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-   -   Would you support Martial Law? (http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showthread.php?t=96252)

basswipe 03-13-2020 08:35 AM

Yes or no.

The Dad Fisherman 03-13-2020 11:24 AM

No
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Slipknot 03-13-2020 11:31 AM

The only people to answer yes to that question would be the control freaks or feeble defenseless weaklings who depend on Government to wipe their butts. so take that as a HELL no

spence 03-13-2020 12:22 PM

Who’s calling for martial law? Don’t give Trump the idea please...
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Nebe 03-13-2020 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1187740)
Who’s calling for martial law? Don’t give Trump the idea please...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

“In this beautiful emergency is like to announce martial law and cancel elections this year until 2035.

Case closed. “
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Sea Dangles 03-13-2020 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1187740)
Who’s calling for martial law? Don’t give Trump the idea please...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Just a hypothetical question Jeff,sorry for the confusion.
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wdmso 03-13-2020 04:45 PM

Is declaring a national emergency walking down that road...

Easy answer .. not for this virus at this time, but if descend into chaos we'll re visit

basswipe 04-06-2020 01:56 PM

Curfews and ankle bracelets enforced by the judiciary under the direction of Democratic governors.Welcome to the new liberal world.
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basswipe 04-06-2020 03:23 PM

But that's ok with PaulS he'll take his in dark to match his tan.

PaulS 04-06-2020 04:22 PM

I think most of the people here laugh at the majority of the threads you try to start.

Sad.

basswipe 04-06-2020 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulS (Post 1190228)
I think most of the people here laugh at the majority of the threads you try to start.

Sad.

Not really because I post Truth.

The only thing sad is your undying devotion to stupidity and lies.

Nebe 04-06-2020 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basswipe (Post 1190230)
Not really because I post Truth.

The only thing sad is your undying devotion to stupidity and lies.

I’m laughing.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

PaulS 04-06-2020 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebe (Post 1190231)
I’m laughing.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I usually laugh at all of his posts here.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Pete F. 04-06-2020 05:40 PM

Look at Hungary and Orban if you want to worry about someone seizing control of a now former democracy.
I don’t see the parallels with the left, they have never been able to agree enough to develop that much power.
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basswipe 04-06-2020 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebe (Post 1190231)
I’m laughing.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I would to.PaulS is a funny guy.

PaulS 04-06-2020 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basswipe (Post 1190251)
I would to.PaulS is a funny guy.

I don't know if you realize this when he quotes your post and says he's laughing that means he's laughing at you.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

detbuch 04-06-2020 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1190250)
Look at Hungary and Orban if you want to worry about someone seizing control of a now former democracy.
I don’t see the parallels with the left, they have never been able to agree enough to develop that much power.
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I thought Orban was fulfilling the wishes of the majority of the Hungarian people. He was duly elected wasn't he? What is the undemocratic power that he has developed? Is hungry no longer a democracy?

Pete F. 04-06-2020 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1190255)
I thought Orban was fulfilling the wishes of the majority of the Hungarian people. He was duly elected wasn't he? What is the undemocratic power that he has developed? Is hungry no longer a democracy?

No, it’s just Hungary first not rule by one man with no limits on power.

Peter Marki Zay was confused when he heard on Wednesday that he might be stripped of his executive authority as the mayor of Hodmezovasarhely, a city in south-eastern Hungary.

Local officials had earlier been told that to fight a rapidly spreading coronavirus pandemic, they should dispense with council meetings and make speedy decisions themselves. But then the nationalist government of prime minister Viktor Orban tabled a bill in parliament to subject every mayoral decision to review and approval by county panels, mostly appointees from the ruling Fidesz party.

To opposition politicians like Mr Marki Zay as well as civil rights campaigners and Mr Orban’s many critics across Europe, the move was proof that Hungary’s self-styled “illiberal democrat” leader was using the cover of a public health crisis to stifle any remaining opposition to his rule rather than fight a health emergency.
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spence 04-06-2020 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1190255)
I thought Orban was fulfilling the wishes of the majority of the Hungarian people. He was duly elected wasn't he? What is the undemocratic power that he has developed? Is hungry no longer a democracy?

