How would all the "new" boat guys be doing from the surf???
 

I can't help but think their opinion of the season might not be the same...

I am in no way trying to diminish there boat accomplishments... Just curious.

it is a given that it is a bit easier to get yourself on top of big fish, or just more numbers of fish, if you have access to a boat. however, saying this, there is still a lot of skill involved in banging a big fish, no matter where you are fishing. i don't have much experience boat fishing, and i've been on the water in the middle of a school of fish and hooking nice fish, but have had guys picking out BIG fish right under my nose.

just as there are certain techniques that are learned while fishing the beaches to entice fish, or to know where the fish will be at certain tides, these same skills are needed to be successful while fishing from the boat.

all fisherman, boat or surf, who are successful at catching BIG fish are to be commended for their skills.

Probably struggling with a few good nights thrown in, but really who gives a %$%$%$%$?

The guys that are catching are catching well, boat or surf.

Personally for me its all about hustle. I think the guys doing the damage off the fiberglass jettys would still be putting a dent in them if they were shore bound. Because they would still hustle.

I agree with Vic 100%.

All good stuff, and I agree. But not what I was asking...

I KNOW that these guys were excellent in the surf. Right now they are high on life. There fishing has never been better. "LONG LIVE THE POGIE!!!"

The crux of my question is I highly doubt they woul be having such a great year if still bound to shore. WOuld they be doing better than average? most likely, the cream always rises to the top. But would they be living a dream? I highly doubt it.

I can think of a few VERY good surfcaster that hustle w/the best of them that are having a slow year. You can't catch what is not there. A good night here or there, but nothing consistant.

June in the surf
 

So far, june has been a bust in the surf!

I fish the surf!!! Just from the ocean side not the beach side.

I don't do alot of trolling but where's there's white water or a rip, I'll be throwing somethin.
A boat is no different than the beach, right place, right time, right bait, right presentation = fish

exactly......but why compare???
adapt if you want to or are able....I'd fish shore and boat if I could afford it or wanted it enough
your right it is all about putting it in front of the fish...you can't fool a fish that is not there....

I hear ya on the nothing consistant but by the same token I know 2 who crocked fish yesterday land based.

Its a total dif ball game with the big bait, they arent scrounging for crabs and lobstahs anymore. I struggling from the surf as well, but I hitting points all over. Gotta adapt.. You know I'm pounding rocks and or sand 5 nights a week. I got out on the bay last weekend and we targeted fish pretty much at will.. Its the case of cant there from here... I'm trying Im struggling just the same. But at times I'm wishing I knew how to get out to some of the points in the bay where we're hooking up, Im going back landbased and trying to duplicate the success.. comin' up with nada, still giving it a go.

Unless they Knew what they were doing it would be the same...it takes alot of commitment to exell at either one...I know that now, why more of you are not trying the Bay is beyond me.

I am having a tough time like most of you from the shore and im going out 2 times a day before work after work and at times during work. Except for the pogies im using the same bait as everyone else and still not producing very much.When i go out in the yak i can get to places I wouldnt be able to get to from shore.I think the fish are just moving with the bait to no surprise it is just a matter of time before us shore guys start banging nice sized fish be patient.

Where the good boat fish are being caught is pretty much in the surf, just casting into it instead of out of the surf. Ya gotta find the fish first no matter if ya got a boat or are pounding the surf.

Don't sweat it jf. A "used to" surfcaster is still a boat fisherman

What's a boat? ;)

well I took to the soap box this winter about the pogie thing and felt pretty strongly about a couple of things. To recap, my points have all come true- Big pogies in the bay will equal big bass in the bay. Big bass that might have otherwise been cruising around close to shore are far and few between where they usually would be without the presence of pogies and there was going to be world class fishing FROM BOATS.



However, my analysis on the current surf conditions is mostly based on talking to those who have been really hitting the surf hard. I havent been hitting it hard due to my life's responsibilities, but when i do go out its hard to find quality fish.

ADAPT? of course. Because of the bunker, to succeed from shore you HAVE to fish in the bay. Its not the glorious surf, but if you want s-hit, you gotta look for flies.

but to answer the question, my season from shore is pathetic.

Same here
 

Not getting a sniff at the shore, thought I'm going out now for a few hours (w/ eels, no less.)

Long post ahead. ADD cases should skip ahead. :btu:

I'll say it (and it's just my opinion, please don't take offense), since a lot of guys dance around it:

It's harder from the surf. It almost always is. This year it's been a glaring difference for a lot of guys. The boat is just a lot easier. Not there's anything wrong with that. Find pogies, turn on livewell, liveline pogies, catch bass over 20 pounds. I don't mean to diminish that way of fishing, to be sure I've done it a lot this year because it's fun and it works. It should also be said, catching truly large bass (in particular consistently) from the boat is a separate deal, just like it is from shore. But "good" fish from the boat, 20 pounds and above? Not too hard this year, as long as you have a snag hook.

