Is It Time for Conservation
 

Seems to be a lack of Quality size Fish out there, What is the Reason, Lets here it........................

2 @ 28 is killing the stock and leaving nothing but dinks

Where is the bait?

We had craploads of decent fish around in May and fair in June. The Jersey guys are still hammering away at some fish. Probably some fish way offshore too.

I don't feel we are in a bad stretch (though could be better) but just in our area, a down cycle in availability...

Plenty of fish... from boats.

My son is mating on a charter boat out of Wellfleet this summer..
so far only one "off " day, with smaller bass (28-32 inches) most days they are into 36-40 plus inch fish. Bait in bellys ta boot. day the had the smaller ones, they was empty :huh:
I'll wait for the fall run to decide on the beaches... spring was OK, summer has sucked, and I'm on Semi- Hiatus, for now.. so far, I'm sticking to my seal theory... they are inshore= most striped ones will stay offshore.

2@28 can go... back to one a day..

and yeah, bring back the bait... and the great whites

skunked tonight.
talked to a commercial guy at the launch... started at 2am finished 8pm 3 keepers over 34 for 17 hours of work.

DOGFISH DOGFISH DOGFISH

Trying again tomorrow morning. I personally have caught one keeper and about 50 dinks all year. i dont know.

there are giant size pogies in the habah but no fish seem to care.

I agree with Karl. The 2 a day @ 28" has gotta go first. I've been saying that since it first went into effect.

I'd rather see it brought back up to where it use to be, one at 36" or 34'' at the least. I don't know, would a slot help?

Lack of bait? I haven't fished as much as I'd like this year, but I'm not seeing ANYTHING in my waters.

1 a day is all anyone needs.
period.

still pogies in the bay /but the water temp turned to piss /sooooooooo tha bass moved down the bay /taken up residence on the reefs /// If the pogies stay // we could possibly have a fall run of large in the bay // havn,t had that in 20 years :wid:

The actual impact of a second fish at 28 inches is not as strong as people might think. IIRC something like 14% of anglers with one fish are likely to keep a second (they often don't even catch the second). So pulling the plug on the second take-home bass would be good, the overall impact is light. Looking at it from the other way that some management people toss it around, it might be somewhat benefitial that a mildly higher number of bass are being taken considering the lack of forage fish.

Fix the Forage - Fix the Bass!~ Pogies Forever~!

Plenty of large out around Block Isalnd if you can fish through the doggies.

From what I've been hearing and reading, it seams that the larger fish have stayed to our south on pogies later than usual this year. With the lack of bait that we have now, whenever there is a concentration of bait somewhere, such as adult pogies off jersey, the bass are gonna stay there. Just seams to be the way things work. Some years its the cape, some its rhody, some the elizabeths (well most years its the elizabeths), etc. In my opinion, fixing the bait situation is what will lead to more bigger fish and a more even distribution of those fish. At least things are starting to be done now with the herring situation. Its a start but there's a long way to go.

One a day is plenty IMO. As far as no quality fish, try night fishing(surf) with live eels in the usual areas. There doesn't seem to be a shortage. They may not be the relatively easy ones like the spring fish, but they are out there. Boats are cleaning up regardless. I would only become concerned with the bass stocks if the YOY index begins to trend sharply lower for a number of years. Today's smalls are tomorrow's large. Tomorrow's large spawn more smalls. Simple equation. There's more fish around today than ever. Take it from someone who started fishing in 1980. Its gotten better every year for the last 26 years. Outer cape has slacked off in recent years from the beach, but its not due to a lack of fish IMO.

B/B

I,m just F #$%^&* old

you started in the 80,s /I had already quit by then // yu only think its good now :hidin:

Im seeing ALOT of 20 poundish fish this year, more than ive ever seen. Nothing really over that but for July i cant complain. There are some bigguns still stuck down south, and some heading north chasing the bunker along the s shore here, so u guys shud get a shot at them.

I see the numbers and size of the fish on the OTW striper cup, I want to puke. I cant beleive it has NO effect on the population.

I had originally intended to take part in the OTW tourney, but after seeing the carnage first hand and looking at the numbers I've kind of lost the drive.

Turned back a very OTW worthy fish just a few days ago, and several prior to that. There's something more rewarding about seeing the fish swim off then seeing my name in print.

Hopefully conservation falls back into favor a bit, I think it has faded among striperfisherman in recent years.