You don’t think it is quite possible a democracy would duly elect an un democratic leader? Asking for a friend...
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PaulS 12-20-2020 02:16 PM

I think Trump saw this thread

wdmso 12-22-2020 05:32 PM

Funny all the hell no’s Are now silent on the topic Since Trump lost the election their silence seems to be saying hell yes .. because I am not seeing any follow ups hell no’s
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Slipknot 12-22-2020 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1206938)
Funny all the hell no’s Are now silent on the topic Since Trump lost the election their silence seems to be saying hell yes .. because I am not seeing any follow ups hell no’s
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not sure what the heck you are talking about but my answer has not changed in the least.

The Dad Fisherman 12-22-2020 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slipknot (Post 1206949)
not sure what the heck you are talking about but my answer has not changed in the least.

Nobody is.
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zimmy 12-23-2020 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slipknot (Post 1187731)
The only people to answer yes to that question would be the control freaks or feeble defenseless weaklings who depend on Government to wipe their butts. so take that as a HELL no

In reality, the only people to answer yes are Trump advisors and some of his sheep. It is unbelievably lucky that our system is strong. If he were in power in under different circumstances, these would be likely be some of the darkest days of modern history. He is how fascism comes to exist.
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scottw 12-23-2020 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimmy (Post 1206971)

If he were in power in under different circumstances, these would be likely be some of the darkest days of modern history. He is how fascism comes to exist.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

this is a little dramatic....

Got Stripers 12-23-2020 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimmy (Post 1206971)
In reality, the only people to answer yes are Trump advisors and some of his sheep. It is unbelievably lucky that our system is strong. If he were in power in under different circumstances, these would be likely be some of the darkest days of modern history. He is how fascism comes to exist.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

^^^^^^^

detbuch 12-23-2020 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimmy (Post 1206971)
In reality, the only people to answer yes are Trump advisors and some of his sheep. It is unbelievably lucky that our system is strong. If he were in power in under different circumstances, these would be likely be some of the darkest days of modern history. He is how fascism comes to exist.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You got it half right. Or less.

scottw 12-24-2020 04:37 AM

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

if you replace "far right" and "ultranationalism"

who acts more like fascists...the democtats or republicans...the left or the right?



Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of modern leftist, authoritarian globalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

Pete F. 12-24-2020 07:08 AM

I found some opinion that reinforces the Tweety is not a Facist theory

1: The economy.

Fascist regimes grew in a world with limited international trade and with a capitalism that many viewed as moribund, which gave national governments enormous leeway to shape economies with everything from state-led industrialization projects to the Mefo bills that helped to fund the rearmament program of the Nazis. Today we live in a world of global capitalism for better or worse, and international trade is deeply ingrained into our economies. Trump tried to tweak the rules of the global economy here and there, but there was no push for the autarky model so dear to the heart of many Fascists. As a result, the fundamentals of the U.S. economy remain unchanged. When economic historians come to assess Trump’s impact, they will talk about the loss of fiscal revenue, the costs of his trade wars for U.S. consumers, and the pandemic and otherwise conclude that it did not make much of a difference.

2: The threat to capitalism (or lack thereof).

Fascism grew against the backdrop of Bolshevism and the perceived threat of a communist revolution. Scholars have shown for numerous countries that the threat was often exaggerated – but it did exist and genuinely scared the bourgeoisie. But that fear subsided in the decades after World War Two, which saw the golden years of Western capitalism. People enjoyed the fruits of mass consumption while things went downhill for socialism: it gradually lost its shine, its legitimacy, and its hold on power, and no Western country seriously considered going socialist over the last 30 years. During the interwar years, Fascist and other governments had to reckon with a Soviet Union that spread its tentacles around the world, but that Soviet Union is no more since 1991, and there is nothing that can take its place. Venezuela and Cuba will not bring global capitalism down.
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Pete F. 12-24-2020 07:10 AM

3: Demography.

