This speaks volumes
 

"More than four in 10 Republicans... believe the president probably or definitely was not born in America."

Arizona lawmakers pass presidential 'birther' bill - CNN.com

Wonder what those #'s are amongst the tea party affiliates.

Interesting coincidence. While coming off the water and loading my kayak onto my truck yesterday, some old timer bait fishing for trout was droning on and on about Obama not being born in the US and being a muslim.

obama, birthers and Tea Party aside...

why is this a bad idea?

(CNN) -- The Arizona legislature has approved a bill that would require President Barack Obama and other presidential candidates to prove they are American citizens, born in the United States, before their names could be placed on a state ballot.

Hey Johnny D -

It's no secret I hate the guy, but I concede he was almost certainly born here.

But here's my question...why has Obama spent so much of his own money (I've heard hundreds of thousands of dollars) to ensure that his birth certificate and Harvard paperwork remain undisclosed?

I think that's a fair question, I don't think it makes me a racist or a kook. I can think of 2 reasons, and only 2...

(1) he wants to keep the "birther" movement alive. so that he (and the media) can demonize the opposition as kooks.

(2) there's something in there he doesn't want anyone to see. My guess is that when he applied to Harvard, he claimed that he wasn't a US citizen, in the hoopes of getting preferential admission or preferential financial aid.

Do any of the Obama supporters think my question is radical? Anyone have any guesses as to the answer? Most recent presidents have happily disclosed that stuff, Obama has gone to considerable expense to prevent that.

Zimmy, I see you live in CT. I've lived here my whole life. CT is as blue as it gets. It has been 30 years since the Republicans controlled the legislature in this state. In other words, this state offers an almost-perfect observatory to see the effects of pure, unchecked liberalism at work.

What has that gotten us? Crippling tax rates, astronomical debt, a God-awful business climate, and big cities that are a disaster.

Am I wrong?

I'm a tea-party guy. i think that there are only 2 ways to get into the levels of debt that our state is in...eithyer the taxes are unreasonably low, or the spending is unreasonably high...which is it?

Zimmy, the Dems in CT recently announced a plan to build a 9.4 mile road from New Britain to Hartford. The cost is $570 million. $570 million to pave 9.4 miles of road and buy a few buses.

Zimmy, does that sound reasonable to you, especially in this economy? Half a billion so that drug-addicts from New Britain can take the bus to Hartford to get their crack?

When that's the alternative, the tea party agenda starts looking pretty rational to me.

And I'd be much happier if Obama was a life-long Muslim, instead of a lifelong member of black liberation theology. There are many great Muslims, but no one who sat in Rev Wrights church for 20 years is rational. you can't listen to that bile for 20 years and not have a screw loose.

if he's from Hawaii, why does he have a SS# that would have been issued from Connecticut? When did he live in Connecticut? just wondering....


The Social Security website confirms the first three numbers in his ID are reserved for applicants with Connecticut addresses, 040-049.

“Since 1973, Social Security numbers have been issued by our central office,” the Social Security website explains. “The first three (3) digits of a person’s social security number are determined by the ZIP code of the mailing address shown on the application for a social security number.”

Robert Siciliano, president and CEO of IDTheftSecurity.com and a nationally recognized expert on identity theft, agrees the Social Security number should be questioned.

“I know Social Security numbers have been issued to people in states where they don’t live, but there’s usually a good reason the person applied for a Social Security number in a different state” .

When asked whether Siciliano thought the question was one the White House should answer.

“Yes,” he replied. “In the case of President Obama, I really don’t know what the good reason would be that he has a Social Security number issued in Connecticut when we know he was a resident of Hawaii.”

Siciliano is a frequent expert guest on identify theft on cable television networks, including CNN, CNBC and the Fox News Channel.


he's no ordinary president, is he?:rotf2:

I think he has yet to produce the long form birth cert. that I believe you and I need to get a passport. I think that form states a declared religion. Might he be ashamed?

"We invented all kinds of ways to obtain false identity papers, and got busy building multiple sets of ID for each of us and for every contingency," writes Bill Ayers of his years in the Weather Underground. "We soon figured out that the deepest and most foolproof ID had a government-issued Social Security card at its heart."


hmmmmm???:rotf2:

Who called you a racist? I laught at the strawman the repub. always pull. Claiming that the dems call the repub. racists but I never see it from the dems.

