PP - Thread Split Off Topic - derailment
 

Thread split (more like derailment)

Have you given Ben Carson a look? I don't think he has a prayer, but my God, the guy is impressive. He went to Harlem yesterday, and told people in Harlem (talk about going into the belly of the beast) and told them that it's not white republicans who are to blame for their problems, but rather the liberal policy "of not showing us respect, not treating us like equals, but patting us on the head and treating us like pets. That's what happens when they don't respect you, but take care of you, so that in turn, you will take care of them". Heroically, he likened liberal policies to Lyndon Johnson's famous statement "if we give these n's free stuff, they'll vote for us for 200 years". He also said that the only solution is to embrace the only values that matter, family and faith.

Brave, and very intellectually honest.

I always liked him. A bright guy who seems very honest and trustworthy.

He gave a great answer on his abortion position very recently. He said that he worked most of hi scareer as a pediatric neurosurgeon, an dthat he couldn't count ho wmany times he and his team fought all night long, giving everything they had, to save critical babies, sometimes who were still in the womb. So he said that no one should be shocked that he's not in favor of killing babies for convenience.

I thought it was a fair, honest answer.

He just comes across as a decent, honest, thoughtful man.

So neither of you have any problems with his research on tissue from aborted fetus'?

A tough but fair question.

I don't think most people have a problem with performing medical research on corpses, even babies. I have no quarel with that. But I would assume that those folks died of natural causes or an accident. I also assume, as the law requires, that fetal corpses used for research, were not manipulated while still alive, for the specific reason of maximizing harvestable tissue. Finally, what sickened a lot of folks about PP, was the absolute callousness with which they discussed such things, but in my opinion, you need to have something deeply wrong with you to do that for a living, so maybe it's not that surprising.

If it matters, Carson is denying that he ever performed research on fetal tissue. His surgeries. done in the effort to save lives, were sometimes used as a source for scientific research. He has no ethical issue with that research, but claims he has never been involved.

Today was the first I heard of that.
He is being interviewed tonight so I will wait to see what he has to say
before I pass judgment.

Saw an interview, he adamantly denied ever doing research, though he stated he has no ethical quarrels with research of fetal tissue, as long as it is acquired in an ethical way. He had some real words about Planned Parenthood and their founder, Margaret Sanger, an unapologetic, loathsome racist.

No he isn't. He simply detached his research from how the tissue was obtained.

He's a massive hypocrite.
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That was my thought. Just say that you've changed your mind in the 20 years since you did it.
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PaulS That was my thought.




great example...this could easily sink his chances and the details aren't all that clear as it's only been a few days, but Hillary and others can lie, cheat, steal and be a "massive hypocrite" for decades and still get the nomination....funny what becomes "qualities and assets" when you sit on the other side of the aisle

In the interview I saw, I think he said that while his surgeries sometimes provided fetal tissue for research, he didn't do any research on tissue.

Is there proof he lied? I would genuinely like to know.

Boy, are you selective in your willingness to hold politicians to any standard of ethics...

WHat was Hilary when she claimed she came under sniper fire, misunderstood? Quoted out of context? Or did she never make such a claim, she's just the victim of another vast right wing conspiracy?

I didn't say he lied, I said he was a hypocrite.

you routinely support and defend the biggest hypocrite on the planet...ole' "shared sacrafice"...so i guess you're saying Carson has at least one quality that you like in a president :claps: if we can catch him in some lies....that would be two

I'm wondering, in all honesty, where is the hypocrisy?

Are you saying it's hypocritical for a doctor to perform research on fetal tissue, yet be critical of what Planned Parenthood did? I don't think that's hypocritical at all, because what horrified folks about PP was how that tissue is harvested, and the possibility (far from a certainty) that laws were broken if abortion procedures were altered or profits were made.

I keep forgetting, do you concede that Hilary lied about the sniper thing?

Now that's funny right there...

Show me one polotician that is not a hypocrite.
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Yes, and in addition to the one I saw, he said he did not do any research but was mentioned in the paper because he sent tissue from the process of neurosurgery at John Hopkins, therefore being mentioned in the paper.

The man is a neurosurgeon not an OB/Gyn who would be the ones doing the majority of abortions.

In 1992 Ben Carson did research with fetal tissue obtained from abortion.

c'mon Spence...with all of your context, massaging of truth, diversion and cheerleading for scallywags....you can do much better than a simple minded low information voter statement like that.....

For whatever it's worth, I think he is saying that is not true. Unless his denial referred to sometihng else.

He also said in the interview this week, that he had no ethical quarrel with doing research on fetal tissue. I don't think that's necessarily inconsistent, with being appalled at the PP videos. There are legal/ethical ways to obtain tissue, and unethical/illegal ways.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/politi...rch/index.html
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Jim, where does fetal tissue come from?

