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More Access problems

County Battles to Preserve Beach Driving on CHNS

Dare County and several user groups filed a motion Thursday to dismiss claims environmental groups are asserting to thwart the public enjoyment of the long standing tradition of driving on the beach within designated areas of the Cape Hatteras National Seashore. The battle is taking place in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of North Carolina Northern Division.

This motion to shut down access to a large portion of the Cape Hatteras National Seashore to the recreational fishermen is unfounded, stated Attorney Lawrence Liebesman of Holland &Knight LLP, a Washington DC environmental attorney representing the Counties and a coalition of beach access groups. The Counties and the user groups motion to dismiss is based on grounds that the court lacks jurisdiction to intervene in the Service expert management of the Seashore. The Park Service own data contradicts the conservationists claims that a federal judge must intervene now to avoid dramatic declines in shore bird populations due to beach driving while a final plan is being negotiated,? he said.

The Park Service 2007 Report shows that a number of breeding pairs of the piping plover, a shore bird protected under the Federal Endangered Species Act, was the highest since 1999 and equals that of 2006. That report also did not find any direct evidence that vehicles actually caused the deaths of any of this species and other causes such as predation and unleashed dogs were likely responsible.

Last year, the National Park Service put into place an interim plan to protect the habitat, while ensuring vehicle access while it pursues negotiations with numerous stakeholders, including the Plaintiffs, to develop a final vehicle management plan over the next few years. Leibesman asserts that the environmental groups cannot have it both ways? by asking the court to intervene and police? the Park Service management of the seashore while at the same time sitting at the negotiation table.

Dare County has long been active in the ongoing battle for preserving beach access for vehicles in the National Seashore. The official position is justified by positive economic impacts brought by fulfilling a unique visitor experience not found elsewhere and other access oriented legislation. The county signed a resolution in 2006 expressing a need to formulate a resource protection policy in order to fulfill a promise to the public to manage the CHNS for recreation and conservation purposes while ensuring continuous free and open access to pedestrian and vehicular use.

Public access to beaches was guaranteed by the founding legislation creating the Cape Hatteras National Seashore,? said Warren Judge, Chairman of the Dare County Board of Commissioners. ORVs are used at CHNS by our residents and many visitors to enjoy different activities including fishing, bird watching, swimming, water sports, and sightseeing. Beach driving is an essential part of our heritage and an important aspect of our local economy, and Dare County is committed to doing everything possible to ensure this access to our beaches.?

At a scheduling conference today, the court will determine a date to hear the parties motions to begin resolving these issues.

Dare County Public Relations Department

(252) 475-5900 - Office

(252) 473-4594 - Fax

JONES RELEASES STATEMENT ON GROUPS’ MOTION TO STOP BEACH DRIVING ON CAPE HATTERAS

WASHINGTON, D.C. – In response to a motion filed this week in U.S. District Court to ban beach driving in major portions of Cape Hatteras National Seashore, Third District Representative Walter B. Jones (R-NC) issued the following statement:

“I am very disappointed that a few special interest groups have taken the extreme step of filing a motion in U.S. District Court to stop beach driving in major portions of Cape Hatteras National Seashore. This ill-advised action threatens to shatter the good work that Park Superintendent Mike Murray has done to implement an interim management plan for beach driving and to bring all the parties together to negotiate a final rule.”

“This development is especially troubling for many reasons. These groups demanded a seat at the negotiating table but their true intentions must be called into question when they insist on using the courts to short circuit or influence the negotiating process. Furthermore, available evidence suggests that the Park’s interim management strategy has been successful in protecting endangered birds, so it is simply not credible to claim that beach driving needs to be stopped in order to save birds.”

“I urge these groups to rethink their decision, to withdraw their motion for a preliminary injunction, and to return to the negotiating table. Superintendent Murray has laid out a process to resolve this issue. It will take time, and not everyone will be 100 percent happy with the result, but it’s far better than managing the Seashore through the judicial system.”

For additional information, or to schedule an interview with Congressman Walter B. Jones, please contact Kathleen Joyce at (202) 225-3415.

