GAZA
 

What are the odds they'll come to an agreement? You know Bibi is just itching to roll it over.

Glad to see the US taxpayer investment in the Iron Dome might just be paying off. Not sure why Obama did it considering how much he was supposed to hate the Jews :huh:

Iran gets a free pass for supplying the new rockets?

Also this is a big test of Egypt's new leadership.

Lots of moving parts here.

-spence

They have been warring over in the middle east for centuries.......whats new here?? More importantly......why are we involved?? I couldn't care less.....let them bomb the crap out of each other! How does it affect me??? Its a shame they can't get along and I do not know what its all about but no doubt it has to do with religion???? Whatever!!

Has less to do with religion than power.

-spence

no agreement, never has never will be.

Can you imagine 500 rockets coming over a 3 day period and they are willing to talk. If Mexico or Cuba did that we'd invade and own the place in 3 days
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Israel has made huge concessions over the last few years in Gaza and the West Bank. It's not enough, it'll never be enough, the Palestinians will never be satisfied as long as Israel exists.

I think the Palestinian's might not be around long . You can only poke the dragon so many times before your reduced to ash
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This situation will never end until they are all dead. When you argue about who's god is better, there will never be a right answer. Zionism and fundamental islamisisim is like gasoline and matches.. POOF!!!!

Same God....thats the sad part

I actually see this as constructive.

Post Arab Spring it will be events like this that lead to solutions.

-spence

Allah vs God
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Maybe I am
Wrong.
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Three of largest religions, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are all based in the belief of 1 god. The 3 religions are then built around 3 central figures and their teachings in relation to that 1 god

Islam=Mohammed (The Divine Prophet)
Christianity=Jesus (The Son of God)
Judaism=Abraham (The Chosen One)

That's kind of simplified....but it all fanned out from there :hee:

Ugh... Frankly, the only reason I care is because we have a trillion dollar budget deficit yet continue to send $3,000,000,000 annually to Israel.

US Propaganda in support of Israel has brainwashed this country. Stop funding them and let them pay for and enforce their own settlements.

and match that with Eygpt.

Both countries then turn around and buy US armaments

NEBE-question? Blatant thread hijacking here...
 

Nebe do you make blown glass beads. I know you have to blow glass to make anything that you make, but are some of these things beads? The kind that jewlelry is made from.

Iron Dome=beacoup bucks for Raytheon in Massachusetts. $100,00 everytime they shoot one of those missilles at an incoming rocket.

I believe the US investment is around 200M.

-spence

200M US, 63k per round

"Iron Dome is not cheap. A single missile battery costs $50 million and a single missile costs $60,000.

...

Ironically, the Iron Dome system was developed with help from the U.S. In May 2010, the House of Representatives approved a plan to allocate $205 million for it. In July, President Obama announced $70 million in U.S. funding. "This is a program that has been critical in terms of providing security and safety for Israeli families," Obama said. "It is a program that has been tested and has prevented missile strikes inside of Israel.""
Israel's Iron Dome Missile Defense System A Battle-Tested Success - Investors.com

$275,000,000 from the US for Israel's Iron Dome.
$60,000 per missile.

Israel needs to be cut off and forced to pay for their own wars. Same for that corrupt, POS Pakistani government as well.

And the corrupt, POS, Aghan warlords

I can, but only in large quantities. Id have to pull a long rod out of a bubble and then cut it up into beads, then polish them in a tumbler.. a lot of work.

those aren't the three largest religions...

Fixed it

1,2, and 12.....Freikin Ball Buster

just didn't want the Hindu's, Buddhists and some others gettin' dissed :rotf2:

Wow this is a great thread! Minus the hijack.. sorry frank
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I don't know how much we should or should not spend to defend Israel, I do know that it's simplistic thinking to believe that this is just a matter or warring religions that will never end and that we should just let them shoot it out....if that's the case please explain to me which principle of which religion is being fought over on either side.....in other parts of the world I think we've referred to this as an attempt at ethnic cleansing and were quite appalled, racism?...hate crimes?? I don't think we've seen it so boldly proclaimed by the aggressors elsewhere, yet we shrug as if they're not serious....I agree with Spence, this has little to do with religion but disagree that it is at all "constructive" unless you think that once and for all the issue will be decided by whether or not an Israel still exists after the smoke clears, we know that one side is not going to stop until Israel ceases to exist, and they've stated this time and again....I guess like so many issues here in the US...we're just sick of hearing about it...let the Islamists have their way...:)

Turkish Prime Minister: ‘Israel Is A Terrorist State’November 19, 2012 12:32 PM

(CBSDC/AP) — A top Turkish official has claimed that Israel is committing acts of terrorism by bombing Hamas targets in Gaza.

Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan told the Eurasian Islamic Council conference in Istanbul that the Jewish state is systematically mass-killing Muslims.

“Those who associate Islam with terrorism close their eyes in the face of mass killing of Muslims, turn their heads from the massacre of children in Gaza,” Erdogan said, according to Reuters. “For this reason, I say that Israel is a terrorist state, and its acts are terrorist acts.”



Egypt PM decries Israeli 'aggression' on Gaza

Egypt's new Islamist president, Mohamed Morsi, viewed by Hamas as a protector, denounced Israel's attacks as "a blatant aggression against humanity".

"I tell them in the name of all the Egyptian people that the Egypt of today is not the Egypt of yesterday and that the Arabs of today are different than the Arabs of yesterday," he said after weekly Muslim prayers at a Cairo mosque.

The Muslim Brotherhood, which brought Morsi to power in an election after the downfall of former President Hosni Mubarak, has called for a "Day of Rage" in Arab capitals on Friday.

Thousands gathered in Egyptian cities to protest, including at the ancient mosque of al-Azhar in Cairo.

Thousands also marched in Lebanon's biggest Palestinian refugee camp, Ain el-Hilweh, and in the country's capital.

Tunisia's foreign minister will visit Gaza on Saturday as part of a delegation to offer support to Hamas and increase Arab pressure on Israel.

Israel must be tried for war crimes: Iran
by: By Mohammad Davari From: AAP November 20, 2012

ISRAEL is solely responsible for the conflict in Gaza and should be tried for "war crimes", Iran says, stressing that the Palestinians must be "armed to defend" themselves.
"Neither Iran nor Hamas seek conflict or war, or aim to endanger the lives of innocent people," foreign ministry spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast said in his weekly briefing on Tuesday.

The guilty party is "the criminal Zionist (Israeli) regime, which should be tried for war crimes."


Israeli threats do not work on Lebanon: Mansour November 20, 2012 01:19 PM The Daily Star

Cyprus' foreign minister Erato Kozakou-Marcoullis, right, and her Lebanese counterpart Adnan Mansour, speaks to the media during a press conference after their meeting at foreign ministry in divided Nicosia, Cyprus, Friday, Nov. 25, 2011. (AP Photo/Petros Karadjias)



BEIRUT: Lebanon will face an Israeli attack with “appropriate means,”

Foreign Minister Adnan Mansour said Tuesday, adding that his trip to Gaza along with an Arab delegation is aimed at showing solidarity with the Palestinians.

“I affirm that Lebanon will face [an Israeli attack] via the appropriate means and Israel knows this very well,” Mansour told reporters at the Rafik Hariri International Airport.

"The Israeli threats are always there for Lebanon and Israel knows very well that such threats don't work in the face of Lebanon,” he added.

His comments came in response to a question about whether Israel would attack Lebanon after the Army discovered two rockets Monday set to be launched at the Jewish State near the occupied Kfar Shuba Hills.



Hamas leader on truce prospects: "Maybe never"

After years of existing as an international pariah - with Syria and Iran as its primary allies - Hamas has been emboldened by the support it now receives from key regional powers such as Egypt, Turkey and Qatar.


Meshaal warned that the Middle East has changed with the Arab Spring, and he called on Muslim countries to stand together against Israel.


Asked by CBS News if Hamas wants peace with Israel, Meshaal responded with a message for the United States:


"If God is willing, the American people will wake up and realize that it will benefit them to support the 350 million Arabs, not Israel, to be with the 1.5 billion Muslims and not Netanyahu's gangs ... Don't reverse the picture. The killer should offer this peace, not the victim."