I hear ya old man.:laughs: I would have started in 1970, but I was in diapers. 1980 was just about the modern day bottom for the bass stocks though.Some day I'll look back and call today the good old days. :wiggle:

Place a ban on the taking on pogies from South Carolina to Nova Scotia...

Cut Mass' comm. fishing limits to the same as RI...

Get MA, ME, NH, RI, NJ, CT, NC, VA, DE, and NS to all agree to the same limits etc.. and to getting a ban on pogies..

Then we can hear stories of Hab getting 9 50's off the same rock ala Steve Andrus :bounce: :cheers:

Pete - I probably would have thought the same but I really don't think it has a perceptable dent in the fishery. Many of these fish would have come in for the usual reasons anyway and the total numbers would pale compared to one day of fall discarded bass in the Great South Channel. When OTW rewrote the rules more responsibly it did so in a way more compliant by what we all (or at least most) live by today.

Remember, most clubs are different than Newport and don't have C&R promoted heavily in internal club derbys. The OTW tourney is probably the equivalent of 3-4 larger clubs along the coast and most of this fish are weighed in at those other locations so fish weighed in specifically for OTW and nowhere else are mostl likely much less than what is listed on the leader board.

I agree 100% with you, John. For every 1 fish on that board, there are probably 100 released, perhaps more.Guaranteed. People forget its only 1 fish per week.There are less than 150 fish on the board right now over a 2.5 month period.Not many fish relativeley speaking. I think its the documentation that people never get to see that makes the numbers stick out and appear to be a "slaughter". I hope the tourney turns into a big success. I love good, healthy competition. Yes, some people will cheat to get their names on a board, but the concept is an overall good one IMO.Vineyard derby is the same thing, a blast.

There have been more 30 pounders and up landed and kept, from a single beach in any given week in NJ over the past month, than will be entered in the whole OTW.

What gets me is that if you go around to other websites, it's always the NJ guys trashing Mass because of the commercial season. They wield their "gamefish" status like a badge of honor. Yet, when they have a chance to walk off a beach with two cows over their shoulders, they grab the opportunity by the balls. :af: :wall:

All Gamefish status does is give recs the exclusive opportunity to rape the resource.

One a day, 26" to 34" slot, and if you want to cow hunt, get 5 "trophy" tags a season you can put on 40" and above fish--and pick your 40"+ fish wisely 'cause that's all you get. You'll have bass up the arse for generations if you go that way.

Or just go back to one a day at 36"+. Seems to me that worked out pretty well.

I agree 100% pete

let some good fish swim another day and in the long run it feels good to watch them swim as opposed to getting a # attainment pin from OTW


congrats on that good fish sunday night

May I offer a few "anecdotal" observations.

Seals
Colder water inshore than off
No bait
the distance offshore to find fish is not that great, 1/4 to 1/2 mile.
Beach closures equal lack of fishing pressure
30 miles east of Chatham the water is 64 degrees no way that just off the beach and bass and bluefish are out that far
The bait is out there
Global warming is a reality and the climate changes produced as a result are starting to affect New England.
Gas prices limiting excursions over 30 miles by most
It's getting near the dog days and the historical "doldrums" of summer.
Get a boat.

Hope that helps.:rotfl:

Pete what was that Fish On...................

Jim, Call Me...

Any fish released is one more fish out there to be caught again. It's fairly standard thinking of trout and largemouth anglers that you DO NOT see so often in the striper fishery. You almost get jumped on these days if you even mention you release a good fish, which is backwards of how it should be.

It's not the fish killed in the OTW tourney itself, but the strong fish keeping mentality overall that it somewhat represents that hurts this fishery. I'm not anti-competition at all (or against keeping fish, they're tasty...) when it comes to fishing, I was in full no-sleep kill mode during the Spring Surfcasting Challenge as I will be in the fall.

It's far more bad ass to release a big fish back into the surf and keep quiet about it if you ask me. Act like you've been there before...

