Global Warming ?
 

Snowfalls are now just a thing of the past
By Charles Onians

Monday, 20 March 2000

Britain's winter ends tomorrow with further indications of a striking environmental change: snow is starting to disappear from our lives.

Sledges, snowmen, snowballs and the excitement of waking to find that the stuff has settled outside are all a rapidly diminishing part of Britain's culture, as warmer winters - which scientists are attributing to global climate change - produce not only fewer white Christmases, but fewer white Januaries and Februaries.

The first two months of 2000 were virtually free of significant snowfall in much of lowland Britain, and December brought only moderate snowfall in the South-east. It is the continuation of a trend that has been increasingly visible in the past 15 years: in the south of England, for instance, from 1970 to 1995 snow and sleet fell for an average of 3.7 days, while from 1988 to 1995 the average was 0.7 days. London's last substantial snowfall was in February 1991.

Global warming, the heating of the atmosphere by increased amounts of industrial gases, is now accepted as a reality by the international community. Average temperatures in Britain were nearly 0.6°C higher in the Nineties than in 1960-90, and it is estimated that they will increase by 0.2C every decade over the coming century. Eight of the 10 hottest years on record occurred in the Nineties.

However, the warming is so far manifesting itself more in winters which are less cold than in much hotter summers. According to Dr David Viner, a senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia,within a few years winter snowfall will become "a very rare and exciting event".

"Children just aren't going to know what snow is," he said.


.................................................. .................................................. ............OOPS!!!


Coldest December since records began as temperatures plummet to minus 10C bringing travel chaos across Britain

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 11:38 AM on 18th December 2010

Millions begin the big Christmas and New Year getaway early as the AA urged motorists to beware of the ‘worst driving conditions imaginable’

Quarter of train services disrupted, travel warning in Kent

Experts warn of a backlog of up to 4 million of parcels which could remain undelivered this Christmas

The NHS issues an urgent appeal for blood donors as concerns grow over shortages

Councils reveal plans to share grit amid fears the cold snap could last until January 14

Odds shortened even further on a ‘White Christmas’ in some parts of the country next Saturday

Swathes of Britain skidded to a halt today as the big freeze returned - grounding flights, closing rail links and leaving traffic at a standstill.

And tonight the nation was braced for another 10in of snow and yet more sub-zero temperatures - with no let-up in the bitterly cold weather for at least a month, forecasters have warned.

The Arctic conditions are set to last through the Christmas and New Year bank holidays and beyond and as temperatures plummeted to -10c (14f) the Met Office said this December was ‘almost certain’ to become the coldest since records began in 1910.

:rotf2::rotf2::rotf2::rotf2:

2010 hottest climate year on record, NASA says

Post Carbon - 2010 hottest climate year on record, NASA says

Must be the lamestream media again...yawn.

-spence

obviously :rotf2:

I like this part "Many scientists use the (newly invented) climate year, which runs from December of the preceding year to November of the current year, to evaluate long-term climate trends."

December is going to screw up your data so you just change the calender year? had to get that report out for the big conference in chilly Cancun...

these people are frauds, amazing they still have any credability with all they've done, actually, the story is like a week old and barely mentioned so maybe noone is listening to the AGW/Climate Changers whackjobs anymore ...show me a single example where they erred...and there are plenty of examples... and the error was not in favor of their claims and agenda..that's all you need to know....they'll have to either revise the numbers or admit that they "made a mistake", accidentally flipped a graph upside down and didn't notice the numbers were upside down or transposed numbers accidentally ("the hottest October on record", that wasn't) just like when Obama touts and cheers "good economic numbers" every Friday and the numbers all get revised, and never to his benefit... a week later, when noone is paying attention...I thought NASA was working on Muslim Self-Esteem?


"Hansen like the IPCC has been caught fudging data several times.
Hansen is an activist/scientist. James Hansen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He use to be scientist/activist but because things are not going the way he feels they should go he has become more vocal. In re to his latest analysis Hansen highlighted the 10C anomaly in the Hudson’s bay area due to the absence of sea ice, and gave a possible explanation of why Europe turned out to be so cold. This was relevant and interesting.”

How would he know what the SST anomalies are in the Hudson Bay or in Baffin Bay? They aren’t represented by GISS data. GISS deletes SST anomaly data in areas where there’s seasonal sea ice and extends land surface data (with its greater variability and higher trends) out over the oceans and those bays.

