Born Again Christians
 

Do you think that someone who is a "born Again Christian" and beleives that that bible is the actual factual word of God and lives and breathes everything in that book, including the concept of the world was created in six days, can really be effective as a world leader?

George Bush does.

In a world as complex as ours, with so many different cultures, religions and ethnicities where values of life vary to such a great extent and in the world political arena you have to deal with the devil, can these types of people truly be judged to be in touch with these realities so that they may make effective leaders.

I don't. I think the born again thing is absurd in the extreme. :uhuh:

got some bac friends- seems to me they like the no-strings, here are all the answers, stay in the box approach.

i go out of my way to tick off jesus jumpers.

freakin brainwahsed robots.

Flap, are you saying GWB is a born agian christian? thats incorrect.

I am an atheist at best, or more so i believe that the "earth" is a god to worship, but what you are saying is that people with different religious views than me cannot be rational, effective people.

SO lets explore that, all christains ( I was raised and educated in catholic schools through high school) believe that a man was born in a little town, he was a son of god, killed and then came back to life and then now people's sins are forgiven if they beleive in him and then they can go to heaven. How wacked is that?
In my mind doenst follow the laws of nature at all. So where do you draw the line with what is "in touch with reality"???
In my mind, anyone who has faith in a higher power is not in touch with reality, since there is NO reality to prove. There is only faith. Cant prove faith.

I don't believe Bush has ever completed "born again" certification...but he does like people to think he is. Obviously this is used well by his political advisors.

Personally I don't have any issue with evangelicals, as long as they keep a firewall between their faith and politics and keep it to themselves. But some of the widespread beliefs shared in this community I do find quite difficult to comprehend or just simply outdated, bigoted and very intolerant.

Could a born again be a good leader? I'm sure they could...but you'd have to consider that most of those in politics professing to be motivated by Christ rarely, if ever actually behave like Jesus would.

The Haggert thing was the icing on the cake. For a man, in all likelyhood a gay man to speak of this darkness that's tormented him his entire life is just pathetic. It seems he was a natural leader, image what he could have done to improve the world had his life not been weighed down by this anchor of self-hate.

Lord only know how his kids minds work. How much you want to bet they off some gay kid at school as payback for this "sickness" ruining their trust funds?

-spence

I am anti-organized religeon.

Funny thing is that the "family business" is the catholic church.
Uncle is a Catholic Priest in Canada.
Grandfather quit the seminary.
Great uncle was a priest
lots of other aunts that were sisters, and uncles that were priests all across the family tree.

I was raised catholic but by highschool religion class I had already seen the flaws in the teachings that they were preaching acceptance but only those we want to accept.
bah.

I was forced to go to church for quite some time.
then I saw the part about jesus saying the church was the people not the place. thats when I was allowed to stop.

the more you learn about something the more you find you dont know about that something.... like fishing for striped bass.

take physics.
the further you go the more you find contradictions to the theorems and laws that you learned in the previous course. until you finally get to the end of coursework and are faced with the "ok, now you figure it out cause we cant"

prayers needed...people on this thread

Can't ya feel the love :)

America is a diverse country, there's no doubting that.

-spence

Christianity is about core values. If anyone uses those values to make decisions for the good of all there should be no problems, in fact it could lead to utopia. The problems arise when someone hides behind those values, spreads the word of those values and then turns around and makes decisions that are the complete opposite to only benefit a few.. that is a real problem & that is where we are today.

That man may claim to be a Christian, but his actions don't show it. Neither is he a scientist. As for born-again, maybe the world'd be better off if he wasn't born at all.

OH OH John ... gonna need another forum :eyes: soon.

Fundamentalism is what is wrong with the world....It hobbles nations and is at odds with modernity, tolerance and prosperity.

It's why some societies can exist for a thousand years and still not be able to provide basic infrastructure to support an economy that enables them to move into the first world.

Secularism - the separation of church and state – and freedom of religion are big parts of what has enabled this country to be able to have a robot on Mars while others are dragging people out of their homes and cutting their heads off over a split on who was the true heir to Allah.

We are an increasingly centrist nation and this week – like 1992 – was another confirmation of our true nature. In this country the power of the center is felt at the polls and both sides are alternately shocked – though they should not be. Moderates do not spend time espousing their positions or trying to convert the wackos on the far left and the far right, but they are by far the majority – it’s quite evident. Each time we turn too far to the left or too far to the right, we take a giant step back to the center – thank God.

I don't think fundamentalisim is the problem...it's the political expression of fundamentalisim.

-spence

Alec? Is that you?

yep.. or it could go in the new one.. politics and religion.. kinda the same,.. hot button topics...
meybe politics, religion, and VS threads.. all seem to end up in a shoot out.

What?
 

Utopia, oh God.............

Isn't fundamentalism the verbal or physical expression of a fundamentalists? So fundamentalism is in all liklihood an overt physical act.

I think if Gore was elected we would have had a pefect world by now, no doubt about it.:bl2:

One more thing
 

I think born again christians have the potential to be the biggest hypocrites in the world.

Have you heard.................................. the word

But the basis for christianity is....forgiveness, no? So you can only be a hippocrtite if you do not forgive.

recommended website for fundamentalist muslims:

http://www.masturbateforpeace.com

]

How the hell do you find this stuff?!

