What the Flynn case can tell us about the FBI and our justice system.
 

Yeah, it's a Stefan Molyneux video, but he says very little. It's a legal scalpel disection by Robert Barnes of how Flynn was "entrapped" into admitting guilt when he was not guilty. But the real enlightenment is the how, who, and why such things are done, with lots of historical legal information and why it is important that it is exposed and that the bad actors are brought to justice.

Aside, wdmso please do not watch or comment on the video. Also, please, to those who don't watch the video, or don't want to discuss the content but simply want to attack Mr. Barnes, Please just don't comment. For those who are interested, watch, enjoy, and learn.

It is 54 minutes but is so interesting that the time kind of flies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoXCB1lx6aA

This is really something if reports are true. A note from the assistant director before the first interview with Flynn, where he asks his peers "what's the goal here - truth/admission or getting him to lie so he can be prosecuted or fired"?

If the FBI can decide ahead of time that they're going to "get" the national security advisor who served honorably in war, what can they do to a regular guy?

It would appear as if they decided ahead of time that he was guilty.

whats to watch? General Flynn pled Guilty in a court of Law why are you not addressing that Fact... :crying::crying::crying:

Jim everyone in this country is considered guilty or they would never end up in court ....

innocent until proven guilty is a catch phrase in America

Ask OJ to some he still is guilty

The video does address that fact.

what if ( and this is a big if still) he was set up at the outset, and they threatened to prosecute his son if he didn’t take a deal?

did you see the content of the note written by the assistant director? “get him to lie”....not see if he lied in the past under oath, but “get him” to lie, so that he can be prosecuted or fired?

shocker that your instinct is to stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes, and take the anti trump position, without knowing what happened.
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it's almost exactly like OJ :doh:

Instinct hell it's common sense ..


Get him to lie ? jim I or the FBI can not make you lie .. you lied or you did not lie

I'd did not have sexual relations with that women... a lie

And threats to prosecution his Son .. I guess he may have done something that he could be charged for.. you don't think this tactic isnt used across law enforcement

You Trump people have your fingers in Trumps hole since this all started , that nothing happened with the Russian or in Ukraine. That's it's all been a deep state plot ,, you all even think the judge is in on it ...


What I love about this is you and others willingness to rationalize and minimize what Flynn was doing . But you response to an email server is 180 degrees in the other direction with your response ... to that... with similar a complaint. The deep state FBI didn't investigate it was a crime the conspiracy it was taken to Ukraine so on and so forth... yelling lock her up...

Your side has no credibility they make their outlandish suggestions and theories
Conducted investigation.. and still the best th they come up with is more of the same... Bengiza , Clinton's emails , Bidens son , flynn. Hydroxychloroquine, Still pushing the china created the virus didn't pan out let's go with the lab escape thing

.. it's a clear pattern for Republicans they huff and the puff and never blow anything down...

Trump 2020
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"the FBI can not make you lie "

true. But (and being in law enforcement I'd have thought you could at least get this one topic correct, but nope), the police cant create a situation to entice you to commit a crime that you wouldn't have otherwise committed. That's called entrapment, and it's not allowed, and for good reason.

"the goal" of an investigative body, is supposed to be to impartially investigate what happened. not to "get" someone prosecuted or fired.

"Your side has no credibility "

US Attorney John Durham, who cleaned up the Boston Justice Department when Whitey Bulger had everyone under his thumb, has "no credibility"? We'll see.

"Still pushing the china created the virus didn't pan out let's go with the lab escape thing"

So in your opinion, China was forthcoming to the world with needed details of the virus?

"Republicans they huff and the puff and never blow anything down"

Tell that to the "Hilary For President" campaign.

the police cant create a situation to entice you to commit a crime that you wouldn't have otherwise committed. That's called entrapment, and it's not allowed, and for good reason.

Yrs that's true ..but that didn't happen here. Did it

the notes show that FBI agents offered him every opportunity to come clean, even reminding him of a possible contact with Russians regarding the United Nations. The interview record “shows Flynn’s lies were direct and knowing,”

“There was nothing sneaky or circuitous about the agents' questioning. They served it up to him directly, and he responded with direct lies.”

You huffed you puffed and as usual you failed to once again to provide any supporting evidence :thanks: talked about no credibility. Defending Liars whether its Trump or Flynn it's amazing the lengths you'll go to defend this administration.

Jim for you and all the deep state believers ...

l read this about the flynn case .. and makes the point you got served a nothing burger


Nothing that has come out suggests the facts that he admitted to in the context of his plea are untrue or that his plea was coerced in any way. Nothing that was done to Flynn by the FBI isn’t done to criminal suspects all over the country.