This is a good example of the National Seashore trying to make all sides happy and to give a little to everyone involved. and it seems to not be going the way one group wants it to and now they think they can go above there heads to push there agendas. We need to watch and even write letters if needed, even if it is not a beach you use or far from home out of state other parks will use these findings as examples to have ORV's removed. even with hard facts they don't care they don't want us on the beaches driving and fishing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tattoobob (Post 567900)

AGREED!!!!!!

INTRO - A preliminary injunction filed in U-S District Court last month could severely restrict driving on Cape Hatteras National Seashore beaches if a judge grants the plaintiffs request. George Olsen has more.Defenders of Wildlife and the National Audubon Society, represented by the Southern Environmental Law Center, sought the preliminary injunction in order to protect threatened and endangered shorebirds. An SELC press release said the plaintiffs are seeking to stop the use of off-road vehicles or ORVs in six areas that constitute about 12 percent of the National Seashore. Foot traffic would still be allowed. But the areas that plaintiffs are seeking to restrict from vehicle traffic are among the Seashore's most popular for recreational fishermen.We've gotten feedback from many business operators, hotel owners that's the heart and soul of the tourist industry in Cape Hatteras. By closing those areas we think will have a devastating effect on the local tourist economy, so that's our big concern. Those are the areas they want to close and the effects could be disastrous.Larry Liebesman is a partner in the firm Holland & Knight which is acting as counsel in opposing the injunction for Dare & Hyde County governments and local business and user groups. The SELC agrees that the sites they're seeking to close are the seashore's most popular fishing spots. But they say interim rules governing beach driving are insufficient and the needs of the shorebirds are immediate enough that waiting for final rules isn't an option.Particularly where you consider that two species did not nest on the seashore completely gold billed terns and black skimmers so we can't wait three more years and risk other species not nesting on the seashore as well, so the interim plan that is in place now is not adequate and not providing the protections that are necessary.Geoff Gisler is an associate attorney with the SELC. Plaintiffs are seeking greater weight be placed in a report by the U-S Geological Survey rather than the interim plan regulating beach driving that the National Park Service produced and put in place last summer. The Geological Survey report he cites recommends more pre-nesting closure of beaches shutting down beach driving before birds arrive which in the interim plan is only provided to areas used by piping plovers protected under the Endangered Species Act for the last three breeding seasons.The other birds, like the American Oyster Catcher and the Colonial Waterbirds, those birds don't get protection until they establish a nest, which is a big problem because when a bird comes in and its trying to establish a territory, out-compete other birds for a spot and attract a mate and create a nest, that's enough of a challenge with the inter-species competition without having ORVs driving through at the same time.Liebesman contends the interim plan the Park Service is currently using took into account the U-S Geological Survey report but balanced it with other policy and regulatory factors they were obligated to consider. Likewise, he says any decline in shorebird numbers can't be attributed to any one factor.If you look at the data and the analysis there are many factors that address the status of these various species out there and effect their productivity predation, the weather, climate, the changing coastline, there are a lot of different factors out there and the allegations that ORVs are the problem is clearly overstated.He adds that piping plover pair numbers are the highest this year since 1999 and is not aware of any reports of bird nests being crushed by ORVs. But that direct threat is perhaps not the plaintiff's chief concern.Some of the specific problems are a lot of the foraging that goes along goes on for the chicks goes on in the rack line, the area where the seaweed and the natural debris from the ocean washes up. We've all seen it on the beach shore. That area is home to a lot of invertebrates if it's left undisturbed. If it's driven over by ORVs, it gets broken down, the invertebrates aren't there, the birds have nowhere to feed.The Seashore does not have a permanent beach driving management plan despite being required to have one, though permanent plans are currently being discussed with all sides at the table. Whether those discussions will continue with the current interim plan or the plaintiff's preference in place could be determined soon. Geoff Gisler with the SELC says a hearing on the injunction should take place early April.

well some more crap that goes on down there ; elimination of predators ....
http://fishmilitia.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3299

apologies for the link , not sure if it is 'allowed' here or not ...

I just learned that this beach is in North Carolina.

What can we do?