Please also understand that NASA is not the only one who keeps track of temperature.

GISS Temperatures are Out Of Line With The Rest Of The World

GISS shows temperatures rising sharply since July. We have been having a record cold La Niña since then, and everyone else shows temperatures plummeting.

GISS also showed a huge spike in March which nobody else saw. Does this have anything to do with Hansen’s constant claims of 2010 as the hottest year ever? He shows peak La Niña temperatures almost as warm as peak El Niño temperatures. That is simply ridiculous." Steven Goddard

this must be a joke... right???

in some parts of the earth it's summer right now....sort of...

Bitter summer freeze bites eastern states as summer gives way to snow and cold | News.com.au

It's pretty amusing that you attack an author for his lack of quotes while you feel free to insert your opinion between them.

But, I'm tending to agree. It's snowing outside when if the alarmists were right it should be 89 and humid.

-spence

even a broken clock is right twice a day.

what is going to happen is that we will have hotter summers and colder winters with violent storms mixed in... its already happening.

hardly as sinister as changing the entire context of certain quotes and revising history and I was good enough to include the entire sentence rather than little parts to create a narrative, didn't attack him, just asked why?....nice try.......pretty amusing that you continue to cite the work of proven frauds while dismissing and ignoring obvious facts that don't fit into your dogma....:uhuh:

they should just use June1-Sept1 for their "climate year" ...that would work well :rotf2:

is this the new "scientific concensus" and "settled science"?


:rtfm: AUSTRALIA "SUMMER"
Bitter summer freeze bites eastern states as summer gives way to snow and cold | News.com.au

it really doesn't matter in a way

look how the Saudi's have harnessed the sun and created
a place to ski ...... in their mega dome

we can always build a winter DOME complete with
Snow and some reindeer too... :grins:

scott, you got to get off of the 'warming' thing.. . the climate is changing..

I agree!

just ask a manatee....

Cold temps further endanger Florida's manatees

CNN

Workers at Tampa's Lowry Park Zoo treat 3-year-old Baby Coral for cold stress.The unusually cold weather that struck Florida in January did more than damage crops and citrus trees.

It has also caused an unprecedented number of deaths among Florida's beloved residents, the endangered West Indies manatees.

Twisting and flopping in the shallow water, Baby Coral probably doesn't realize just how lucky she is. When this 3-year-old female manatee was brought into Tampa's Lowry Park Zoo last month, she was 300 pounds underweight, unable to eat.

Her skin was covered with small white, blister-like lesions known as "Florida frostbite," the result of exposure to cold temperatures.

Lowry Park Zoo is one of the three facilities in the state that provide medical treatment and a place for manatees to recover from cold stress, as well as other injuries.

"It's an exceptionally bad year for the manatee," said Dr. David Murphy, the zoo's veterinarian.

So far this year, a record 280 or more manatees have died from cold stress-related illnesses. That's estimated to be 5 percent of the total population in Florida. Add that to last year's record mortality rate of 429 deaths from boat strikes and other causes, and that number may be as high as 10 percent.

Marine biologist Andy Garrett says he's never seen anything like this before. The full impact of the cold weather on the manatee population is still unclear, according to Garrett, who works for Florida's Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission.

He says that when water temperatures dip below 68 degrees Fahrenheit, these subtropical animals simply can't cope with the cold. Last month, Florida's water temperatures dropped as low as the 40s. While manatees are round and plump like seals and other marine mammals, their fat is not designed to insulate them from the cold, Garrett said.

Obama is TILTING the EARTH

It is very difficult to understand climate science if you aren't a climate scientist. Climate scientists overwhelmingly say the Earth is warming. Weatherman (meteorologists) are less convinced, but they aren't climatologists. It is in the 90% range for climatologists who believe the Earth is warming and 80% who say humans are causing or accelerating it. People who listen to conservative talk radio are even less convinced, but how much expertise do they have on which to base their conclusions?

love how you back up your assertions...you do realize that the "deniers" have not been shown to flip graphs, cherry pick data and fudge statistics...oh, and vastly overexaggerate claims.....but the "climate scients" have :uhuh:

Michael Mann fabricator of the data of Climate Change and the infamous “Hockey Stick” has broken his silence in the Washington Post. Mann is currently under suspension from Penn State University where both his science and methods are under investigation; Mann was heavily involved with Phil Jones and his Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia where the Climategate emails, were leaked from, not hacked.