·



If you’re outraged by the FBI’s tactics with Flynn, keep in mind that they do these things every day against drug dealers, gang members, and terrorists. Except those people are black, Hispanic, and Middle Eastern—not “lock ‘er up” lily white.

wayne, does is attorney john durham,,who cleaned up the boston fbi office when whitey budget ran things ( an an incompetent Boston US attorney named Robert Mueller couldn’t stop it) have any credibility, yes or no? that report is coming out, and you can bet it’s coming out before the election. i’m happily willing to live with whatever he concludes. if he says there’s nothing there, i’ll never speak of it again.

Flynn isn’t a drug dealer. He’s a patriot. his crime may have been being close to trump. we know the fanaticism with which the fbi hated trump.


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Wow Flynn is no drug dealer a crime is a crime Jim

Why is Flynn a patriot cuz he served his country. a lame excuse and a slap in the face to veterans who haven't committed crime no less attempt to fill his pockets with foreign countrys money. ..Patriotism does not shield you from the law unless your a Trump fan and and are a deep state believer...



Again your foaming at the mouth over this Durham report , funny your willingness to discount all previous investigations that have looked into the same stuff Durham is looking into .. because Republicans are like a alcoholic doing the same things (aka repeating investigation) Expecting different results

So you are opposed to anyone who gets rich from foreign money, eh? So can we all assume, then, that you didn't vote for Hilary Clinton, who took bazillions from foreign countries? Or, like most liberals, are your principles shall we say "flexible", depending on which political party the individual is affiliated with?

I'm not foaming at the mouth over anything. Here, let me remind you what happened...

YOU said that no one involved in looking into these things, has any credibility. I asked you if John Durham, who did an amazing job rooting out corruption in Boston (corruption that Robert Mueller couldn't deal with, yet somehow he kept getting promoted). So I asked if Durham has no credibility in your view.

I've asked that question twice, and twice you chose not to answer.

"all previous investigations that have looked into the same stuff Durham is looking into "

Who looked into the origins of the Russia investigation, before Durham did?

The Court agrees with the government that those documents are ‘consistent and clear that [Mr. Flynn] made multiple false statements to the [FBI] agents about his communications with the Russian Ambassador on January 24, 2017.’”
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Durham has been investigating 10 months of an investigation for 11 months.
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You've made multiple false statements on this forum. Were you lying.

Ya mean like this guy?

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump· 1h
Interesting? By Congress not wanting the special 5 minute testing apparatus, they are saying that they are not “essential”. In any event, we have great testing capacity, and have performed 6.5 million tests, which is more than every country in the world, combined!

This is a lie—and it isn’t close.

US: 7.2 million tests

Russia + Germany + Italy: 9 million tests

Rest of world combined: 31.5 million tests

On a per capita basis, the US ranks 36th in tests, just below Belarus and slightly above Slovakia.

Did you lie when you made false statements?

and if there's anything there, they'll time the release for when it provides the most political capital. See, I am capable of admitting that the GOP is motivated by partisan politics.

Ah, Saul
Trump* should pay attention to this one: A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.
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You dont know where you stand do you a 4 star gen selling out to the russian . And Keeping up the Hillary made millions from foreign countrys another debunked lie you love promoting as truth ... tells us about the Trump foundation..

Guess Hillary has high friends in your deep state ..

And you keep bringing up durhams credibility.. whos questioned it . We know who will when his report doesn't live up to expectations
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I know where I stand. You are the one who said you can't respect anyone who got rich off foreign money. So for the second time, please tell me who you voted for in the 2016 election? Because if you voted for Hilary, it appears you are quite comfortable supporting someone who took tons of foreign money.

"you keep bringing up durhams credibility.. whos questioned it ""

You did, you said no one involved in the administration has any credibility. You can't remember what you posted yesterday?

Did you lie when you made false statements?

I made no false statements
How do you rationalize the ones Trump* made and your support of his rhetoric?
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You have made many, many, false statements about Trump in the past 3 years. I used to routinely tell you that you were a lot like your version of him when it came to telling lies. There were post after post in which I pointed out you were wrong and you never proved me wrong, as well as point after point in various lists of lies you claimed Trump said, in which I pointed out you were wrong, or they weren't really lies, but which you presented as fact, and you never were able to rebut me.

There are so many of these that they melt together in an indistinguishable past so can't be specifically remembered. A few recent ones that come to mind:

Trump owes China 200 million dollars.

Posted a video which claimed Trump sent to China a massive load of our supplies we needed to fight the coronavirus.

Trump said Nazis are fine people.

Trump has done little positive for America.

Trump mocked a disabled person.

Trump is incapable of leading.

He is solely responsible for the death of the most Americans in history.

Our intelligence community warned Trump early about the danger of the virus, but this media narrative was denied by the intel director.

and they did

And you make yet another false statement. And repeat the seven others. You're on a roll.