My biggest fish are from the boat this year. I've caught from the shore, and got some good fish, but it's been hard, for me at least.

I'm very fortunate in that I can typically fish anyway I choose. I've got access to a 24 foot top of the line center console sitting in a slip and a couple other smaller boats. Or I can drive to my favorite fishing spots. I enjoy both, do both, appreciate both, etc. I haven't converted recently one way or the other. I could survive without the boat, but I can't live without the surf.

One thing I've learned over the years, is catching fish from the boat is different then catching from shore, even when working what feels to be the exact same water. I've tried to catch fish from shore at night from the same water I was fishing successfully by boat that morning and they simply weren't there or they didn't want any part of what I was doing. I've often called in to friends on shore about fish I though they could get into. They couldn't. It takes a long time to "see" what shore anglers can actually reach. Many times over the years I've discovered something in the boat and immediately couldn't WAIT to try and fish it from shore, only to discover even my best hero cast couldn't reach it, or only nicked the edge of the best structure. This happens more often then most boaters would admit. I've also discovered incredible water that is better fished from shore because I simply couldn't get the boat in close enough.

It's just different. It's easy to have a "the grass is always greener" perspective from the surf. I still often do. As I said, I have a boat to use anytime. I choose to go from the surf a lot of the time. I love it, and I can't picture ever letting it go.

There's no question in my mind though, that if someone told me my life depended on catching a 20+ pounder in the next 2 hours, I'd be racing to the dock, not the shoreline. Fishing from shore is hard. And that's the way it should be. That's what I love about it.

It's been interesting to watch this website evolve. I feel like there used to be much more of a surfcasting element here.

I think the bottom line is to fish in the ways that make you happy. :cheers:

I agree 100%with you pete.

Boats and bait make catching big fish easier.......but not easy. Fishing is for fun and we are each free to pursue that enjoyment however we choose. The trouble begins when we use fishing for something else other than fun. Fishing should be about you versus the fish, not you versus everyone else. Looked at that way, what the other guy is doing becomes unimportant.

Dennis, Dennis, Dennis, :smash: The boat thingy is what you take to go across the water to get to Block Island. Hey, that might make you a boat fisherman. :shocked:

Pete G summed it up pretty well I think. But I will add this perspective as I kind of look at it this way with a different analogy to trout fishing. If you want to catch a cubic buttload of trout right now you could go to most of the trout ponds which you are familiar, get yourself a smalll craft, some jars of powerbait, drop lines down below the thermocline, drift around your structure and dropoffs, pop down some Brewski's to keep the energy and enthusiasm level up :cheers: and become a commercial trout fisherman :musc: . There are many other possibilities as well included trolling deep and shore fishing the dropoff close to shore. Whatever. :wiggle: Yet there are still some guys who would only consider going to the rivers and streams of New England to fly-fish and that is what they will do regardless of how the fishing for the powerbait guy is in Lake Talupa, and the question of how the season is going for the Lake Talupa guys is kind of irrelevant.

It's really a matter of preference and telling a guy who is in the surf working the backwash from a stretch of boulders in RI or an outlet of a trough on the Cape Beach when the tide stage is just to his liking for a nice current to set up, how the boat guys are doing is nice but kind of an irrelevant piece of information, because he is a Surf Fisherman. Some surf fisherman with fly rods couldn't care less about the surf fisherman who uses bait, plugs or eels, just like the guy on the Wood River this evening who will be casting to a rising fish, the powerbait results on the Lake don't really enter into his brain.

I offer none of my preference as that is up to each individual to decide what is most favorable to him and how he wants to spend his time.

Ed

Other than Eben, no one has really mentioned it but, the exact same discussions were taking place last fall. Boat guys were doing well in the bay. As DZ said on another thread, its a cycle.
From the shore, you have to change your focus. Another month or two, the peanuts will show up, that will result in schools of bass an blues along the coast, not huge fish, but good numbers. These big fish may disperse along the shore, they may not. They may head straight up north. My shore season has not been that good, but I look at Jim S's fish. Thats a hell of fish any time of year. I also think we have a number fo regular S-Br's that are in boats and post regularly. If these guys were not posting, I'd have no idea that there were so many fish around.

I've had much better luck from the boat so far this year. I've caught fish when there were no birds present, nothing was showing on the fishfinder and there were no other boats anywhere near us. My shore "hotspots" haven't been that at all. I haven't been out much, though. All of my fish have been caught on plugs and have been pretty big. I'm hoping to get out from shore a few times in the next week, and may try bait even though I prefer to fish plugs. Who knows, maybe it will turn on and be great or it might just take some hard work. If you put in the time, you'll catch some good fish.