Trump thrived on the grievances in a white population that faces demographic marginalization in an increasingly multicultural society, which is unlike anything that underpinned Fascist societies. Hitler never feared demographic marginalization from Germany’s Jews because they accounted for less than one percent of the population. Trump’s hardline immigration policy was the exact opposite of the policy of Fascist Italy, which sought to curb outward migration of Italians to the Americas. To be sure, Trump’s immigration crackdown is open to criticism on several grounds, but it’s really small change compared to the Nuremberg Laws.
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Pete F. 12-24-2020 07:11 AM

4: In the Western world, we are all children of the human rights revolution of the post-war years.

There is a plethora of laws, agreements and court decisions that counter discrimination based on race, ethnicity, gender, sexual identity, and disability, and it has created a new moral universe. We can see the consequences in the repeated efforts of the Trump administration to blame others for antisemitism, racism, gender bias, and in Trump’s claim that he did more for the black community than any other president except Abraham Lincoln. Now that claim is patently absurd – but Hitler never claimed to have done anything for the Jewish community.
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Pete F. 12-24-2020 07:11 AM

5. There is a global dimension to the human rights revolution that makes for another stark difference between Trump and Fascism.

For all its ugliness, the impact of Fascist rule was largely limited to the places where they came into power and the places that they attacked or conquered. Trump resonated around the world, and while he has done enormous damage to the soul of American society, the real victims live elsewhere: in Egypt, in Hong Kong, in Duterte’s Philippines, in Orban’s Hungary, and in many other places where authoritarian regimes are eroding human rights. Nation-states are no longer distinct containers, and thanks to Trump, every crackpot dictator facing a tough election can point to this precedent.
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Pete F. 12-24-2020 07:12 AM

6. The power of events that never happened.

For the first three years, Trump did not face a major crisis that he did not cause himself, and when his luck changed in year four, the crisis came in the form of a pandemic that he was unable to use for political gain. There was nothing similar to the Reichstag on fire that allowed Hitler to suspend the rule of law, or the murder of Giacomo Matteotti that put Fascist Italy on the path towards Mussolini’s dictatorship, though it is not difficult to imagine pertinent scenarios. What would have happened in the event of a 9/11-style terrorist attack, or a well-timed Russian invasion of a Baltic country, or if Iran had blocked the Strait of Hormuz? It will be impossible to know, but we can be glad that these events never happened.
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Pete F. 12-24-2020 07:13 AM

7. While fate did not intervene in Trump’s presidency until the pandemic, the rule of law did.

There is quite a list of Trump affiliates who ended up in court: Michael Cohen, Rick Gates, Michael Flynn, Roger Stone, Paul Manafort. The president’s own charity, the Trump Foundation, is undergoing court-ordered dissolution, and various lawsuits are on hold until Trump leaves the White House. Nothing similar happened to a Fascist leader. Quite the contrary, their rule built on a judiciary and an administrative state that went along. Hitler had the crown jurist of the Third Reich, Carl Schmitt, who published his infamous essay “The Führer Protects the Law” – der Führer schützt das Recht – after the Night of Long Knifes. Trump has Rudy Giuliani. Case closed.
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Pete F. 12-24-2020 07:14 AM

8. Money for the dear leader.

Say what you will about Hitler and Mussolini, but at least they never tried to cash in with a posh hotel in the capital. For Trump, making money was clearly a prime motivation when he entered the race for the presidency in 2015, if not the only one, and one of the last remaining mysteries of the Trump presidency is about the extent of his personal corruption and whether it will ever be investigated in appropriate fashion. Fascist regimes had their share of corruption – it inevitably thrives in authoritarian regimes – but if you compare Trump’s golden elevator with the legendary frugality of Portuguese dictator Antonio Salazar, the contrast speaks for itself.

As an aside, looking at Trump and his monetary interests makes for an interesting twist in a historical assessment. It is one of the ironies of calling Trump a Fascist that it finally vindicates the orthodox Marxist view that Fascism was mere camouflage for the rule of the bourgeoisie. It never really worked for Hitler and Mussolini, who clearly were more than mere stooges in the service of the capitalists. But if you have a billionaire who saves plenty of money with a big tax cut, supported by other billionaires like the Koch brothers who also profited in a big way, you can almost hear the Marxists of the interwar years shouting from their graves: see, that is what we were talking about all these years.