Prototype, soon to be released Pencil.... :tm:

One fish a day at 36 works fine, so does one at 34, 32, 30, or 28. I don't think you need all those confusing slots and additional regs in addition to a bag limit though. Conservation in its truest sense means protection of habitat. If fish are harvested in moderation, which I believe they currently are, it leaves the equally important part of the equation to fulfill, and that is protection of spawning habitat. The fish are where they are today because of these two principles. Still room for improvement too. Killing fewer of the fish doesn't guarantee us an unlimited lifetime supply of fish without protecting their reproductive capabilities/habitat. You need both, although I realize some people's idea of an ideal fishery would be a 40 or 50 on every cast, it isn't realistic or healthy. The last time it was like that was just prior to the collapse when it was all big fish, back when Clammer was young. :hee: Right now its better due to the wide range of size distribution, as well as the abundance of small fish IMO. To me this is the foundation for a continued healthy fishery.

What impact does all the rain we have been having on the fishing?

not sure but there is alot of crap in the water. sucks when your WOT and there is a log/plank/dead bird right in front of you.

And thats a Fact, Jack. :wave:

It’s always been time for conservation. The Striped bass fishing community as a whole has dropped the ball. You look at any large, popular fishery such as snook, redfish, freshwater trout and bass, etc, and you see what a real catch and release fishery should be. These fish are respected and large kills of these species by REC fishermen are looked down upon by their peers. The striped bass fishery in the Northeast has never gotten out of the tradition of bringing big fish to scale. We almost did after the swoon of the 1970/80s but keeping large fish has become in vogue again. We can’t condemn commercial fishermen as they take only a fraction of what recreational fishermen keep on a regular basis. And you can’t change the commercial mindset as $$$ controls their conscience and in some cases their livelihood. I know what its like to sell bass, I did it before the swoon changed my ways. I hated the feeling when I dropped a nice fish, it changed from losing a 30 pound fish to losing $60.

It’s the recreational mind set that needs to be changed. Police yourselves and your friends. Limit your kill, don’t kill your limit.

I’m a staunch advocate of C&R of large bass (over 30). If you want to keep a fish for the table - a 12-18 lb fish is perfect.

I look at the some of the sharpies that have caught multiple 40s/50s this season – now why would you want to keep any other 50s if you’ve already killed one for the wall? Striped Bass has always been an “ego” fishery, get away from the idea that someone needs to see you weigh in a big girl for ego gratification and then you’ll find it easier to release them. Again, I know, I’ve been there. The C&R of a real cow is gratification that can’t be described and you’ll own that memory forever.

Big Bass fishing from the beach hasn’t been that great anywhere the past few years. You have isolated instances of good fishing but just because fishing is good in one location doesn’t mean the whole coast is lit up. Seals may have screwed up the cape beaches but they’re not the reason other locations are slow.

As Flap says, the bass are there if you have a boat and they’ve never been easier to catch than now. Today’s electronics can put you on a hotspot day after day – and electronics are a great equalizer for those that lack skill and/or experience – drop a live bait on a good set of numbers and hang on - the fish don’t stand a chance.

Here is what I would consider a good policy for the recreational striped bass community on C&R: Set a milestone such as 20, 30, 40, or 50 pounds, keep your first bass at that level, release all others until you either break your personal best or reach your next milestone. If you’re in a fishing club push for allowing Catch, Weigh and Release for the club contest. This will allow members fortunate enough to catch a cow to then enter it into the contest after weighing it, then releasing it alive. How good is that! Only draw back is you have to be with someone who will witness the weight. This rule has allowed many cows to swim again in my club contest.

Good Post DZ - "Set a milestone such as 20, 30, 40, or 50 pounds, keep your first bass at that level, release all others until you either break your personal best or reach your next milestone"

Thats basically my philosophy . First fish at those weights, a handful of pics for the memories, some fillets for friends and I will be happy until the 40 comes along

:kewl: :kewl: :kewl: :kewl:


don't have to worry about me... i don't catch keepers. :tm:

I read with interest the posts regarding OTW Cup ,conservation and other treads regarding (usually) bragging rights each day.Is something that we don't see much in NY ,guys discussing their catch in online forums .At least not to the extend I see here.Not that there is anything wrong with it.......