American Physicist angered at how climatologists…skewed data to…fit a pre-determined agenda
Dr. Charles R. Anderson Another well-qualified voice is added to the growing dissent in debunking the discredited greenhouse gas theory: Government is "not worthy of our trust."

Dr. Charles R. Anderson makes his announcement on his website (June 28, 2010) in joining a growing band of professional scientists, international academics and climate experts prepared to put their reputations on the line and denounce the orthodox views held by an influential clique of discredited government climatologists.


May 19, 2010
Richard Lindzen - Eminent climate scientist publishes study showing how British and American scientific institutions politicized the great global warming scare.

World-renowned climate scientist, Richard Lindzen, a lead author of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has mounted a robust debunk of a joint letter written by Martin Rees, President of the Royal Society and Ralph J. Cicerone, President of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences. The letter is shown to be a politically-motivated and unsubstantiated public appeal written most likely with the intention to help save the now discredited theory of man-made global warming (AGW).

Lindzen’s 39-page detailed rebuttal scientifically refutes the Anglo-American appeal published in London’s Financial Times (April 9, 2010). The prestigious British press editorial was one of a line of prominent media reversals for the warmist lobby, following on from others such as that published in New Scientist.

Falloff in Public Concern Irks Science Institutions
The joint Rees Cicerone letter is one of several attempts by the scientific establishment to restore some credibility in government-funded climate science after the debacle of the Climategate scandal of November 2009. Subsequently, the leaked emails from Britain’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) were analyzed by an independent investigation set up by the CRU. The inquiry found that scientists did cherry-pick data to ramp up fears of a climate change apocalypse. A climate scientist at the CRU had received government funding in excess of £13 million according to a report in Britain's Daily Telegraph (December 5, 2009)

Among other points, Lindzen addresses the Rees and Cicerone claim that “neither recent controversies, nor the recent cold weather, negate the consensus among scientists: something unprecedented is now happening.”

The so-called scientific ‘consensus’ referred to has been exposed as a fabrication and boiled down to the opinions of only 75 climatologists from over 19,000 of such accredited international experts.

Harold Lewis, emeritus professor of physics at the University of California, Santa Barbara, recently resigned from the American Physical Society (APS) after 67 years. In his resignation letter, he wrote about "… the global warming scam, with the (literally) trillions of dollars driving it, that has corrupted so many scientists, and has carried APS before it like a rogue wave. It is the greatest and most successful pseudoscientific fraud I have seen in my long life as a physicist. Anyone who has the faintest doubt that this is so should force himself to read the Climategate documents, which lay it bare.

where are all of the lying, discredited "deniers"?...hopefully not trying to enjoy some summer beach time on Australia's Southeastern Coast...or Florida for that matter...:rotf2:

The scientists were not "discredited". 5 reviews (including one by Britian's Roayal Society and the House of Commons) did not dispute the science. Penn State also exonerated Michael Mann of any scientific wrongdoing.

The reviews did find that the emails were "mean spirited, others were dismissive of contrarian views, and others revealed a reluctance to share data".

The reviews also complained mildly about one poorly explained temp. chart discussed in the emails, but found no reason to dispute the scientists "rigor and honesty".

British panel clears ‘Climate-gate’ scientists of bias
A British report released Wednesday on the “Climate-gate” scandal criticizes a key group of scientists for lack of transparency and other problems with how they presented their data, but it concludes that their underlying scientific work is sound—and one of the top scientists is getting his job back.
In November, climate change experts at the University of East Anglia’s Climate Research Unit found themselves under intense scrutiny when over 1,000 internal e-mails were obtained and uploaded to the Web by hackers. Some climate change skeptics accused the scientists of manipulating data to suppress evidence.
But the experts’ overall “rigor and honesty as scientists are not in doubt,” the new report on the scandal found. The report was requested and paid for by the university, and the panel that conducted the investigation was led by Muir Russell, a retired civil servant and educator.
Last year, Phil Jones, a leading climatologist at the university, temporarily stepped down when he was caught in the center of the firestorm, but he was immediately reinstated based on the conclusions of the report.

just like Charlie Rangel......it's getting warmer....:uhuh:

But the final say will be in the hands of a skeptical inspector general at the National Science Foundation, the primary funder of the research into global warming. According to published documents. The IG must determine whether Penn State's investigation was adequate.