:ss:

Make phone calls
send emails
send letters

Names and phone numbers are in the above posts

seems like the whacked out conservationists are seeking the same agenda from one end of the Striper Coast to the other.................

endangered species = fear and misguidance
ignoring science = denied access for the rec anglers
less access = the Largest Single Land Grab in the history of the National Seashore
BIG Land Grab = BIG dollars from the private landowners to state and local coffers

if there was a legitimate beef, i'd say go for it.
clearly, that is not the case with these bafoons!!

email sent. thanks for the heads up, tattoo you.

Quote:

seems like the whacked out conservationists are seeking the same agenda from one end of the Striper Coast to the other.................

it does look that way ..:realmad:
cape hatteras , then cape lookout ..
assateague island is up for some sort of evaluation ??
now the new topic is the nps wants to take over the deleware ocean parks ...

a lot of truth in an imaginary conversation

United We Stand, Divided We Fall

How many member are on this community?

Is there a way to start a poll? Perhaps to measure how many members of this community have sent their emails, phone calls, or letters?

I am drafting my letter and email as I type this.

:cputin:

-Fish360

Probably 4 out of 5000

A lot of these people are ecoligically challenged as I like to call them.
Where do we send e-mails to help the guys down south and eventually us on the Cape (Cod). Thanks

[This is the letter I have drafted. Should I add anything? I welcome your feedback.]

Congressman Walter Jones
1105-C Corporate Drive
Greenville, NC 27858-4211

Dear Congressman Walter Jones:

As a scientist, I understand all to well the fragility of our ecosystem. However, I also understand that we as a species must coexist with other species. I applaud you in your effort to protect Cape Hatteras National Seashore and for taking a balanced approach to the access and fishing issues on the Cape Hatteras National Seashore.

I have come to understanding that certain groups are claiming that “beach driving needs to be stopped in order to save birds". Why? What is the basis for this claim? I do not understand this extreme approach.

Correct me if I am mistaken, but according to my understanding, fishing is an integral part of the Cape Hatteras National Seashore culture and economy. The preservation of Cape Hatteras National Seashore wildlife and fishing need NOT be mutually exclusive. In fact, when scientists and fisherman work together, maximum results are obtained.

I am a surfcaster. When I go fishing, I thread lightly. I do not litter. I pick up other peoples' trash. I communicate this to my fellow surfcasters; they in turn communicate it to others. If I see violations against nature being performed by someone on the beach, I accost the idiot.

I live in Massachusetts. I have friends in your state. In my next visit to North Carolina, I hope to surf fish via beach buggy.

The Cape Hatteras National Seashore should be enjoyed by everyone (eco-tourists and fisherman included).

I know you are a very busy man. I thank you for your time. And, I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

I would exclude the idiot comment and add something about the elderly and handicapped access problems

Oh and thank you for taking the time to write a letter

tattoobob,

Thank you for the feedback.
I have removed the idiot sentence and add this "Of importance to note is that beach driving is not just for fishing. Many citizens use a 4 x 4 vehicle to transport their family members, food, necessities, and beach gear safely up and down the beach. This particularity true for family members who are elderly or physically challenged. "

You are very welcome.

I am sending the letter out tomorrow via email, fax and snail mail. ...what happened to that carrier pigeon?

National Park Traveler Article

These people are the extreme, I have been at clean ups with the National Audubon Society and have had these people stand in the tracks so I can't pass yell out stuff, lay boards and sticks in the tracks, and go as far as dig holes in the tracks. they are out to stop all beach driving and they are starting here, then head north they will not stop till all beaches are void of all human life. I couldn't even read the comments they are asinine

Quote:

I couldn't even read the comments they are asinine

same here ...

tattooboo,

I hear what you are saying. I am having a flash back to went I was reading "Twenty Years on the Cape." by Frank D.

I am glad to see we are "learning from history". I think that we can succeed in keeping our beaches open for access and driving access if we stand united.
What did the anglers during Frank D's time do?

I need to pick up a copy of "The Art of War".

-

Not sure. ask Karl F.

from a post on another board

Quote:

I found the following in a heated thread between a couple of "envrionmentalists" and pro ORV access persons, and after reading it I thought that this person hit the nail on the head from my perspective, he seemed to put into a well thought out reply exactly what I would like to say if I could clear my emotion. If you know or were the person that posted this reply please email me, I couldn't find any way to contact this person and apologize in adavance for copying the thread.