I don't know if he's spent any money. Either way I think it allows the birthers to wallow in their misery and show how unhinged they are. He prob. thinks if he prov. any doc. they'll claim the docs. are forgeries or move onto something else. They'll never vote for him so why should he do anything they demand?

you should take a moment and Google this...there is no shortage of what you claim does not exist...

I'm sure there is plenty of that. You see all types on the internet. But I haven't seen it here.

when did he say that someone here called him a racist?

Originally Posted by Jim in CT
"I think that's a fair question, I don't think it makes me a racist or a kook. I can think of 2 reasons, and only 2..."






I'm pretty sure that Regan's birth certificate is hanging on the wall of his presidential library :rotf2:

Why bring it up?

maybe he has doubts whether he is or isn't a racist?

it's the two (racist, kook) most common reactions by the left and the media toward anyone that brings up the subject...you just admitted that...


"I'm sure there is plenty of that." Paul

Paul, if you claim that you have never heard liberals say that Obama bashers are racists, you really have you head in the sand. Obama himself said, several times during the campaign, that Republicans were going to make Americans afraid of the fact that he's black.

MSNBC uses that tactic every single night.

Get some facts before you start insulting thise on my side, OK?

"They'll never vote for him so why should he do anything they demand"

Oh, i don't know, maybe because he serves all of us, not just the ones that he likes? A real constututional scholar, eh?

Paul, you didn't claim that you never saw it here. Here is what you said..."I never see it from the dems. "

No one here ever called me a racist, and I never made any such claim. I said it happens regularly, and no one who thinks rationally can say otherwise.

It came up in the other thread too ( the racism thing). THis is the first year since I have lived in CT (9 years) that there isn't a republican gov. I don't know about the road, haven't heard enough about it. I am guessing the intent has nothing to do with giving crack heads a way to get to Hartford. Also, I LOVE that scott w chimed in to show why he thinks Obama wasn't born in the US.

I love the Obama's behind the Birther movement...classic Karl Rove tactic...

-spence

when did I say that?...I find it amusing and I'm happy to point out that things regarding the president's origin and early years through college are a bit foggy, particularly if you've done any reading on the matter....seems to me there are many more questions regarding Obama's various inconsistencies than there were regarding Bush's military service and it's pretty obvious to all observing there's been very different treatment in the media and from the left who demanded the documents in Bush's case....even forged some during a presidential campaign and ran them as factual courtesy of Dan Rather...I have no way of knowing beyond the questions that have arisen and the little offered by the Obama team to answer any of the questions to draw conclusions but I do know that based on the trend of the last few years, the Obama supporters are very likely to be very disappointed after trusting what Obama says, remember...Clinton sent his minions out to defend him, and they dutifly marched out only to learn that he'd lied to them too....of course, he just immediately changed their marching orders and they continued to defend him :uhuh:

i think the people that really knew got snuffed

Statements like this are really better when backed up with documentation :uhuh:

-spence

"THis is the first year since I have lived in CT (9 years) that there isn't a republican gov"

Sigh. We don't live in a dictatorship, we live in a democracy with seperation of powers. In that democracy, the legislature is clearly the most influential branch, by far. In addition, I never said there were no "Republicans", I said that liberalism has gone un-checked. And I stand by that. Because while some of our governors had an "R" afetr their name, they were nowhere near being conservative.

How bout this Zimmy...can you name one tradiitonal conservative policy that a Republican governor has implemented here in CT? We have astronomical taxes, astronomical debt, publoic unions that get whatever they ask for, we have gay marriage, sanctuary cities, almost no limits on abortion, our entire federal congressional group is liberal...

You seem like someone who makes their mind up first, then spouts off the limited facts that support their conclusion, and ignores all other facts. "Reason" works better when you consider all the facts evenly,then form your conclusion.

If you don't know about thyat busway, look it up, then tell me it's not a stupid idea...

Spence, you used the classic liberal tactic of ignoring the question raised, and insulting the person who asked it. You do that a lot.