The Office of Inspector General confirmed that it will review the misconduct charges. According to a spokeswoman "OIG is provided with an institution's investigation report, we review it for fairness, accuracy and completeness" -- issues the investigation has already been faulted for.

Penn State's investigation came under severe attack by critics who argued that the university failed to interview any hostile witnesses, failed to examine the methodology that was at the heart of the controversy and was more concerned that the millions of dollars in grant money it gets by having Mann on the faculty could be jeopardized by adverse findings.

"It was set up to be a total whitewash, and the panel made no effort to investigate," said Steven Milloy, publisher of Junk Science, a Web site that casts doubt on global-warming research. "They didn't even interview the recipients of the e-mails. It is ridiculous,".

A British review board also looked into the leaked e-mails, studying allegations that East Anglia researchers had tampered with data or perverted the peer review process. That panel found the British scientists innocent on March 31 -- although the panel's review included just a single day of testimony, and also drew ire from warming skeptics.

"The University of East Anglia's enquiry into the conduct of its own staff at its Climatic Research Unit has highlighted criticisms of the department and staff conduct – but clears the path for the individuals concerned to carry on. The panel avoided examining the scientific work of the CRU team – as have the two other reviews of the leaked archive by Lord Oxburgh, and the Commons select committee on science. If the academics had used bats' wings or tea leaves to create temperature reconstructions, that wasn't a matter for any of the panels to judge. And this is undoubtedly a shortcoming.



bet they got a standing ovation too!

Napolitano Says DHS to Begin Battling Climate Change as Homeland Security Issue
Friday, December 17, 2010
By J. Brady Howell

(CNSNews.com) - At an all-day White House conference on "environmental justice," Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano announced that her department is creating a new task force to battle the effects of climate change on domestic security operations.

Speaking at the first White House Forum on Environmental Justice on Thursday, Napolitano discussed the initial findings of the department’s recently created "Climate Change and Adaptation Task Force."

This plan also noted: “Many USCG [Coast Guard] and Customs and Border Protection facilities, by their mission, are located in the coastal zone which will be adversely impacted by sea level rise. Costs will increase for protecting existing facilities from the impacts of sea level rise and some facilities might have to be abandoned in the longer term.”

The all day White House Forum on Environmental Justice also included talks by White House Council on Environmental Quality Chair Nancy Sutley, EPA Administrator Lisa P. Jackson, Attorney General Eric Holder, Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar, Secretary of Labor Hilda Solis, and Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius.


This is getting a little bit crazy now....ya think????

OOPS there goes...
 

more Obama Green Jobs....these Obama jobs are really...really expensive!

December 22, 2010
Taxpayer-subsidized solar cell maker shuts down
Thomas Lifson
So much for green jobs being the wave of the future, as promised by President Obama. Taxpayer-subsidized solar cell maker Spectra-Watt has announced it is shuttering its plant. The Poughkeepsie Journal reports:

In a stunning reversal, the frequently lauded and taxpayer-funded SpectraWatt Inc. has told the state it will close its solar cell plant starting in March and lay off 117 workers.

The announcement was startling because in the past two months, the company, which had been promised about $8 million in tax dollars, planned to train more workers and changed its work shifts to enable a 24-hour operation.

The company blames the unusually cold winter in Europe: Al Gore...where are thou??

this also.......


Solyndra to Close Factory, Layoff Dozens
By Ucilia Wang Nov. 3, 2010,

This year just hasn’t panned out for Solyndra. The company is going to close its first factory, is delaying expanding its gleaming new factory and is laying off dozens of employees.

The New York Times posted the news on Tuesday night. Solyndra received a federal loan of $535 million last year to build its second factory, which it had aimed to have 500 megawatts of annual production capacity. The Obama administration held up Solyndra as an example of a home-grown cutting-edge technology developer that would deliver lots of green jobs through its factory expansion plan and more than $2 billion in announced sales deals. should have been an omen

Instead, Solyndra CEO Brian Harrison — who joined the company only recently, replacing the founding CEO — told the Times that the company plans to let go about 40 employees and will not renew contracts for 150 temporary workers. (The company said Wednesday morning the number is actually 135.) The Fremont, Calif., company will shutter its first factory to save at least $60 million in capital spending. Instead of boosting its overall production capacity to 610 megawatts by 2013, it’s now looking at up to 300 megawatts by then: less than half the original plan.

can we get half of our money back?