It's always painful to read comments like some of those above that advocate the loss of access to ORV users at Cape hatteras national Seashore Recreation Area. And yes, that is its proper name. The Dept. of Interior dropped the "recreation area" part, not Congress. What’s sad is that the extreme majority of persons that wish to ban access do
so with no real knowledge of CHNSRA, it's environment or the nature of beach use by those that enjoy the Seashore. Shorebird, your reference to "the cape" and incessant discussion of wetlands and development establishes you as someone totally unfamiliar with this area
and the issues at hand. I live here (Buxton, N.C.), I work here and I fish here. I do so by way of 4x4 vehicle and must as I suffer a 45% permanent partial disability negating any and all thoughts of walking any distance in the sand. So, if I may, a brief tutorial.

We live on an island that at Buxton is roughly thirty miles out to sea vs. the mainland. The Island goes from a few hundred feet to a couple miles wide and back to a thin strip as you travel from one end to another. We have but two options in terms of access to our homes.
One by ferry to Ocracoke, the other via Hwy. 12 to the north.
Hwy 12 passes through Pea Island before crossing the Bonner Bridge connecting us to Bodie Island and then by way of yet another bridge, the mainland. I mention Pea Island and the Bonner Bridge for several reasons. One being that Pea Island is a National Wildlife refuge that contains dune systems and wetlands. These were created not by nature, but by the CCC in the 1930's. Pea Island also happens to be the site of the largest migratory bird slaughter I know of. Recently, USFWS gassed thousands of Canadian Geese because they were overtaxing
the man made ecosystem and complaints about goose poop were being brought up by "McMansion" homeowners up in the developed areas of Duck, Corolla and Nags Head far to the north. The road I’ve been told that spoils Pea Island is our one real evacuation route and ironically preserves the wetlands and birds covered by the MBTA. Without road
clearings and work to preserve the dunes, the wetlands will be destroyed. Plovers don’t do well there either in spite of no ORV traffic. The same is true of the Bodie Island side of the bridge, but more on that later. Hatteras Island is a bit different in that a few villages scattered along about sixty miles of Rt. 12 dot the seashore. These villages are bounded landward by CHNSRA and are
extremely limited in development. As with Pea Island, most all of the wetlands and dune systems are man made. Have a look at Google earth you might learn something. We have the luxury of being surrounded by an extremely active environment that remains unpredictable
every day of the year. In terms of wildlife, we have the sea, the sound, and a thin strip of sand that hosts an amazing variety of birds, reptiles and mammals, crustaceans, fish, shell fish and some sea turtles too. And we care for them all. I’m sure that when most folks read about what’s going on here and see the term ORV (Off Road Vehicle) they include motocross bikes, ATV's, and dune jumping sand rails and
the like, but that’s not what happens here. All vehicles on the beach have to be licensed vehicles, driving on the dunes is prohibited and speed limits are in force as well; 25mph but most do much less because of the nature of the beach. This is not even remotely like driving on Daytona Beach. And unlike beaches to the north, no mechanical device is
needed to scour the beach of trash in the morning. We, the ORV users, didn't take a week to clean up the styrofoam from the ceiling fans, we got the vast majority of it up in one day. It was a day later that the first volunteer environmentalists showed up to help out. Less than 20. Because less than 100 ORV's occupants had already done the work.
I was there and took bags of that stuff off the beach. It was NPS that asked the tackle shops for help and brought bags and they got it. But then, that's what we normally do. We sit at the point where the Labrador current and Gulf Stream collide therefore we get a lot of stuff washed up on our beaches from elsewhere, so we clean it up, by hand,
on our time, and at our expense.

