9/11/01
 

Been watching the History Channel's portrayal of 9/11 for the last week. Mostly about the horrendous attack and the Heros. Tonight i saw an HBO special on 9/11 which included a factual narration by Juliani, but most important it was about the people who were affected on that day as they told their stories. No holds barred you could feel the pain they went through, and are going through. For some reason as they showed the 767 hitting the North Tower this time, i felt this unbelievable anger and yelled right out loud ,those freekin bastages.:af:
We are at war with a determined enemy that has no respect whatsoever for human life, we should remember that everyday, and never forget what they did ,and what they will continue to do.

Alot of people have already forgotten :(

Not Trying to start a flame war, just some thoughts.
 

9/11/01---> 5 years later, Osama running loose, mess in Afghanastan, bigger mess in Iraq, and gonna be another mess in Iran, and the rest of the middle east as well.
Americans have not changed there way of life too much, most, (like myself) piss and moan about fuel costs, etc. But, we still work our jobs, buy our groceries, and lead our lives pretty much the same.
And, like Skip said, most have forgotten..

12/07/41----Pearl Harbor Day... US declares war, not only on the attackers, Japan, but also on Germany,and Italy. MUCH SACRIFICE at home as well as those in the military, Automakers suspend production of cars, Major Rationing of everything, most males 35 years old and under, who are not working defense manufacturing jobs are in the service. Japanese Americans, are rounded up and encamped. Women, whose husbands are overseas, are pressed into working in the defense factories.. all major sports are shut down, players pressed into service, hollywood types as well..
4 and 1/2 years later.. WW2 over, Hitler dead, Japan overthrown, Mussolini, gone. Tremendous sacrifice and unity of us and the other countries we allied with...
Woud Not fly today, in this PC world.. ..
Would it? :huh:....

Interesting view as always Karl ..... Those days may return out of necessity someday in the near future.

Well said Karl...

After 9/11 what did Bush say? Keep shopping.

We do face a serious challenge, but this country has risen to great challenges before. They say this war is different, but reading history it looks like every war has been different.

9/11 certainly shocked and scared the hell out of us all, but it made me think more about what I believe makes America great. This is where I think we should get our passion to solve our problems...not from emotionally charged lessons of the past. Most people tend to use poor judgement when full of rage...

That's my perspective at least.

-spence

Like who? If it's a lot of people this should be easy...

-spence

i for one will NEVER forget.

I find it hard to believe that someone like you would support an all out war on terroism. You would support an all out war against Radical Islam and Terroists??? The people in the US today are a bunch of fairys and would never embrace a full scale WWII type war, even if it meant totally wiping out Terror. They would rather apease the Terroists rather than defeat them.

But hey, that's the liberal way!

I think I'm just going to let this broad and absurd generalization stand on it's own...

Nice job Skip :claps:

-spence

Some people choose to fight some people choose to study nuances ad nauseum.

I had security clearance and went into ground zero while it was still burning. I will never forget!

Or better yet, crack a history book or two...open our eyes to reality and execute a pragmatic strategy that improves the effectiveness when we do choose to fight.

Most importantly

Let idiology guide our actions, not dictate them.

And Knight, was driving by the pit just the other week. Gave me freaking goosebumps.

-spence

I described you pretty well aye? You and your liberal friends would never support a full scale war on terror, and you know it! The "fairys' i was refering to is the left wing of this country, you guys are all about appeasment and you know it. Why can't you just admit it?

Skip, you have no clue as to what you're talking about.

-spence

you two go to your corners please and stop hijacking justplugit's thread:smash:

Skip started it :hidin:

-spence

:spin: Archie Bunker Lives :wavey:

thanks slip...
 

those two guys need to row a boat together....:spin:
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post september 11th... i cannot ever forget because the illness i felt
or sickness.....disturbance in the force if you like....hit me like a ton of bricks
....and i had to leave work.... it shattered me like a mirror.
SO,, (sigh) i have a much different view.....
i have the ultimate respect for what our military has done thus far.
but when you read about the Saudi Cleric giving Osama his blessing

to k i l l 10 million Americans to balance the scales of justice....in A genocidal war...
(thats the number they figure we've killed over time)
it has to make you think that by that idea alone..... there are much larger than
9-11 events planned..... and if this were to happen.... does that entitle us to respond with nukes . :lasso:
i say yes.:angel:

I think they've made their point that this isn't a matter open to negotitation. The latest message is convert to Islam or die. It seems the only choice in the matter is to apply as much force as necessary. If its nuclear force that is required then that is what is required. Anyone denying that a portion of America does not have the stomach to apply that force are well,......in denial. There will be American losses and sacrifices must be made to win the biggest war this country has probably ever been involved in.

Thank you Doctor Evil :laughs:

Funny........I thought Americans stood together against Evil. But I guess that was in the old days.

Too much doom and gloom for me. I'd rather we snuff the flame than douse it with kerosene.

Global terrorisim isn't some doomsday cult. The actions of the entire world directly influence and empower it's violent proponents. We all make the bed in which we sleep.