my curiosity is peeked by something else ,closely related to the subject
I am curios if there are differences in conservation ethics between NY and other anglers in northeast ,most notably NE and NJ.
I tabulate entries for a year long contest that 16 NY surf fishing clubs participate in .The contest is based on honor system in order to encourage catch and release.Fish are almost never killed for the contest itself ,as a little wood plaque on the end of the year is hardly worth a life of a cow bass.
My club (High Hill Striper Club) releases about 99% of the fish each year.Maybe we keep one or two that is in bad shape or cant be revived.Other clubs have similar conservation guidelines and killing fish is (although not forbidden ) is not encouraged.Even my wider circle of fishing friends ,those not affiliated with the clubs ,rarely take a fish home.
If you ever stood along the hundreds shoulder to should in fall Montauk blitzes you would see that not to many fish are laying on the rocks after blitz commences.
Is it not surprising then that a NY entree in OTW thingy is nowhere to be found.
I know my friends would be dead set against any contest or gathering were they must kill fish,regardless if the prize is a boat or a pot of gold.Maybe because our local legend and one of the best known striped bass conservationist ,Fred Schwab is a member of my club ,that we are so anal about conservation.
But I am curios...is this kind of sentiment prevalent in RI & MA ?

The day the bulk of the fishermen here in the northeast realize that the so called "fame" associated with the taking of a large bass and parading it around is severely detrimental to the fishery, will be the day things change for the better. As a community, we celebrate those that slay the big fish and worship them. If a catch of a fish can garner this type of celebrity status, most will take the route of kill and show. If we make it known that the true fisherman look down upon such acts of killing these oversized fish, maybe then we will turn the corner. We need to celebrate those that catch, photograph and release a big girl, and condemn those that kill, parade and fillet them.

I didn't even read DZ's post but I agree with what he said :)

-spence

Very good points and suggestions, DZ. However, I disagree with your suggestion that this is a "catch and release" fishery and we somehow dropped the ball. The fishery is actually one of the greatest stories ever of conservation efforts gone right in fisheries management. Despite all of the different user groups and philosophies,most fish that are taken go to the table in some shape or form. (New England tradition like the cod, lobster and Red Sox). As for the catch and release of the other species, everyone knows that only trolls and gnomes eat freshwater fish.That's why they get thrown back. :wavey:

B/B

as the [old days ]

people are stating ==this is the best they have seen === well ><>< In the eyes of the beholder ;;;

Do you have any idea how many fish were caught [[BEFORE}
think about it === the gear .both fishing & electronic.s were primitive compared todays ;;;

we fished for years with no depth/fish finder == GPS didn,t exist =ranges were the way /or the nit wits dropped markers // & yes we were screwed when we couldn,t see the ranges ;;;

back then there was no closed commercial season & every state had a 16" limit except Maryland which was 12"

Now we have all different size limits / & slots /no slots . commercial /no commercial /closed // open
special sizes for special fishing // I believe & may be mistaking that the trap commercial size is smaller than R&R & Maryland still has a smaller size ;;;

We are just toooooooooooo tuned in to the fish // alot more people , boats , equipment , alot less enforcement // both rec & commercial ;;

back in the days // you had to know how to fish /or you didn,t get [ANY} ::: Now a yahoo trolls a straight bike tube on wire & catches a 60# /marks the spot with GPS & he,s a hi-liner

if it wasn,t for the electronic,s , internet , articles & ego.s ============= the majority would be yanking their chains >>>> & we have more FISH><><><

ya wanna know when it was the best =================== just before they open striper fishing up to keeping fish again // dates I can,t remember / but I do remember schools coming with the tide ,on top in the bay , not on the spring nor the fall run -==just coming ;;
I remember seeing school;s larger than any bluefish school I,ve ever seen ;;
Going to work ;;stop at this point , take a couple . run to the next ,same thing , again & again ;;coming home after work /usually between noon & one // bright sun // different tide / same results ;;; I had to leave the rods at home because I never got to work ><>><><
I know for a fact that you could get two dozen pogies /after work run down the bay // & use them up on 20-40 pound fish ;;;
I also now two guys that ran to a spot at night // & caught more 50,s & 60,s than you thought existed ..

BTW ===== .15 for bulls ,50 for bass under 6 lbs =========== some dealers wouldn,t even buy large ///

This year $3.00 P/P for any fish over 34" ================ I wonder what a 16" bass is worth ...

I guess I,m done ///just a fat ass [Belly]Clammer :musc:

Backbeach,
My statement "dropping the ball" was in reference to the great comeback that those past conservation measures produced. I'm just concerned that we've stopped doing what helped restore the fishery. We're resorting back to the good old days. Your point is well taken.

Clamma - what can I add - you said it all - ranges? What are they?

It's so easy now...

DZ