I let my guard down, no more religious chats.

Spare the rod...and the reel, the plugs, (no chunkin', though)...

Things were so much simpler when people were ignorant. Some people still are.

talk about hitting the nail on the head :tm:

The ignorant shall inherit the Earth!!!
WAIT A MINUTE!!! They have already!!!
:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

:bl2: :laughs:

How many of you get the "Sportsman"s Channel" on your cable or sattelite tv? Have your ever seen the amount of born agains on those shows. Son Country Outdoors where the cross on calgary is surrounded by elk and deer in the sunset. The Sportsman's Bible, In camo cover, offered by the (?) Rev. Jimmy Sites, camo clothing that has the cross situated in the pattern. Okay, let's kill that deer or that bear or take out a monkey with a blow gun and poison ( "the Rev. Jimmy Sites did that) "thank you Jesus, thank you lord" as they shoot this moose and show it standing there, blood gushing out it's mouth and nostrils like a fire hose and then slowly falling to the ground. Don't get me wrong, I am not against hunting in any way but to connect Jesus and taking out a bear from a stand with a bow while the bear is baited in with Trix cereal and mini marshmallows while praising the Lord is just creepy.

Reality takes a back seat with these people. 'The Rapture" has them all in a tither of giddy joy. Yippee were all gonna die in a giant cataclyism" and then rise to heaven. (Don't forget your your Mathews Solo-Cam while your rising up into the clouds and angels are singing. Oh yeah, send me fifty bucks and God will give you wealth beyond your wildest dreams!

Maggots like Jimmy Swaggart, that two timing, drug using whore monger, have people desperate for help believing that they have the answer, for a donation of course. Nascar, camo bibles, TV Evangelists out getting Crystal Meth and "massages from Gay prostitutes.

Born agains, like all religious exremeism has this world totally F&cked up. Whatever happened to just caring for one another, respecting one another and just being a decent human being?

How the hell did we get to this?

How about the guy in the morning infomercials selling 'miracle spring water'
what a scam... too many people use religion as a way to make money and justify their life...

Born okay the first time, thanks! :happy:

Only a Matthews will get you into heaven, according to the people who own them. :jester:

Being the sinner that I am, I hunt with bowtech.

I own 'God's Country' camo it not only does it kill more deer for me but it represents what I beleive. What do you have against Jesus? Its obviouse you don't know him. Faith works for people who practice it,,,Mattews bows is a fine example. Theres always that 10% in everything.

http://www.godscountrycamouflage.com/
http://christianoutdoorsman.com/

Seems some people are more offended by Christians then they are by criminals.........go figure.

dude ... I am laughing outloud here.
I really hope you are all joking.

I believe in the flying spaghetti monster.

What I was struck by when I worked digging graves was that more people believed in ghosts than god.

Edgar Allen Poe said: "I never believed in Ghosts but I've been afraid of them all my life".

Ahh you should never talk about religion or politics

That said am I right thinking that bin ladin is close to Hitler in thinking???
(kill all that do not believe in their religion)????

:0

Hitler wanted to kill all the non-Aryans.

Bin Laden only wants to kill the infidels - and convert the world to Islam at the point of the sword. We are all welcome to convert and join the Mujahideen.

That's the message to the most radical of his followers - but he's a pragmatist in a lot of ways, he does not believe he can conquer the world. Realistically, he'd be more than pleased to drive the Saudi Royal Family from power and oust the infidels from the three cities holy to the Islamic faith: Mecca, Medina, and Jerusalem...

He might succeed with respect to the Saudi Royal Family and Mecca and Medina - but you'll see the Four Horsemen before Jerusalem falls.

I do know Jesus. I was touched by the hand of God in 1993. I was 37 and in very big trouble health wise. Being told I would need a heart transplant to survive. On the morning of my 37th birthday while alone in my ICU room with oxygen and various intraveanous needles in my arms and machine whirring I asked God to help me and through the voice of my brother, who was KIA in VietNam in 69' I was told that I would recover, fully, which I did. I was surrounded by a haze of light and serene calm at 3 in the morning and I was given an understanding,a message I believe by God of what he truly wants from us and in it's simplicity I live my life. I know him better than you do my friend and each day thank him for everything he gives us. For years I thought I must have been saved for a purpose but really it was quite simple.

His message to me, and it is a simple one, is to take care of each other, respect each other and live a good life. That's all he wants. He doesn't want us to grovel before him or to make every move on his behalf or force his worship on anyone, just to be good to each other and let each and every person be in peace.

He knows we all falter and he knows we go astray but he loves us all and just wants us to know he is there when we need. I have my demons too, it's part of life and he is okay with that. The experience drew me toward what is truly, what you would call his grace. The sun rising over he sea, the shade of a tree on a sunny day and the clarity of a newborn baby's eyes, these are the things he wants us to share that he made for us.

The bible holds no real meaning, it's words are those of men through the ages who have corrupted the meaning in words for their own sake and control of others, his true church surrounds you each day as you go about your life, nothing he made is perfect thus we get sick, we succumb to addiction or desease and we make the wrong choices sometimes. He understands but doesn't want or need us to prostrate ourselves and center our life around what some men have done to convince us of his presence. He is simply there and knowing we know that and living simply in respect and caring for one another is enough to him. Trust me I know.