I'm not scared of them....they wouldn't hurt a fly

just spit coffee everywhere...thanks:rotf2:

did something that I rarely do which was watch the news on tv this morning, caught a few minutes of CBS...the conslusion reached was that each side needed to get something that they wanted in order for the hostilities to end...for the Israeli's that was an end to the shelling...for Hamas, it was an end to Israel targeting their top officials (who are planning and ordering the shelling)....


"An Israeli airstrike killed a senior militant in Gaza Monday as Hamas fighters fired hundreds of rockets at Israel -- but both sides say its up to the other to end the fighting"



think about that:)

Recent analysis suggests the Gaza operation is simply a test before the Iran air strike on nuke facilities.

So Iran has been sneaking long-rang rockets into Gaza to use Hamas in retaliatory strikes if Israel attacks...so you preempt by removing Hamas leadership and said rockets. Then attack Iran in self defense.

Additionally you test new Egyptian leadership, so far Egypt is acting pretty rational, they just can't (or don't want to) control the Sinai.

The US has invested 200M in Iron Dome and I believe Congress is prepared to spend another 600M on the project over the next several years.

Big question, does Egypt want to continue to receive US aid?

-spence

So if I understand you correctly, you believe Israel is launching a pre-emptive strike against Hamas.

How is it a pre-emptive strike if Hamas has been lobbing rockets into Israel for the last 10 days? Seems to me that you could make a compelling case that this is not a pre-emptive strike, but rather a totally justified act of self-defense. I guess MSNBC isn't spinning it that way, so you aren't aware of that possibility.

Spence, what are the Israelis supposed to do, when Hamas specifically targets civilian areas to lob a few rockets into? Moreover, the Hamas leadership (the guys who order the rocket attacks) go out of their way to hide among their own civilians, using them as shields.

So it's ok for us to give arms to Israel ( 3 dead so far ) , but not for Egypt or Iran to do the same for the Palestinians(over 100 dead with many children/civilians ) ?:smash:

You do know Iran wants us dead ...
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Cheferson, it is horrible, absolutely tragic, that the Palestinians have lost so many civilians.

But I'll ask again...if Hamas starts lobbing missiles into Israeli civilian areas, and the Hamas military leaders intentionally operate in civilian areas (using their own civilians as shields), what is Israel supposed to do? What are they supposed to do?

I'll also say that as lopsided as a 100-3 casualty ratio may appear...war is not supposed to be a game where everybody wins. You don't let the other side score a few points to make them feel bettter. The goal is 100-0, not 100-3. You try to avoid hurting non-combatants on the other side, but in the end, all that matters is protecting your own. That's ugly, but it's reality.

Yes, it's OK for us to give arms to Israel, and it's not OK for anyone to arm the Palestinians. Here's why. If the Palestinians never fired another shot, neither would Israel. If Israel never fired another shot, they would be annihilated.

There is a moral distinction between the the attacker and the person who gets attacked and fights back. Not that the Israelis haven't made mistakes. But you can't say with a straight face that they are routinely the aggressor. Israel has made enormous concessions in the West Bank and in Gaza. It wasn't enough, it will never be enough.

Yes, everyone believes the Iranian version of Rush Limbaugh.

Relevantly, much of the hate from Iran towards the US stems from US policy with regards to Israel-Palestine relations.

So if they develop a nuke, that wouldn't concern you?

Not everyone who says Iran is a threat, is a right-wing rdical. However, the only folks saying that we don't need to worry about Iran, are themselves radicals. Misinformed radicals.

Most folks agree that if Iran is a barbaric regime, hell-bent on enslaving as many people as possible under their thumb.

No, it's a preemptive strike against Iran.

-spence

Then there is a different theory.
Iran sneaks longer range rockets through Sudan to Gaza to show Israel that
if it attacks Iran's nuclear sites they are open to attack from Iran and Gaza, now being able to hit Jeruselem and Tel Aviv.
Kinda makes more sense as Gaza is the one who strarted the rocket attacks.

So we let Iran bully us into changing our foreign policy?

If the barbaric kooks in Iran hate what we're doing in the Middle East, that's pretty good reason for me to assume we are doing the right thing.

The Civil Rights workers who fought in the segregated south used to have a saying..."if the Klan is shooting at you, you must be doing something right".

Happy Thanksgiving Johnny. Following UCONN hoops at all?