-spence

You`re not funny just sad :usd:

Wow thats mature. How abut this one: I know you are but what am I?.............give me a break. I just remembered what I find most interesting about your posts.....nothing.

Back to the thread...I'd certainly agree that the enemy is determined.

But as for respect for human life, I'd throw on the table the notion that in the name of attacking military targets in Iraq and Afghanistan we've probably killed more innocent women and children that in all al Qaeda attacks combined.

This isn't to say your statement isn't true, but from an Islamic perspective...do we?

-spence

I`m impressed.... anything reasonable or rational from you does`nt exist.

I'm thoroughly devastated.

............. //// ?????

Bump :)

-spence

Ok...deep breath not...peace to the defender of all things right :love:

[QUOTE=spence]

But as for respect for human life, I'd throw on the table the notion that in the name of attacking military targets in Iraq and Afghanistan we've probably killed more innocent women and children that in all al Qaeda attacks combined.

This isn't to say your statement isn't true, but from an Islamic perspective...do we?
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i highly doubt that if combined ALL al qaeda induced casualties worldwide that we could possibily come close. when ever a few civilians are killed over there the left press seems to spout.
as far as respect for human life- yeah right! they're freekin' animals, plain and simple.

Well, from what I've read between the Pentagon and the human rights groups the range in Iraq along could be anywhere from the low tens of thousands to the high tens of thousands.

Even if you take a conservative approach, it's still probably 3X what al Qaeda has killed in major attacks.

All for a war Bin Laden said we would wage well before the fact was "decided" by the US Government...and that by most accounts was poorly justified and pathetically planned.

Again, the point is from an Islamic perspective, and even a moderate one at that...do we look like we respect human life?

This is important because just as some here use the lack of respect for human life as a motivator to go after terrorists, so do the terrorists use it against us to gain sympathy from the moderate Islamic community.

-spence

can you please verify those #'s, show sources. no way in the tens of thousands in iraq.

A moderate perspective understands the difference between targeted civilians, and collateral casualties occuring in a miltary operation.

But what specific war are you refering to when you say "poorly justified"? Iraq, Afghanistan or buth?

Bin Laden wasn't making a lucky guess when he said we would go to war after he attacked our country that was a given as it should be.

And exactly who should "decide" when we go to war?

The body count of civilian casualities in Iraq appears to be approaching 50,000 according to the website Iraq Body Count which uses only deaths reported in news stories with no statistics or estimations involved. So the ratio of innocent killing seems to be tipped in our favor for now.

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

credible source?? reported in whose news stories?? jazzera(sp)?? the lebanon liberal?? al qaeda weeky?? stories verified by?? muslim digest??

If I'm not mistaken the vast majority of those civilian casualties were targeted by insurgents and not collateral damage of American actions.

I think that site does track both. While I wouldn't say it's reasonable to blame us for insurgent deaths, which are quite substantial, it is reasonable to say the lack of a post war plan has contributed heavily to the deaths from insurgents and general violence.

As Colin Powell said, you break it you own it.

As for deaths attributed to US action alone, do a google search and you can find various articles. To say that thousands haven't been killed given the massive use of firepower doesn't really make any sense...unless you beleve our smart bombs are a lot smarter than we realize.

-spence

That's the I'm my big comfy couch in New England gonna grill me a 14 ounce steak for dinner line of thinking.

Iraq.

Well, Bin laden wasn't in Iraq (not sure if this is new to you?), but he did tell the Islamic community that Bush would indeed invade Iraq and humiliate the Iraqi people.

Given that the WMD issue is believed to be a sham worldwide, and that the utter lack of a post war plan has contributed to more Iraqi suffering and violence...

He seems to have built a lot of credibility among the already angered Muslims of the world...in fact invading Iraq how we have has done more to empower his vision for the world than perhaps any other forseeable action the US could have taken.

-spence

BINGO Karl, i could hear it from here. :)
My intention for starting the thread was not to start more political rebel rousing on the site, but to express my anger and remind myself,as well as others, of that horrific day planned and executed against our civilian population. We say we remember, but speaking for myself i find it's way in the back of my mind. It shouldn't be, as i lost 2 good young friends in the towers, as some on our site have also lost others.My son in law is an American Airlines pilot who on that morning left Kennedy in his 767 with a full tank at 8 am flying non stop tp LAX.

We sat by phone with my daughter and 2 Grandaughters until 11:30 am until we found out he was safe after rumors that there were still additional hijacked planes in the air.That alone should make me remember everyday, but it doesn't. Then to see once again how they flew those planes into the innocents, ON PURPOSE ,and seeing the horrible way they died, unbelievable, reminded me of what this enemy is all about.


Someone mentioned emotion, well the emotion we felt in the days following 9-11 , which united us in our resolve,should be the same emotion to bring us together now in defeating these crazies. Sacrafices will be needed, maybe even more than were required for WW2, but if we are to defeat them and have our children and grandchildren know what freedom really is, we will have to remember all the time and unite in our efforts.