[QUOTE=Ed B;500398]Hey, that might make you a boat fisherman. :shocked:

Yikes! You’re right Ed. From now on I’m flying to Block (not).

To actually help answer J’s question: There have been very few instances in my surfcasting life where great boat fishing has equated to just as good surf fishing. More often than not it is just the opposite.
To site just a few examples: I’ve been on Block where the boat guys have done a good number all around the island and the surf gang has fished a virtual wasteland at the same time. Another time at Montauk (Shagwong) I fished from a boat (I know, I know, Blasphemy) and took big bass on every pass just a hundred or so yards off the beach. An hour later I hit that same beach expecting that the surf guys were mauling the bass - 50 guys and not a single bass taken from that beach. Special sets of circumstances make up great surfcasting – they don’t occur very often and that makes you appreciate them more. My surfcasting size and catch rate hasn’t been that great this season (until last night). But I’m still having a great time “practicing”. Our fish will come.

[QUOTE=DZ;500422]I've seen the same thing on the cape, and have said this before....when surf and boat fishing were producing disproportionatley to one another, we opted for the more productive method. You have to adapt, or it will become a long season on the sidelines waiting for things to come around. This season seems to be shaping up just like last so far. We had a run of large fish from mid may to early june in the surf, now a lull. I have to believe another batch will be coming at some point if they aren't already here. If it does shape up like last year, the large fish will be sporadic for the surf guys. The "new" boat guys are really the fishermen who are adapting and utilizing the best method for catching large fish right now. That means they are serious about results, regardless of the method. If you plan to stick with strictly surf fishing, you will experience droughts, even when the fishing is good, its just the way it works.

Like Eben & RIjimmy said, this exact pattern occurred last year from June on with the pogies acting like a "bass vacuum" in the Bay and most of the surf guys starving for consistent action.

If I remember, most guys at the end of last year said it was an overall very poor surf season.

It's just happening again. However, if all of these pogies ever start to spead down to the surf in decent numbers we'll enjoy the bonanza as well.

Like DZ said, it's just a cycle and, until then, it's fun "practicing".

Interestingly enough, the shore guys from S-B and NIB's Jersey Club are strongly leading the Striper Cup. While it may be tough out there for the shore guy, the shore guy is going large... And those fish are coming from all over, the Ditch, the River, Narr Bay most of the usual haunts.

I'd be doing great from the surf if I was hitting it like I used to. Need to do your homework guys, stop surfing the net and get out there, put your feelers out, try different things, there are large to be had boat and surf, just need to stop chasing reports and fish that were there yesterday, they have fins ya know. Attack them with the bait they want and your success will increase greatly. This is the year for large, there are a lot of guys out there that have been nailing large, you just ain't hearing about it, myself is one of them, get out there, put in your time, do your research and it WILL pay off.
Good luck/ and F^%$#@ the net........:smash:

It is interesting that many of the guys on shore that have gone large have also enjoyed some fairly extended stretches of the skunk. I know Jimmy Sly (sorry Jim) was on a horrible stretch of fishing prior to making a change and discovering large.

We'll have to see how the season develops to see if it stays this way. I found a lot of pogies on shore (no bass on them though, that I could find :mad: ) yesterday and they aren't in the Bay. Surf guys may have their time yet...

We are struggling this yr.At best I had 3 30's by this time last yr 2 where fishing an one was a blitz fish.Which is fishing but a hell of a lot easier.The 2 big spring storms messed up the bay.It's still not right.. I think that the storms flushed alot of our quality Hudson river holdovers out..`
The Chess bay fish are here.I love em with the purple stripe..
The boat guys are beatin the snot out of em.
Lots of mid to high40's an a few 50's..
I think I have to go fire up the engine..
The winds an weather patterns have not been condusive to bringin the bait an the fish in at the same time.The other night in 10 ft waves we watched em (Bunkers) getting pounded just out of range.There is still time.We should have the right winds this week.
BTW,On the OTW contest.. We have a lot of guys that have filled out the board these fish won't hold up..U guys have more quality numbers which will matter in the end..NICE JOB..

Pete is right on In one aspect.I can't tell ya how many times the boat guys have told me they had em in 7 ft of water.I chased that chiken a ton of times.Two big boat tournaments where taken right off the beach 300 yds off some hard structure.Large fish.high forties.We have no shot at em..It's frustrating when u come off a all nighter an glass a boat just off shore to watch em boat large..
have a 19 fter w/ 115 i just don't have the desire..
I'm a surf junky..I'll save the boat for when I can't do it anymore..