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Pete F. 12-24-2020 07:16 AM

9. There was a glaring intellectual vacuum at the heart of Trump’s rule.

When Hitler, Mussolini, Salazar and Franco came to power, they knew exactly what they wanted to do. Trump never had an agenda beyond his own financial interests and his vanity, and into the vacuum came the orthodoxy of the Republican party since the Reagan years: tax cuts for the rich, conservative justices for the judiciary, and the casual strangulation of the regulatory state. Trumpism is an ideology that never was, an empty signifier that provided thin camouflage for a ruler who never cared about his people. The Nazi Party was never too religious about its 25 point party platform of 1920 – but at least it had a platform. The Republican party declined to adopt a new platform at its 2020 convention and simply used their platform from 2016, and when Trump was asked about his goals for the second term, the answer was mushy even by his own generous standards.

Rush Limbaugh receiving the Congressional Medal of Honor

These points come down to an obvious point: against the backdrop of Fascism in the interwar years, it does not make any sense to speak of Trump as a Fascist. But there is a second point that is perhaps less obvious. Viewing Trump through this lens also provides us with a terribly insufficient idea about democracy and what we need to do in order to save it. In his book On Tyranny, Timothy Snyder offers the following as one of twenty lessons from the twentieth century: “defend institutions.”[2] On first glance, it makes perfect sense. If it were not for civil servants like Alexander Vindman, the whistleblower on Trump’s shenanigans with Ukraine, and the checks and balances from the federal bureaucracy, the states, and the judiciary, we would probably be in a very dark place by now. But should we really heap praise on the American system of law and order? After all, this is the same judiciary that put more than two million American citizens behind bars, the highest incarceration rate per capita in the world, where access to a well-paid lawyer and the color of one’s skin makes a world of difference, and where decisions on many important matters are delayed ad nauseam. Is that an institution that we should defend in the name of democracy? If anything, we should seek to change it in the name of democracy.

Thinking about democracy and Fascism invites thinking in black-and-white mode: it’s about democracy or authoritarian rule, institutions or anarchy, Biden or Trump. But a living democracy is rarely about black and white. It is about compromise, about a balance between different interests, and that makes for many different shades of gray. Democracy is complicated, a kind of decathlon with different events that require different skills, and there is no guarantee that it all fits together. But you would not know that from looking at Fascism.

Donald Trump addresses a military audience from in front of a giant US flag

So is it wrong to call Trump a Fascist? The question misses the crucial point. The ghosts of the twentieth century are still with us, and so is the moral shame that goes along with that epithet. But while it may not be morally wrong to call Trump a Fascist, it is obviously not very clever, and maybe that matters more as we look to the future. The last four years have shown the weakness of democracy, particularly when it is challenged by someone like Trump. Democracy does not look as decisive as the strongmen of our times, it is not terribly entertaining (and often pretty boring), and democracy looks rather helpless in the face of widespread anger. But here is one thing that you can say in defense of democracy: it can be really smart – way smarter than the intellectual deadwood that was pervasive in the Trump administration.

So this is my tenth and final point by way of comparing the Fascists and Trump: unlike the outgoing president, the Fascists were not dumb – as shown in the fact that they were smart enough to set an entire continent ablaze. Being smart is not a privilege of democracies, but it works the other way around: it is hard to imagine a thriving democracy full of dumb people. And maybe that is something that we should keep in mind as we search for a path through the rubble that the last four years have left behind. If we want to keep the flame of democracy alive, we need to get smart about Fascism, get smart about Trump – and get smart about what democracy really is.
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detbuch 12-24-2020 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1207010)
9. There was a glaring intellectual vacuum at the heart of Trump’s rule.

When Hitler, Mussolini, Salazar and Franco came to power, they knew exactly what they wanted to do. Trump never had an agenda beyond his own financial interests and his vanity, and into the vacuum came the orthodoxy of the Republican party since the Reagan years: tax cuts for the rich, conservative justices for the judiciary, and the casual strangulation of the regulatory state. Trumpism is an ideology that never was, an empty signifier that provided thin camouflage for a ruler who never cared about his people. The Nazi Party was never too religious about its 25 point party platform of 1920 – but at least it had a platform. The Republican party declined to adopt a new platform at its 2020 convention and simply used their platform from 2016, and when Trump was asked about his goals for the second term, the answer was mushy even by his own generous standards.

