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-   -   Why hasn't Obama ordered flags to half-mast after what happened in Tennessee? (http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showthread.php?t=88859)

Jim in CT 07-20-2015 09:43 PM

Why hasn't Obama ordered flags to half-mast after what happened in Tennessee?
 
Does he do this stuff on purpose, to give the finger to people with traditional values?

Bill Clinton had liberal core values, but he understood that lots o people felt differently, and that he was their President, too.

This guy...everything he touches, turns to vomit. He can't get the easy ones right.

Fishpart 07-21-2015 08:58 AM

When in the course of human events....

JohnR 07-21-2015 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishpart (Post 1077276)
When in the course of human events....

18 months, just wait a bit longer, natural turn of elected power.

On an unrelated note, been reading a lot on the history leading up to and through the Civil War.

Takeaways:

  • Abe Lincoln was the best POTUS
  • Reading of actual history and relating to today cannot be constrained in 140 characters
  • We may be approaching about as decisive a nation as then

Jim in CT 07-21-2015 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnR (Post 1077281)
18 months, just wait a bit longer, natural turn of elected power.

On an unrelated note, been reading a lot on the history leading up to and through the Civil War.

Takeaways:

  • Abe Lincoln was the best POTUS
  • Reading of actual history and relating to today cannot be constrained in 140 characters
  • We may be approaching about as decisive a nation as then



Agreed on all counts.

Even here in the Peoples Republik Of Konnecticut, they lowered the flags to half-mast, as other governors are now doing. I assume Obama is aware that the attack took place, right? It's unbelievable to me that he hasn't lowered th eflag to half mast, who the hell advises this guy on these things?

Fly Rod 07-21-2015 12:05 PM

It took 7 days to lower the flag.

Y was not the white house lit up at nite with RED, WHITE AND BLUE on the 4th of July.

spence 07-21-2015 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fly Rod (Post 1077309)
It took 7 days to lower the flag.

Y was not the white house lit up at nite with RED, WHITE AND BLUE on the 4th of July.

And some patriotic face paint. I mean at least Obama could have had a flag on one cheek and a firework blast on the other.

WTF is going on???

Jackbass 07-21-2015 03:05 PM

Lights on White House who cares really Marines murdered on home soil flag should have been dropped to half mast when it happened. He seems to be fairly aloof to these things.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim in CT 07-21-2015 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackbass (Post 1077341)
Lights on White House who cares really Marines murdered on home soil flag should have been dropped to half mast when it happened. He seems to be fairly aloof to these things.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I think it shows exactly how radical and out-of-touch he is. I bet less than 10% of Americans are offended by lowering the flag to honor these victims. However small and deranged this minority is, he is clearly in it. Unbelievable that we elected this guy.

Sea Dangles 07-21-2015 05:38 PM

How could that offend anybody? I am guessing that even Spence,who is as unpatriotic as they come, would be fine with such a gesture.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Nebe 07-21-2015 05:54 PM

the logic could be that it would signal that if you want a reaction from the president, go out and kill some service members.

Jim in CT 07-21-2015 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebe (Post 1077360)
the logic could be that it would signal that if you want a reaction from the president, go out and kill some service members.

Come on. You think he chose not to do it (until he was shamed into doing it today) to keep us safer? Why didn't he say that? And if that was his motive, why did he eventually lower the flag?

Jim in CT 07-21-2015 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles (Post 1077359)
How could that offend anybody? I am guessing that even Spence,who is as unpatriotic as they come, would be fine with such a gesture.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It offends Obama, or he would have done it immediately. He has no interest in being the commander in chief of a military, particularly in time of war. These guys represent that group, that Obama detests, who cling to their guns and religion because they are racist and otherwise flawed.

He has zero interest, zero, in being the leader of people with traditional values. Bill Clinton knew that once he was in office it was his duty to represent everybody, and he tried hard at it. This guy couldn't care less, and his refusal to lower the flag, is irrefutable proof of that.

Think of the company you are in, if you are offended at the thought of lowering the flag to honor these guys.

Sea Dangles 07-21-2015 08:35 PM

Meanwhile
Flags have been appropriately lowered
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim in CT 07-22-2015 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles (Post 1077370)
Meanwhile
Flags have been appropriately lowered
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I'm not sure I'd use the word "appropriately", when at the White House, they were only lowered after days of outcry, and were shamed into doing it by governors who, unlike Obama, are not part of the genuine lunatic fringe in this country.

Jim in CT 07-22-2015 05:52 AM

When SCOTUS issued their gay marriage ruling, within a few hours, the White House was awash in rainbow lights. Obama ordered this spiking of the football, despite the fact that a huge number of Americans hated what the Court did, and last time I checked, Obama is supposed to represent us, too. He's not supposed to stick his tongue out at us and say "nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah, we win"..