Call Barry, if he's not too busy in Hawaii, maybe he can "save" these jobs!!!! or maybe retrain these people in the field of "environmental justice"(watermelon marxism)

wouldn't it be ironic if a mini ice age caused by Global Warming destroyed the Green Agenda?

Sudden market slump cited SpectraWatt closure plan | poughkeepsiejournal.com | Poughkeepsie Journal

WICCOPEE — In an exclusive interview with the Poughkeepsie Journal, a SpectraWatt Inc. official said a sudden change in economic conditions was to blame for the notice given Tuesday that the company will lay off 117 workers and may shut down its solar cell plant beginning in March.

What exactly would temperature have to do with photovoltaic cells?

you tell me...:rtfm:


In a news release, the company said it hopes to reverse the situation that led to the decision, but SpectraWatt officials did not respond to requests for details.
Created with nearly $100 million in private and public investments and announced in April 2009, SpectraWatt ramped up quickly, creating jobs in the midst of high unemployment. It began production by March this year and became one of the brightest new lights in the Hudson Valley economy. Now it has blinked, and may well go out.
"You could have knocked me over," said John MacEnroe, president of the Dutchess County Economic Development Corp., which less than seven weeks ago hailed the company with a Business Excellence Award.

Charles North, president of the Dutchess County Regional Chamber of Commerce, said, "I'm certainly disappointed, and, actually, I'm shocked."

SpectraWatt was offered about $8 million in government subsidies to help get it started, along with at least $91.4 million in private investor support from Intel Capital and others. It could not be determined Tuesday how much of the public subsidy has been given so far to SpectraWatt and what liabilities, if any, were attached to the money. State officials and elected representatives could not be reached for comment Tuesday night.

The company said, "This action is undertaken in response to deteriorating market conditions resulting from a harsher-than-usual European winter causing a large drop-off in demand for solar cells."The company continues to pursue alternatives aimed at improving its current situation and hopes to reverse this action," the company said.
http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/a...plans-shutdown

THEN
Monday, 20 March 2000

Britain's winter ends tomorrow with further indications of a striking environmental change: snow is starting to disappear from our lives.

However, the warming is so far manifesting itself more in winters which are less cold than in much hotter summers. According to Dr David Viner, a senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia,within a few years winter snowfall will become "a very rare and exciting event".
"Children just aren't going to know what snow is," he said.


NOW

30th December 2010
WINTER MAY BE COLDEST IN 1000 YEARS

Britain's winter is the coldest since 1683 and close to being the chilliest in nearly 1,000 years.

Latest figures reveal that the average temperature since December 1 has been a perishing -1C.

That makes it the second coldest since records began in 1659.

The chilliest on record was 1683/84, when the average was -1.17C and the River Thames froze over for two months.

But with January and February to come, experts believe we could suffer the most freezing cold winter in the last 1,000 years.

The Met Office’s Charlie Powell said: “It’s rare to have cold this prolonged, with temperatures falling incredibly low.

“Temperatures will be down again by Sunday, with nights below freezing and daytimes below average at 3C to 5C. Our outlook forecast to January 26 shows temperatures 2C or 3C below average, frost and ice likely and the highest chance of snow or sleet over the northern half of the UK.”

Although official weather records only go back to 1659, weather experts said the centuries from 1100 to 1500, dubbed the “Medieval warm period”, would not have produced winters as cold as today.

So 2011 could end up being the coldest winter of the last millennium.


Brian Gaze, of The Weather Outlook, said: “It’s very unusual to have a sub-zero month.”


I need an Adderall....:rotf2:

Your global warming is all over my yard. Please remove it asap

that's weather on your yard...not climate ....DENIER!!!

Lets follow that logic.
it's 48deg at my house right now, 8-9 deg above average.
guess you must believe in it now, at least until it snows again...

you just pulled an Al Gore...that is so funny!