[QUOTE=Jim in CT;1192487]I know where I stand. You are the one who said you can't respect anyone who got rich off foreign money. So for the second time, please tell me who you voted for in the 2016 election? Because if you voted for Hilary, it appears you are quite comfortable supporting someone who took tons of foreign money. Again spreding a false narrtive shocking

"you keep bringing up durhams credibility.. whos questioned it ""

You did, you said no one involved in the administration has any credibility. You can't remember what you posted yesterday? I think you misinformed I have made not such qoute and not in this thread [/QUOTE]


:btu:

Ahh you repeat the lies again, you would make Alinsky proud

Someone who would actually know what was in the intel would be the director who said that the media narrative you depend on was not true.

They could let people testify before Congress.

Since about February 20, when the stock market began its plunge, the world has understood that the coronavirus outbreak was more than a regional concern. By all accounts, Donald Trump knew this truth at least three weeks before that.

Throughout this crisis, the president’s advisors seem to have been consistent in telling him the facts as well as which strategies could lead the nation out of catastrophe. They also seem to have conveyed to him what the future would look like if he continued to lie to the public, undermine efforts at containment and mitigation, and fail to build a testing, tracing, and isolation apparatus.

In response, the president made inconsistent and often contradictory alterations to his rhetoric while continuing to abdicate his responsibility to carry out the federal government’s most important task: assembling a testing regime adequate to the challenge of the pandemic.

On Monday, a CDC/FEMA model surfaced which predicted that over the next eight weeks the daily death totals would increase by roughly 50 percent from where they stand today. This at a moment when America should be moving down the back slope of this terrible curve.

Something is wrong with this picture.

By the end of February, anyone who knew anything about public health knew that testing on an increasing scale was our best hope to identify, isolate, trace, and treat patients. South Korea, where the first case appears to have arrived at around the same time as in the United States, also saw a massive outbreak (peaking at 851 daily cases on March 3), but successfully contained it through a diligent combination of testing, tracing, isolation, and consistent public health communications that—while scary at times—saved the lives of tens of thousands of citizens.

Pursuing a similar containment strategy in the United States was a reasonable and achievable goal. On March 10, when there were 994 total confirmed cases in America and 30 deaths, my colleagues and I wrote:

We can learn from South Korea’s approach of widespread testing in coordination with federal and state authorities, education of the public, and transparency with regular briefs.

That is, if we choose to.

Each day the window of opportunity to get in front of this epidemic narrows. Now is when our nation’s leadership matters most.

It is eight weeks since that was written and the window to get in front of the outbreak has indeed closed. Today, there are 1.2 million confirmed cases and over 69,000 confirmed deaths.

Worse, President Trump still has not enunciated a clear strategy for mitigating further case growth and deaths on a wider scale.

His messaging remains inconsistent and often driven more by what he sees on cable TV than what his own experts are advising.

He has prompted partisan rebellion in our nation in an effort to shore up his electoral base, which has led some governors who belong to his political party—and who might have favored a cautious approach—to move more swiftly in opening up their states’ economies so as not to incur the wrath of the president.

Whether or not the new CDC model winds up being a good predictor, we know that the relaxation of social distancing/lockdown measures will result in greater spread of the coronavirus.

We know that—short of a vaccine or other therapeutic intervention—this will result in an escalation of cases and deaths.

We also know that reliable strategies would have helped mitigate this situation. And that they can still lessen the damage. Edward Kaplan and I have spelled out one such strategy here. https://jamanetwork.com/channels/hea...rticle/2765693 Others abound.

But all of these strategies rely on testing at a scale that is achievable—but requires coordination of effort and leadership from the top of the federal government.

This leadership has been missing from the start of the crisis. If a president has faced a moment such as this and been unable to create effective leadership after 12 weeks of death and economic destruction, then it is unlikely he is capable of it.

At this point, the single most effective action President Trump could do to to save lives and put our country back on a footing toward health and economic prosperity is to resign.

The only explanation for why we are where we are is gross incompetence in the carrying out of the most basic executive functions of the presidency.

In the normal course of events, such incompetence can be endured until an election provides a remedy for the nation. But this is not an ordinary time.

For the good of the country, President Trump should step aside and give Vice President Pence the chance to do the jobs that he is incapable of performing.

Howard Forman
Dr. Howard Forman (@thehowie) is a professor of Public Health (Health Policy), Management, Economics, and Radiology at Yale.

So, were you lying when you made false statements?

Apparently you have yet to read Bright’s whistleblower complaint
Trump*s swamp is getting exposed
Just how much were the Trump* gang making off the scam cures they were pushing?
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So, were you lying when you made false statements.