This issue with the flag at half mast, isn't considered controversial by any meaningful number of people, and the ones who are bothered by it, are deranged. Yet he refused to do it for 5 days.

I can't think of more compelling evidence of where this guy's values lie, and how utterly at odds his values are, with those of so many Americans.

justplugit 07-22-2015 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1077363)
Come on. You think he chose not to do it (until he was shamed into doing it today) to keep us safer? Why didn't he say that? And if that was his motive, why did he eventually lower the flag?

One thing for sure, he's not clueless and has a reason to do everything
he does for his own agenda and legacy. Imho he never did ,nor ever will
represent anybody except himself.

spence 07-22-2015 04:51 PM

You guys are funny. This probably all comes down to a staffer not suggesting it sooner. And you make it into the devil's work…muhahhaahhahahahaha

As an aside. Several months ago I noticed my neighbor having left his flag out all winter continued to fly it in tatters. Not just a little frayed mind you but completely shredded. After politely asking him to take it down he begrudgingly replaced it with a new flag.

Recently he's been doing other stuff that the neighbors find offensive. I'm not going to get into it here. I did call him out on it of course.

So I just noticed this afternoon the shredded Old Glory flying off his deck just for spite.

This conversation should be interesting.

JohnR 07-22-2015 05:56 PM

Well, at least he is not burning it in spite (rather than a proper burial ceremony).

Next time you bring it up with him, offer to him that someone you know will gladly take the tattered flag off his hands and burn it in a proper Flag Retirement ceremony with our Boy Scout troop. We have several flag ceremonies per year on camping trips. The grommets are given as tokens to military and various veterans organizations.

spence 07-22-2015 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnR (Post 1077430)
Well, at least he is not burning it in spite (rather than a proper burial ceremony).

Next time you bring it up with him, offer to him that someone you know will gladly take the tattered flag off his hands and burn it in a proper Flag Retirement ceremony with our Boy Scout troop. We have several flag ceremonies per year on camping trips. The grommets are given as tokens to military and various veterans organizations.

It was a good opportunity to discuss with my 11 year old proper flag etiquette again.

I'll bring that up as an option. Thanks.

The Dad Fisherman 07-22-2015 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1077429)
You guys are funny. This probably all comes down to a staffer not suggesting it sooner. And you make it into the devil's work…muhahhaahhahahahaha

Any one of them could have looked like his son.....

Sorry, I ain't buying what you're selling there.......he completely #^&#^&#^&#^&-ing dropped the ball there and has No Excuse.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

spence 07-22-2015 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman (Post 1077432)
Sorry, I ain't buying what you're selling there.......he completely #^&#^&#^&#^&-ing dropped the ball there and has No Excuse.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I think to make that argument you'd need more data. How often is the flag lowered for recent events? How long does it usually take? Is this an anomaly or just usual business?

As Dangles noted, I'm all for honoring our fallen service members, but to claim this is an intentional diss should require some proof. Otherwise it's just partisan hay making, which may be even worse...

Jim in CT 07-22-2015 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1077429)
You guys are funny. This probably all comes down to a staffer not suggesting it sooner. And you make it into the devil's work…muhahhaahhahahahaha

As an aside. Several months ago I noticed my neighbor having left his flag out all winter continued to fly it in tatters. Not just a little frayed mind you but completely shredded. After politely asking him to take it down he begrudgingly replaced it with a new flag.

Recently he's been doing other stuff that the neighbors find offensive. I'm not going to get into it here. I did call him out on it of course.

So I just noticed this afternoon the shredded Old Glory flying off his deck just for spite.

This conversation should be interesting.

"This probably all comes down to a staffer not suggesting it sooner"

Right, these things would never occur to, say, the commander-in-chief of the guys who were killed. He was THEIR commander in chief. He needs a staffer to tell him it's a good idea to pay tribute to those killed on his watch? You know what, you're probably right, he probably is incapable of coming up with that on his own, something so simple and thoughtful and obvious.

Jim in CT 07-22-2015 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman (Post 1077432)
Any one of them could have looked like his son.....

Sorry, I ain't buying what you're selling there.......he completely #^&#^&#^&#^&-ing dropped the ball there and has No Excuse.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Obviously...