Rush Limbaugh receiving the Congressional Medal of Honor

These points come down to an obvious point: against the backdrop of Fascism in the interwar years, it does not make any sense to speak of Trump as a Fascist. But there is a second point that is perhaps less obvious. Viewing Trump through this lens also provides us with a terribly insufficient idea about democracy and what we need to do in order to save it. In his book On Tyranny, Timothy Snyder offers the following as one of twenty lessons from the twentieth century: “defend institutions.”[2] On first glance, it makes perfect sense. If it were not for civil servants like Alexander Vindman, the whistleblower on Trump’s shenanigans with Ukraine, and the checks and balances from the federal bureaucracy, the states, and the judiciary, we would probably be in a very dark place by now. But should we really heap praise on the American system of law and order? After all, this is the same judiciary that put more than two million American citizens behind bars, the highest incarceration rate per capita in the world, where access to a well-paid lawyer and the color of one’s skin makes a world of difference, and where decisions on many important matters are delayed ad nauseam. Is that an institution that we should defend in the name of democracy? If anything, we should seek to change it in the name of democracy.

Thinking about democracy and Fascism invites thinking in black-and-white mode: it’s about democracy or authoritarian rule, institutions or anarchy, Biden or Trump. But a living democracy is rarely about black and white. It is about compromise, about a balance between different interests, and that makes for many different shades of gray. Democracy is complicated, a kind of decathlon with different events that require different skills, and there is no guarantee that it all fits together. But you would not know that from looking at Fascism.

Donald Trump addresses a military audience from in front of a giant US flag

So is it wrong to call Trump a Fascist? The question misses the crucial point. The ghosts of the twentieth century are still with us, and so is the moral shame that goes along with that epithet. But while it may not be morally wrong to call Trump a Fascist, it is obviously not very clever, and maybe that matters more as we look to the future. The last four years have shown the weakness of democracy, particularly when it is challenged by someone like Trump. Democracy does not look as decisive as the strongmen of our times, it is not terribly entertaining (and often pretty boring), and democracy looks rather helpless in the face of widespread anger. But here is one thing that you can say in defense of democracy: it can be really smart – way smarter than the intellectual deadwood that was pervasive in the Trump administration.

So this is my tenth and final point by way of comparing the Fascists and Trump: unlike the outgoing president, the Fascists were not dumb – as shown in the fact that they were smart enough to set an entire continent ablaze. Being smart is not a privilege of democracies, but it works the other way around: it is hard to imagine a thriving democracy full of dumb people. And maybe that is something that we should keep in mind as we search for a path through the rubble that the last four years have left behind. If we want to keep the flame of democracy alive, we need to get smart about Fascism, get smart about Trump – and get smart about what democracy really is.

The ten points suit your style--silly opinionated pronouncements offered as facts spiced with destructive sarcasm which all amount to an "If" and a call, unlike his pronouncements, to get smart, as if we're dummies and he knows it all.

But if you believe that crap, then at least you won't call Trump a fascist anymore. Well . . . on the other hand, you lie a lot.

scottw 12-24-2020 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1207036)
The ten points suit your style--silly opinionated pronouncements offered as facts spiced with destructive sarcasm which all amount to an "If" and a call, unlike his pronouncements, to get smart, as if we're dummies and he knows it all.

But if you believe that crap, then at least you won't call Trump a fascist anymore. Well . . . on the other hand, you lie a lot.

Pete is working super extra hard
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Pete F. 12-24-2020 04:04 PM

I think it’s a wonderful counterpoint to ‘Trump’s a fascist’
Just keep believing, boyz
My work is almost done, just a few weeks left....

GOP official: “The Trump tantrum has nothing to do with check size or spending—he was fully aware of the the negotiations carried out in his behalf by Meadows and Mnuchin and never said a peep. This is about McConnell and Thune acknowledging the inevitable.
When it comes to venting rage and seeking revenge vs. millions losing unemployment the day after Christmas and millions losing apartments and millions of small businesses going under, there is no contest: his ego always comes first.”
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detbuch 12-24-2020 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1207040)
My work is almost done, just a few weeks left....

Good news! What a relief!


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