It doesn't all come from planned parenthood. We had a mid-term miscarriage a few years ago, it was of the type which, sorry for being blunt, required the removal of the tissue from my wife. We gave consent for the tissue to be used for research, if it was found that there was any value to it. I see notihng unethical with that tissue being used, but I hate what Planned Parenthood was discussing on the videos. I don't think that makes me a hypocrite.

I'm an organ donor. That doesn't mean I want someone to pull the plug on me early, or to alter my treatment at all, just so they can get a more bountiful harvest. "Hey Jim, we're suffering a shortage of brains for research, so we're going to hang you upside down until you die, to get more blood into your brain, that will be better for research."

Some people prefer to let nature take its course.

And Planned Parenthood isn't the only abortion provider.

You keep insisting they're trying to push abortions to get more tissue, the law prohibits that. So far we've not sees anything that indicates a violation of the law.

I never said they push abortions to get more tissue. Can you point to where I said that?

What I said, and it's supported by the videotapes, is that they alter abortion procedures for the specific intent of maximizing the harvest. That is illegal under federal law, and I don't see how anyone could watch those tapes, and not conclude that the PP staff is confessing to that crime. Maybe they didn't actually do it, maybe they were being dishonest on the video. But the videos clearly show that they claimed that they re-position the fetus before it is killed, to maximize the useful tissue/organs. That is a violation of federal law.

I don't think I'm saying it clearly. But in at least one video, the PP lady was very specific about how they position the baby a specific was before it is killed. That's against the law.

You're not listening.

I'm trying.

Forget about doingabortions for harvest, forget about doing it for profit. Focus on one thing - the fact that federal law prohibits any abortion from being altered for the purposes of harvesting tissue. You cannot change th way you do an abortion, simply because you want more harvestable tissue afterward.

Said one PP staffer, Melissa Farrell, director of research, said this on tape..."so IF WE ALTER OUR PROCESS, and we are able to obtain intact fetal cadavers, then we can make it part of the budget"

That indicates to me, that PP may be violating the law, which says one cannot alter the procedure for that reason.

Please tell me what I am not hearing...

If say Jim is winning this argument. However the role of planned parenthood and its services outweigh the desire to cut funding.

I'd be much more in favor of forced sterilization of males and females that have not moved off of welfare for more than 5 years.
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There are multiple methods of abortion that are all acceptable under what's considered a standard process. If the doctor deems the method chosen doesn't negatively impact the woman or alter the timing then this wouldn't be a violation of the law.

Of course, the video edits all this out.

Also remember the remark about line items was prompted by the imposters trying to get a higher selling price for impact. Again in the edited video they don't show the PP representative stating this would have to be broken out in the budget so it didn't appear as though they were selling the fetal tissue at a higher price.

The weekend is here - this is closed until Monday at 8:00.

For Jim to win any argument he'd have to take an objective look.

Into the GOP talking points handbook ?
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"I'd be much more in favor of forced sterilization of males and females that have not moved off of welfare for more than 5 years"

Amen, brother.

As for PP, there are lots of female health organizations that aren't engaged in this sick activity. Let's cut funding for PP, and give that money to those other groups.

PP was also founded by Margaret Sanger, an extreme racist even by Klan standards, she really wanted to eradicate blacks. PP is doing a great job toward that goal.

Abortion has its place. A woman is raped and gets pregnant... I'm pretty sure I'd give that one the green light. A woman in her 40's has a brain dead fetus... And is going to lead a life as a vegetable. I say go for it.

These are horrible choices, but these are choices that a woman should be allowed to make. One of the best sayings I have heard about abortion is if you are against them, then don't have one.
Our constitutional rights guarantee us personal liberties and freedoms that allow this practice to happen and who cares what the original founder's motives were? If PP is defended and closes, I guarantee you that we will see back ally coat hanger abortions skyrocket. It's a sad truth.
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I love Paul, nicely done...everybody go fishing :lm:

😊
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Rape is a very low % of abortions in this country. The vast majority in this country, are done for sheer convenience, to healthy women who have had consensual sex. It's repugnant. Rape is a different moral dilemma, as are situations when the moms life is in danger, which thankfully almost never happens.

"One of the best sayings I have heard about abortion is if you are against them, then don't have one."

I hear that a lot. I think it's idiotic. How about if I say "if you're against arson, then don't light fires, but don't tell me I can't burn down a building". That's what laws are foe. Most people would never do terrible things, but we still need laws.

"Our constitutional rights guarantee us personal liberties "

True. You show me where the Constitution mentions the word "abortion", and I will agree that it's a constitutional right. What the constitution does guarantee is the right to free exercise of religion. Tell that to the Christian bakers getting persecuted by our POTUS Weird Harold.

"If PP is defended and closes, I guarantee you that we will see back ally coat hanger abortions skyrocket. It's a sad truth" We don't make evil things legal just to save those who participate. People get killed robbing banks, that's a sad truth. Is that an argument to legalize bank robbery?

"is going to lead a life as a vegetable. I say go for it. "

What if someday, someone decides that you have no value?