As for the birds, what do I say? We're on the EXTREME northern end of the Plover wintering grounds and the EXTREME end of the southern end of their breeding grounds. Plovers breed in areas of frequent overwash. Please come to this Island in a storm and show me where that isn't. Yes isn't. Frequent overwash means chick mortality. That has nothing to do
with ORV use. In fact it's the native Ghost Crab that is responsible for the majority of chick mortality regardless of bird species. ORV use has gone down over the years, bird enclosures have been established earlier, have been larger and have been in existence for a greater period of time and yet bird numbers don’t expand. The Black Skimmers and Least Terns that DOW, SELC, N.C. Audubon are complaing about not being in the park nested last year on a newly created dredge spoil island near Hatteras Village within a couple hundred yards of the Park boundary, But since those birds didn’t follow the rules and nest within the Park, they don’t count. Neither does the largest tern colony on the east coast
because it's on top of a certain store at a shopping center well outside of the bounds of the Park. Last time I checked, when wild animals breed where we tell them to, because we wont count their numbers if they don’t, it was called a zoo. The fact is that it’s the ORV users that care for this National Recreation area. Birds have wings and will nest where THEY want. Larger closures for longer periods has resulted in increased vegetation thereby limiting breeding grounds not by ORV but by the sea. It was ORV users that begged for the moving of turtle nests that were in "The Narrows", a section of beach regularly overwashed. The nests weren’t moved and the turtles drowned. Two of them(nests). They weren’t in our way, just in a place we knew they wouldn't survive. I challenge anyone to prove that on any "given day of year" you can find 2000 vehicles on the limited amount of beach we have left open to access. I was on the Point today and within the nine or so miles I could see less than twenty vehicles on the beach. Most of
what is Plover breeding area was still under water and the entire beach still bore remnants of the almost complete inundation that occurred over the weekend. The attempt to close human access to these beaches is a travesty and an insult to those of us that do so much to care for this amazing place. Our economies will be destroyed all the while predator populations will soar, vegetation will increase, bird populations and suitable nesting areas will decrease. I could go on but it's late and I have to go to work to a job, a living that some would
seek to eliminate here. Because of my handicap, it’s about the one thing I can do. I can barely do that. But Saturday morning, I will venture out on the beach once again to be in a beautiful environment where I have no power to change a thing. I will see Willets, Gulls, Ospreys, Terns, Gannets, Pelicans, Sanderlings, Cormorants, Oystercatchers and cetera. I will be at peace. And I will think of all the children that you would wish to deny this. No, you don’t have a clue, you don’t understand and paint us with a broad brush that’s
entirely based on perception tainted by false data and data that has been excluded. Take the time to know us before you condem us. We have just as much right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness as do you.

this really puts things in perspective

Quote:

Originally Posted by tattoobob (Post 574348)

Very well put

yes it is , i wish i knew who wrote it so i could give him credit for it . i don't and don't like just copying something and pasting it without giving credit .
but this was just so well put into ink , i had to pass it on .
derf

I sat down and read all the posts in that Blog, and there are alot of folks that lend a helping hand and this guy Snowbird who has never even stepped foot on that beach thinks he can fight to keep fishermen and orv's off the sand. I can't understand his point of view or his goals. it seems like peta type of action to me

Very well written. Thanks for posting it derf. There is more factual local information in this single post then all the articles, posts, gripes, etc. littering the internet. I can only hope that the original author shows up in person to speak at next "town hall meeting" (so to speak).

I love how they say drippy leaky SUV's.
Most trucks are in pretty good shape that drive the beach.
They kind of have to be. It really stinks breaking down out there.
I know that here we have to have a valid inspection sticker and they inspect our vehicle.
I am sure if they saw oil leaking out we wouldn't get our pass.
Once they implement the same thing down in N C there shouldn't even be an issue with that.
That is something that can be brought into the plan.

Quote:

I love how they say drippy leaky SUV's.

it is called the 'tar heel ' state for a reason , and it isn't the suv's :D
more on the court case ....http://www.islandfreepress.org/2008A...eResponds.html
and i'll be dammed if i can figgure out what is going on ...

It's mind boggling.
I can't even read that crap without steam coming out of my ears.
They make it sound like there are buggies all over every beach, when in fact there are only a few areas available for off road use.
But they want it all.
Whenever I meet anyone who share those views I invite them to come out with me.
Once they see the care and respect that we give the beach and catch a few fish they jump off the bandwagon.
So my guess is the enviros have never even had the experience.
One of them must have been bored one day and got the rest of them P & M.
http://bestsmileys.com/angry1/5.gif

Here are some questions I would like "them" to answerer:

1. "How many 'drippy leaky SUV's' drive on and off the beach each week?"
2. "Does the Ranger inspect each vehicle before granting a drive on permit?"
3. "Can you provide the scientific data that imperially proves the hypothesis that driving on the beach is having a measurable adverse effect on the habitat?"