Sea Dangles 07-22-2015 07:20 PM

Spence can be his own worst enemy in discussions involving Obama. What he considers a sharp retort becomes awkwardly self serving. You do have to wonder what goes on in Obamas head in what seems to be an obvious slap to our servicemen. I sympathize with his legacy.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim in CT 07-22-2015 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles (Post 1077439)
You do have to wonder what goes on in Obamas head in what seems to be an obvious slap to our servicemen.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Same thing that went on in his head sitting in Rev Wrights "church" for 20 years. Obviously, he genuinely despises what you'd call traditional, middle American values. Obama has no use for, nor can he begin to relate to, anyone unlike himself.

spence 07-22-2015 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles (Post 1077439)
Spence can be his own worst enemy in discussions involving Obama. What he considers a sharp retort becomes awkwardly self serving. You do have to wonder what goes on in Obamas head in what seems to be an obvious slap to our servicemen. I sympathize with his legacy.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You exemplify my last post, good work.

justplugit 07-22-2015 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1077429)
You guys are funny. This probably all comes down to a staffer not suggesting it sooner.

Yeah Spence, that's gotta be it. His lowering the Flag person couldn't reach him
while he was playing golf the next day.
Marines attacked on our own soil and it takes 5 days for the staffer to reach him to give him the news.
Prolly read it in the newspaper.

spence 07-22-2015 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justplugit (Post 1077444)
Yeah Spence, that's gotta be it. His lowering the Flag person couldn't reach him
while he was playing golf the next day.
Marines attacked on our own soil and it takes 5 days for the staffer to reach him to give him the news.
Prolly read it in the newspaper.

I think that with how much the most powerful person in the world has to deal with on a daily basis, perseverance on the height of our flags is likely left to other people.

justplugit 07-22-2015 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1077446)
I think that with how much the most powerful person in the world has to deal with on a daily basis, perseverance on the height of our flags is likely left to other people.

With his supposed brilliance it should have been a given.
He can't chew gum and walk at the same time?

The Dad Fisherman 07-23-2015 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1077435)
I think to make that argument you'd need more data. How often is the flag lowered for recent events? How long does it usually take? Is this an anomaly or just usual business?

As Dangles noted, I'm all for honoring our fallen service members, but to claim this is an intentional diss should require some proof. Otherwise it's just partisan hay making, which may be even worse...

Washington Navy Yard Shooting - Sept 16 - Flag ordered lowered Sept 17 = 24 hours

Fort Hood Shooting - November 5 - Flag Ordered lowered November 6 = 24 Hours

Boston Marathon Bombing - April 15 - Flag Ordered Lowered on April 16 = 24 Hours

Newtown Shooting - December 14 - Flag Ordered Lowered on December 14 = less that 24 hours

Benghazi Attack - Sept 11 - Flag Lowered on Sept 12 = 24 Hours

Oak Creek Sikh Temple Shooting - Aug 5 - Flag Ordered Lowered Aug 6 = 24 Hours

Aurora Colorado Shooting - July 20 - Flag Ordered Lowered on July 20 = Less than 24 Hours

Tucson Arizona Shooting - Jan 8 - Flag Ordered Lowered on Jan 9 = 24 Hours


is that a good enough sample to show the time frame for such orders.....and does this blow the "Business as Usual" theory out of the water.


I also didn't say it was an Intentional Diss.....I said, and I quote, "he completely #^&#^&#^&#^&-ing dropped the ball there and has No Excuse."


and as much as I don't want to sound like Jim....Try and make that wrong

Jim in CT 07-23-2015 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman (Post 1077457)
Washington Navy Yard Shooting - Sept 16 - Flag ordered lowered Sept 17 = 24 hours

Fort Hood Shooting - November 5 - Flag Ordered lowered November 6 = 24 Hours

Boston Marathon Bombing - April 15 - Flag Ordered Lowered on April 16 = 24 Hours

Newtown Shooting - December 14 - Flag Ordered Lowered on December 14 = less that 24 hours

Benghazi Attack - Sept 11 - Flag Lowered on Sept 12 = 24 Hours

Oak Creek Sikh Temple Shooting - Aug 5 - Flag Ordered Lowered Aug 6 = 24 Hours

Aurora Colorado Shooting - July 20 - Flag Ordered Lowered on July 20 = Less than 24 Hours

Tucson Arizona Shooting - Jan 8 - Flag Ordered Lowered on Jan 9 = 24 Hours


is that a good enough sample to show the time frame for such orders.....and does this blow the "Business as Usual" theory out of the water.


I also didn't say it was an Intentional Diss.....I said, and I quote, "he completely #^&#^&#^&#^&-ing dropped the ball there and has No Excuse."


and as much as I don't want to sound like Jim....Try and make that wrong

Spence, you just got your azz handed to you. On top of that, after SCOTUS legalized gay marriage, it also just took a few hours to illuminate the White House in rainbow colors.

Spence, what is your response to this, exactly?

"I also didn't say it was an Intentional Diss"

Fine, I'll say it. It didn't occur to him initially, then Foxnews started complaining, and he wasn't going to appear to be taking orders from Sean Hannity, so he stubbornly refused to give the order, until the governors (even liberal democrats) shamed him into doing it.