Spence, lety me make my question clear. Why do you think he spent so much money to keep his birth certificate and Harvard records private? Presidents routinely hand that stuff over to the press. What do you think? Not "what does Rachael Maddow say", but what do you think?

your statements are never backed up by anything :)

I'd like to see a single fact that Obama has tried to keep his birth records secret.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I think you kinda show in your own post there that your "spouting off " statement is a bit... unfair :smash: considering I said I didn't know enough about the road to comment. You may not agree with what I say, but I tend to pay an enormous amount of attention to issues I am interested in and typically won't comment unless I have a well developed opinion. The only reason I got involved in this forum against my best judgment is that I kept noticing crap get posted as if it were based on facts, when it too often was not.

Anyway, I am still reading up on the bi-way, but here is some of what I have found. I don't have an opinion yet.
"The DOT estimates the project will cost $567 million, with the federal funds covering 80 percent of that.

"The project already has some state funding committed, but would need another $22 million in state bonding, according to the DOT.

Connecticut has already spent $60 million on the busway, including about $48 million in federal funds. Marie warned last year that the state might have to repay the federal money if it scraps the busway."

"The DOT projects that 15,000 people a day will use the busway, alleviating some of the rush-hour congestion on I-84 between West Hartford and Hartford."

Zimmy, the DOT can project whatever they want. 15,000 people a day are not going to ride a bus. Do you think some lawyer of insurance executive in West Hartford is going to stand in the rain waiting for a bus, to ride to work with people from New Britain?

I'm reasonably confident he was born in the US and short of some lightning bolt of clarity that states otherwise (Trump not being one of 'em). Crack pots on both side of the fence (Democrat higher % of Truthers anyone?)

But I like the Arizona law that asks for all potential presidential candidates to prove they were born here, in accordance with the law. Rational people would think that there is some mechanism in place that actually, you know, confirms one's legal ability to run, eh?

But hey , that's me. I prefer laws that require some level of compliance across the board instead of when just convenient.

Spence, let's assume he hasn't spent a nickel to keep those records private if it gets you closer to answering a direct question for once. Again, assume he didn't spend anything. However, unlike every other modern president, he won't make those records public, and he won't say why he won't make them public.

What do you think about that? Can you please try to just answer the question?

I should have said that I hardly see it. What I do is people claiming it happens all that time but they claim it many times more than it actully happens. I don't search the internet like some of the folks here. I try to stay away b/c I find that on the internet people there are the too many scummy people. :biglaugh:who will say any classless things they want.

Seriously? You really don't see any evidence that he has tried to keep this stuff secret?

How about this...millions of people are asking to see the long-form birth certificate and his Harvard records, and he hasn't released them.

Or put anothefr way...Spence, please go on-line and see if you can look up Obama's grades from Harvard. You can't, because he hasn't allowed them (as well as other documents) to be made public.

Spence, you have CLEARLY shown that you automatically believe everything that comes from the left, and you refuse to consider anything that comes from the right.

Watch the way any network (other than Foxnews) covers the Tea Party...I can't quantify it Paul, but I knows it when I sees it. Never before in my lifetime have I seen the political opposition so immediately demonized.

When Bush was in office, dissent was "the highest form of patriotism", according to liberals. Now, dissent is the lowest form of racism.

Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening with alarming regularity.

You cannot watch any coverage of the Tea Party without hearing claims of racism, regardless of the fact that there are blacks at every Tea Party rally I have ever attended...

Respectfull dissent (from both parties) should be the basis of a democracy.

There was an teaparty rally last week at the Conn. state capital. Given that the capital police est. 750 people were there, I'm sure that atleast 1 sign could have been broadly interpreted as racist.
Yet, I did not see 1 mention of racism in any coverage (granted it could have been that there wasn't any or if there was it was so minor that the news choose not to mention it).

Ok, let me re-phrase. Not every single news piece coveringthe Tea Party will claim racism. Not every single one. But a huge percentage do, and there is zero evidence that the Tea Party supports racism.

Jim, a few people do not represent everyone or necessarily the party, but there is a reason many of us would never associate with the tea party. I think some of the evidence was seen at the Washington rally. I personally know people who went to the rally on a ride w/ a bike club. In private situations, they are overtly racist. One of my friends has a confederate flag tattooed to his shoulder. He does not hide his feelings when we are in private situations. I personally know at least 12 people who are active w/ tea party rallies. They don't represent everyone in the tea party, but they represent everyone I know personally who considers themselves part of the tea party. They are all very bigoted. They are not ashamed of it.