I have a boat and I love to surfcast. I just need time to fish. I don't care how I fish I just want the chance. CuttyHunk did not reviel her secrets to me last week so I think it's time to hit Boston Harbor and my best T&W spots.

All the things we won't do serve to lessen our chances....
I talked to somebody who fishes from a boat, but they don't like to go "way up" in the bay where there are turds floating and the scenery is less than bucolic - the guy said he knew there were big fish in the upper bay, but he did not want to spend his free time there...
The guys whose primary objective is big fish divorce themselves from the sentimentality of purists - they pursue trophy bass by whatever means is most effective.
Some of us won't do the live eel thing; some of us are surf only, fly fishing only, some people won’t fish in a crowd, some won’t fish the bay, etc, etc. There's nothing wrong with be a purist, but there is a downside that needs to be accepted - the price of purism.

Right on the money Joe, I started flyfishing again, first time out with the wand yesterday and did better than I ever did with sluggos, I think I am a better fly fisherman than plug guy, I didn't really realize that until yesterday flaoting across white sand and gin clear water and I was able to tempt a 23 pound bass in the middle of a hundred schoolies to take the fly before they got to it. I fly fished only for stripers for 11 years, yesterday I realized how much I loved it and missed it. I put down the flyrod becuase after that 11 years 32 pounds was the biggest bass I could muster. Now I realize that was a real accomplishment given the size of the fly and the tippet strength.

Big bass guys target them with live and dead bait because that is what has always been the ticket to success and, like you say care not so much for where and when in most cases as long as the rsults come. Some people fish seeking the beautiful places and size of the quarry is not as important as the time and place. Some, like myself, scorn live and dead bait for the challenge of having a big fish take a piece of wood or plastic that I made come alive through my hands and extended through to the rod. Whatever method you choose, plugs only, fly fishing, wire line jigging or live or dead bait there is an art to them all and the most important thing is that you enjoy whatever method you choose regardless of the result and if that big slob comes along and eats your chunk, your fly or your plug it only adds to the total experience. Fishing is supposed to be fun first and foremost, how often we forget that.

great point bill

access is one issue in the bay

if access was as easy in the bay as it is in other places, things would be a lot easier

no problem pete


things were tough for two weeks...three to four nights a week..with the skunk...that has not happened in a long time

took a look back at what I was doing, where I was fishing and made a change

being adaptable in the surf is half the battle, the other half is access

That makes me wonder what the numbers are .. I bet the shore guys ,way out number the boat guys in the tourney . I'll never argue skills, a shore guy vs a boat guy ,, I've done a boulder drift down a shore line with Numbskull . If you don't know what your doing, you'll be swimming ..

[QUOTE=Back Beach;500428]that's not even fair to say. that's an at least $4000+ ""adjustment"" just to gt the ""adjustment"" in the water. having a boat is not an adjustment, it's a luxury. one that many guys cant afford. to say surf guys aren't serious about results because of that is a pretty bold statement. i MIGHT get out on a boat :drool: next weekend and couldn't be more excited. especially after spending almost 200 hours fishing and hiking to spots in the past two weeks. with no results. i have tried just about everything in my arsenal to avail. despite knowing what the local fish are feeding on. any way.. buying a new rod and reel and some new baits or whatever is an adjustment. getting a boat is in a completely different ball park.

i'll be honest, as a guy who has always been land locked, i think boats are cheating. and would i cheat if i could? hell yes! and plan on hopefully doing just that this year.

Boat fishing ain't as easy as some make it out to be.There is a vast ocean out there.Takes a lifetime to learn..If u think the surf can be tough to break down there's way more access to water in a boat..Some guys don't take the time to break down area's a little at a time.They are to impatient they just zoom all over the place.Basically ending up where everyone else is.Just look for the floatilla on any weekend..For some reason most guys don't go at night..We have a great fishery here in NJ that only has 2 or 3 guys on it every night.
Thats Why Bill N basically a new boater, is so stoked to fish with a guy Like Capt Jim White.
Here is a guys with a ton of experience.He has paid his dues just like any good surf guy..
Between him an Clammer it is no wonder Bill has taken to the floating world of fishing so easily.Add to that his ability to catch fish an the results are palin to see.
I have friends, new boat guys invite me out all the time. I almost always decline.After they hit the one or to tricks they have they are clueless.An ask me what I think..An then we end up in the floatilla..
I have a boat,While I barely use it. I have surf/fishing skills that help me to make the adjustment.I have had some success.Sometimes My head hurts from all the possiblities..I certainly don't consider it cheating.It's a big ocean that takes time to learn.While it is easier to land a big fish in a boat.U still have to hook em..