"as I don't want to sound like Jim"

Well that's a little harsh, IMHO.

JohnR 07-23-2015 07:02 AM

I wouldn't think an intentional diss, more like a semi-intitutionalized-directed disregard. Even if it is a fall through the cracks (should not be) it is too much.

For an administration that has a protocol for a lot of things, surely there is a coordinator for something like this for a nation supposedly at war for almost a decade and a half

The Dad Fisherman 07-23-2015 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1077459)
Well that's a little harsh, IMHO.

Its not all Puppy Dogs and Rainbows here..... :hihi:

Jim in CT 07-23-2015 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman (Post 1077461)
Its not all Puppy Dogs and Rainbows here..... :hihi:

Fair enough!

Jim in CT 07-23-2015 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnR (Post 1077460)
I wouldn't think an intentional diss, more like a semi-intitutionalized-directed disregard. Even if it is a fall through the cracks (should not be) it is too much.

For an administration that has a protocol for a lot of things, surely there is a coordinator for something like this for a nation supposedly at war for almost a decade and a half

I don't know that he did it maliciously. i just don't think he has any appreciation, nor any concern, for the way that normal peopl efeel about such things.

When Nixon won a 49-state rout, there was an editor at the New York Times (I need to look up her name) who famously said "I can't believe he won, I don't know anyone who voted for him". The man won 49 out of 50 states, and this women, who was a big-shot at the NYT, never saw it coming, and couldn't understand how it was possible.

These people, the liberal swells, tend to surround themselves with like-minded people, drinking hot toddies on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, discussing poetry and existentialism. They are guilty of solipsism, unable to grasp that the whole world isn't exactly like them. They have absolutely no idea, nor could they care less, about people with whom they disagree.

JohnR 07-23-2015 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1077465)
I don't know that he did it maliciously. i just don't think he has any appreciation, nor any concern, for the way that normal peopl efeel about such things.

I disagree, there is a staff of people (Office) that handle various coordination between the Military and the White House. So while "O" likely did not do this intentionally himself, someone brought this to someone and was told to shut up, not now, or kicked the can down the road for someone else to bother with it.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1077465)
These people, the liberal swells, tend to surround themselves with like-minded people, drinking hot toddies on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, discussing poetry and existentialism. They are guilty of solipsism, unable to grasp that the whole world isn't exactly like them. They have absolutely no idea, nor could they care less, about people with whom they disagree.

Yes, Flyover country. Oddly, where Spence is from ;)

Jim in CT 07-23-2015 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnR (Post 1077467)
I disagree, there is a staff of people (Office) that handle various coordination between the Military and the White House. So while "O" likely did not do this intentionally himself, someone brought this to someone and was told to shut up, not now, or kicked the can down the road for someone else to bother with it.


I agree with everything you are saying. Lots of speculation. But we all know that Obama knows what happened in Tennessee. He's the commander-in-chief, he's their commander-in-chief. Ultimately the buck stops with him (at least it did for the first 43 presidents). But I would genuinely like to know, did he actually deny someone's request to give the order, or did it never come up?

Who knows.

More good news, latest Quinnipiac University polls show Hilary is tanking big-time in all but the bluest states. I am dying to know what Joe Biden is going to do. This is the political opportunity he's been waiting fopr his whole life.

Fly Rod 07-23-2015 09:32 AM

Jim nothing wrong with your neighbor flying a tattered flag only the way it is suppose to be detroyed...maybe U should have bought a flag and gave it to him in a friendly gesture since U R so concerned....U and your neighbors may have other issues with him/her...

By the way Marine U flying a flag year round?

The Dad Fisherman 07-23-2015 10:01 AM

If the flag looks like crap....Per the US Flag Code...

"The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning."

and if he's flying it all winter, I hope he's taking it down at night or at least has a light on it.

US Flag Code

"It is the universal custom to display the flag only from sunrise to sunset on buildings and on stationary flagstaffs in the open. However, when a patriotic effect is desired, the flag may be displayed twenty-four hours a day if properly illuminated during the hours of darkness."

spence 07-23-2015 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1077459)
Spence, you just got your azz handed to you. On top of that, after SCOTUS legalized gay marriage, it also just took a few hours to illuminate the White House in rainbow colors.

Spence, what is your response to this, exactly?

Actually he just validated my point. Given the Obama Administration appears to have a consistent pattern in regards to flying the flag, one would likely assume this was just an oversight by someone else...unless there's information otherwise which I don't believe there is.

It's fake outrage that fits the narrative of Obama not loving this country because of his Kenyan sensibilities.


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