One thin September soon

A floating continent disappears

In midnight sun


Vapors rise as

Fever settles on an acid sea

Neptune's bones dissolve


Snow glides from the mountain

Ice fathers floods for a season

A hard rain comes quickly


Then dirt is parched

Kindling is placed in the forest

For the lightning's celebration


Unknown creatures

Take their leave, unmourned

Horsemen ready their stirrups


Passion seeks heroes and friends

The bell of the city

On the hill is rung


The shepherd cries

The hour of choosing has arrived

Here are your tools

No, actually that would be pulling a "Rush Limbaugh."

-spence

The Ozone layer is healing itself according to the 2010 UN Scientific Assessment
of Ozone Depletion.
"The Earth's upper ozone layer has stopped thinning and could be
restored by mid-century."

There are as many scientists that don't believe in Global Warming is man made as do.

I'm sure man made pollution may have something to do with it, but
to depend on a Green Job Program to save the world and our economy
is nothing but Pie in the Sky.

great, but that is not a result of CO2, thats the result of banning CFC's

Is this your own poll of scientists?

My point was, it's 50deg today, 01/2011. if I used the 'deniers' logic, then global warming is here. I don't use this as an argument, just making a point on the 'it snowed in December, climate change isn't real' argument

i believe in climate change
 

it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that we have deforested
a large percentage of the planet for wood or expansion of cities

that we have covered it in black asphalt and stone or metal buildings

or covered it with millions of houses with tar covered black roofs

the black death or dust bowl days is the largest example of man made climate change where we altered the prairie by decimating the buffalo herds to terminate the Native American food supply and starve them out...

can we shift it back...of course
....by starting thousands of tree farms and re planting the trees we took away in areas where no trees now grow by the millions and millions

it's being done NOW but on to small and to slow a scale. :doh:

Isn't the chemical that replaced CFC's one of the leading causes of
" Global Warming" ?

Never heard that. I believe HFC's are about ten times weaker than CFC's in regards to global warming, and 50 times weaker in regards to ozone depletion.

Hey wasn't the ozone hole a big scam as well???
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Worester's high of 58 today tied the all time record set in 1892.z

No other records than Salty's ranting about Barry's vacation costs were tied or broken today.

No Poll, just random reading over a period of time on the controversy.

I agree one day, month, year, or even a decade don't prove it either way.
I am saying to think that a massive Green Jobs Program to save the world
and produce a new economy is pie in the sky thinking.

No matter what we do China and the emerging third world countries who are
doing most of the manufacturing polution are not going to adhere to
strict standards or go to the expense.

2010 was the warmest year on record for BOS with a daily avg temp of 53.8 beating the 53.6 set in 1949 and 1953.

NWS has been recording temps in BOS since 1872

From Wikipedia...
The interim replacements for CFCs are hydrochlorofluorocarbons (HCFCs), which deplete stratospheric ozone, but to a much lesser extent than CFCs.[10] Ultimately, hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) will replace HCFCs with essentially no ozone destruction (although all three groups of halocarbons are powerful greenhouse gases).

I don't know if it was a scam but do you know it was not?

I don't know what you mean by a 'scam'?
Ozone was a real issue, and globally it was a significant achievement to reduce the depletion of Ozone in the atmosphere by eliminating CFC's

Note; I don't have time to dig out a text and look it up, but from memory, with the caveat that I'm not an atmospheric chemist:

HFC's are a greenhouse gas. Not as effective at trapping solar radiation as CFC's, so besides the ozone benefit of banning cfc's there is a reduction in greenhouse gas, albeit a slight one. We are essentially swapping one GHG with another, with the added benefit of not destroying the Ozone layer.

the amount of HFC's in the atmosphere vs CO2 is orders of magnitude smaller, although ideally, a non-greenhouse gas would be used as a propellant or coolant. the net benefit of HFC's over CFC's to the ozone layer is significant, even if there was no significant reduction in greenhouse gas. Think of it as the lesser of two evils.

Ok now that was friggin funny :love:

There is no such thing as global warming. It's all been dreamed up.

It's really Obama's fault.

Our climate is changing. There is no doubt. While we can argue forever about the warming part, our climate is capable of rapid ups and downs. 60 degrees one day and 20 degrees the next. Flash flooding is more common as storms are more intense. Anyone who gets caught up in the debate about the term " warming" is a fool.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Was a joke. People said the same thing about the ozone hole years ago, environmentalists just trying to wreck the economy, but you don't hear that today.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Todays crisis is tomorrows old news.