It sounds like "they" are full of unsubstantiated claims and accusations.

They were in the middle of coming up with a management plan I believe when the 'special interest group' threw thier .02 into the fire.
Rules and Regs are all part of the mix. These 'special interest groups'
do not have a clue.

duh , ok ...my head is spinning from trying to understand 'legalese' all week ..
but let's see
the nps at hatteras basically said no contest and said they weren't going to contest the lawsuit.
the counties and chappa picked up the ball and filed this http://www.islandfreepress.org/2008A...Opposition.pdf

so i guess we are still in a wait and see whats gonna happen ...
a confused brain dead 'derf'

derf,

Thank you for the link to the pdf. I only got through page 8.
But, based on the strength of the language that I am reading thus far....."they" (i.e. "Defenders of Wildlife and The National Audubon Society") are in for it.
If this thing gets into court, the NPS attorneys sound like they are going to thread them to shreds.

I am going to print out all 36 pages and read it more carefully; I will post back accordingly.

-Fish360

I

OSV users have been losing ground for years. There is no question in my mind that at some point driving on the beach will be history. There are simply too many of "them" and not enough of "us". If the outer banks goes green we will fall soon after, no question, esp if it is decided in a court.

$5 /gallon for your boat and stay off the beach and no fishing with any lead. Mark my words this will happen in our lifetime....time to find a new hobby.

I have faith in Holland and Knight.
They have won many of these cases.
They are also the lawyers for the MBBA.
I don't understand legalease but from what I could understand H& K
knows what they are doing.

Mr. Sandman,

I hear you. I really do. But, if I am going to go down, I am going down fighting!
I work hard. Play hard. And fight for my freedom even harder!

Are there really more of "them", then "us"? I am joininig the OSV community this year with my new vehicle...but, I have been supporting OSV access rights for 3+ years (writing letters, etc). I do not think I am alone. Why? Because the OSV restrictions is just the start. The next stop for "them" is baning surf fishing. Therefore, I think this issue is more of our rights to fish.

I think "they" should spend more time going after the legislation that is allowing the commercial fishing industry to deplete the ocean bed of all small bait fish (herring, eels, etc).

This needs to be passed to everyone you can

This is a notice for all residents and business owners in Dare and Hyde counties.
I am currently setting up a meeting for Thursday, March 27, at 6:30 p.m. at the Fessenden Center in Buxton.

This will be a public meeting to describe in detail all of the current access issues, including the request by environmental groups for a temporary injunction to close portions of the beaches to off-road vehicles, the lawsuit over the Park Serviceâ€™s Interim Plan for managing the beaches, and the negotiated rulemaking process to devise a long-term plan.
Warren Judge, chairman of the Dare County Board of Commissioners, will be here to speak to us about these issues. We will be bringing all the current issues to the table and discussing what you might expect could happen to our beach access.

Over the past several months, I have heard numerous islanders and homeowners say that they have no idea about what is transpiring or that they believe it is not possible for any form of government to close our beaches. Unfortunately, the severity of the situation is greater than you know or believe.

The request for a temporary injunction will be heard on April 4 in U.S. District Court in Raleigh. If it is granted, Bodie Island spit, Cape Point and South Beach, Hatteras Inlet and the north and south points of Ocracoke will be closed to ORVs. You could be looking at full closures of these areas until the federal courts have heard the lawsuit against the Interim ORV Plan. If a judge decides in favor of the groups that have brought this lawsuit, there would be a full closure of all ORV access.

The time has come to learn about this situation or to become a believer that this could happen. Don't believe that your state government is coming to help you. Governor Easley has yet to show one ounce of support, and you will not even get a reply from Sen. Elizabeth Dole. Congressman Walter Jones and Senator Marc Basnight have both condemned the ruthless tactics of the special interest groups that are trying to take away your ORV access. However, the federal government supercedes the state government, and there is not a lot they can do at the moment.

So, if you want to hear all of the current information or just learn what is going on, then I encourage you to attend. I am working hard to put this together, and I hope to encourage a few other local leaders to come and speak about just how dire this situation really is.

If you are not a believer, just show up and we will make you one.

Sincerely,
Rob Alderman