Glenn Beck to Tea Party: Leave Your Racist Signs at Home! | buzz twang

The problem with personal/anecdotal accounts is that they are all only tiny slices of reality, or versions of reality. Living in Detroit, most of my acquaintances are black. In private situiations, they are all overtly racist--unabashedly and proudly so. They are all Democrats. Is that a reason to not associate with Democrats? FDR, Woodrow Wilson, Teddy Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, Margaret Sanger (founder of planned parenthood), the founders of this nation, were all racists. I suppose they should not have been associated with. Maybe most, if not all of us, are or have some degree of racism, and we should all become hermits. Can't we, even with racist tendencies, still have salutary ideas and solutions to political and economic problems? Can't we even be constitutionalists?

As for Twang's thang re Beck's restoring honor rally--just another biased hit piece--and one before the rally even occurred. Speaking of some previous rally, he, as is the common practice, cherry picks a few signs that he considers racist or having racist themes, totally ignoring the host of other signs such as one minutely seen in a background--"congress works for us not the other way around"--which is the predominant animus for the tea party movement. Even most of those he chooses, though rude and crude, are not racist. One refers to religion not race. Another reversed the slavery cliche. Two compared Obamacare to voodoo, another referred to his supposed connection to Islam (Hussein), the Dixie Chicks, and his supposed non-citizenship (Kenya). Another slammed cap and trade and played on the word "trade"--to "trade" him back to his supposed lack of citizenship (Kenya). The last one actually had a racist, mispelled pejorative "niggar." Twang totally spins and paints Glen Beck's positive attempt to unify Americans with, at the time, an upcoming rally, into Twang's misconceived, hateful version--"Beck's decision to blatantly ride on the coat of Martin Luther King Jr. and the Civil Rights movement is nothing except a badly orchestrated and cynical effort to coopt the gravitas of MLK and the Rights Movement in order to replace the glaring lack of it in the Tea Party movement." Twang's own lack of "gravitas" is evident in his myopic, slanted, name-calling (teabaggers, tea bag party) and too easy and uncritical accusation that the tea party is a platformless group of know nothings. The actual Restoring Honor rally was of a different philosophical "color" than that which Twang tried to paint it.

Zimmy, this is only an accurate statement if you are talking about people who represent conservatives or the far right. On the other hand, there are a multitude of posts (and full threads) on this forum to demonstrate that individuals *do* represent the majority if they are moderates or on the left.

Zimmy, first you say that "people do not represent everyone or necessarily the party"

Then you say that "In private situations, they are overtly racist. One of my friends has a confederate flag tattooed to his shoulder."

Zimmy, you have a friend who may be racist. That friends goes to tea party meetings, so therefore the tea party is racist?

You contradicted yourself in the span of 3 sentences. Maybe you need some new friends. You may well know some loathsome racists, that has nothing to do with the agenda of the Tea Party.

"I think some of the evidence was seen at the Washington rally."

So you claim there was evidence of racism at a rally, and you don't provide any of that evidence...

Finally, I find it really, really maddening that the left demonizes the Tea Party as racist, and here's why. The principles that the Tea Party supports (small federal government, low taxes, individual responsibility, free market capitalist ideas with no unnecessary federal intrusion) are EXACTLY what black culture needs to escape the cycle of poverty. It's EXACTLY teh liberal agenda that got blacks stuck in the poverty cycle, by making them addicted to welfare, and providing financial incentives to drop out of school, have kids outside of marriage, and to not work.

The liberal agenda has essentially destroyed the black nuclear family and removed all economic upward mobility from the black culture. The surest way out, the only way out, is to support exactly the ideas the the Tea Party represents (menaing, we'll help you if you need it, but having a job is better than being on welfare). Yet the Tea Party is labeled racist?

That, to me, is as insane as believing the president is a Muslim...

Why doesn't somebody in the Tea Party go up to these people with the signs and say "Dude, We have an important message to get out here, and that sign isn't helping anything"

There was mention of a sign that said "congress works for us not the other way around"....thats the kind of signs they need to be carrying. Might help swing people in there direction a lot easier than the other ones they are carrying.

Just my opinion...