Iraq na Phobia
 

President Moron is now trying to pick and choose the paletable parts of Bakers Iraq report and shove it down our throats. I expect him to go down as one of the worse presidents in our history and I voted for him the first time Kerry the second. He is the reason I revoked my lifelong membership in the Republician party. Anyways a poll for your views.

wrong fukking forum for this $hit.

none of the above.....but dont have an answer either

very nice..do you talk to your mother with that potty mouth son

at least I have a mother, instead of two fathers and a hole in the wall like you do.

You really have to wonder about people who would choose to prosecute a sitting President for ambiguos war crimes in a time of war. Talk about handing the enemy a victory.

In light of the fact that a majority of the World, including a majority of Americans believe the President led us to war for false reasons, therefore validating exactly what Bin Laden said we would do...

The near term victory has already been granted. Time will tell if we can take it away...

-spence

for once I am with Spence !

Stay for a while...you may like it here :hee:

-spence

Bin Laden punches America in the face and then predicts America will punch back. That is validation?

It's a bit more nuanced than that...but you did just articulate his point!

-spence

Wow. Using that rationale Victory is easily achieved. So using that logic had we not responded to Terrorist attacks we would have been victorious in the War on Terrorism.
:laugha:

The only victory Bin Laden has achieved is the false victory awarded to him by certain individuals in an effort to validate and further political agenda (quest for power).

Unfortunately, that's about the level of dialogue that's directed our foreign policy the past five years :hs:

-spence

We spent the 90's in dialogue.

And it was during this period of "dialogue" that the omnipresent hatred for everything American grew and festered to the point that led to 9/11.

Wow, that's a silly statement.

I'm assessing a 15 yard penalty for oversimplification abuse.

-spence

I'm assessing a matching 15 yard penalty for Analysis Paralysis.

Duhhhh - Correct forum.... If you seriously have a problem with something use the "report post". Otherwise STFU as I seem to recall you said glad for the Poli forum as it would keep the rest cleaner...

(unless this was moved from parent forum in which case I take back the STFU part :tooth: )

Overruled by the Chair Umpire!

You don't undertake a global effort costing a trillion dollars and tens of thousands of lives without some basic understanding of what's understandable.

Well, Bush does...but you and I shouldn't :)

-spence

Come on, this isn't Tennis its Football. The time to partake in engaging dialouge and nuance study ended with the pre-season (September 11, 2001). The dialogue that remains should be on the level of our military leadership and field commanders. Let the quarterbacks call the plays and this game will be won. Bin Laden's true victory will come when America locks itself into an unwinnable debate over whether we should fight back or not.

:claps:

Well said.

Absurdity.

Even the neoconservatives who architected the strategy have blasted the quarterbacks for demonstrating near zero competence in calling plays.

This isn't about fighting versus not fighting back, it never was and it never will be.

The question is "how" we go about fighting back.

Do we follow a militarized pre-emptive doctrine rooted in idiological fantasy and executive arrogance?

...or do we use all our weapons including military, economic, polical to competently demonstrate by example why the US should be the leader in the world.

You're just rehashing divisive election year rhetoric :bsod:

-spence

I'm hoping your definition of quarterback is different than mine but it may not be. I define the Quarterback as the guy on the field making the plays as in Generals on down and last I heard it wasn't the Neocons criticizing them. I dont trust politicians, be it Kerry, Pelosi, Rumsfeld or Bush to win wars. I'll trust the most efficient, effective military machine in the world to win wars. Let them do what they know needs to be done and we will have a real victory. The party that most allows our soldiers to win gets my vote. And if you think differing opinions are divisive you'd best learn to deal with the division because it aint changing.

You sir are a pig

For you to throw a flag would mean you are a referee. You are at most a commentator, and a biased one at that. :lasso:

Dems fairy-tail

It's a better fit certainly, but I avoided the parallel because it simply doesn't work.

The US Military has been hamstrung by poor policy since the fall of Saddam, and perhaps much before.

Try as hard as our Military can (and I do believe they are giving it their all) they have been put into a situation where their skills and effort are not enough to win on their own. There is no military end game in Iraq, nor the War on Terror.

If your vote truly goes towards those that give the troops what they need to win, they you should be outraged those you probably voted for sent them on an unplanned, mismatched mission with weak justification in Iraq...and were not allowed to finish the mission in Afghanistan.

-spence

We wouldn't be in this position, if the job was completed in 1991 when we had 580,000 troops there. But the Dems were crying about the 10 or 15 troops we lost then, and its the same Dems that want us out now.

I probably would be outraged if I didn't know that we have the best equipped, supplied, and trained military in history. But that can be debated/discussed/studied ad nauseum when we set up a few dozen committees, commissions, inquiries and investigations into the root causes. I'm sure Terrorism will give us a timeout until we conclude the proceedings.

And the same Democrats who voted for it before they voted against it.

While important in a broader sense, in the context of this thread it's a moot issue. There's no military only end game...You must have not been paying attention the past three thousand posts.

Or perhaps you really don't care.

-spence

Back then practically everyone from #^&#^&#^&#^& Cheney to Scrowcroft to George Sr, Powell, Schwarzkopf, The Saudis, The French, The entire coallition agreed that going to Baghdad would have been a mistake, and far more costly then where they had gone to at that point (and it was 200 something troops lost by the end of the ground war). Up until the end of the ground war the Coallition forces were able to practice deception and mobile warfare across mostly unpolulated desert, maximizing their firepower and minimizing - usualy - that of the Iraqi forces. Much like in GW2, the road to Bagdhad was easier than feared but GW1 had the luxury of not needing to go door to door.

Had the US Forces decided to chase and get Sadamm other member countries of the coallition may have stopped fighting or god knows what....



This current situation is absolutely horrendous. If the options are to stay and fight the bad guys over there (many that we created) or to "Redploy" as some call it, we're in deep sheit. Due to the gawd awfull planning (or lack of planning) and execution by this administration our prospects for changing things over there in a possitve matter at the expense of our young men & women is rapidly diminishing.

The prospects of leaving there are almost as bad or could be worse. The region could go up in smoke. But hey, maybe of they are all fighting each other over there, instead of us over there, things might be better?

Who knows - if we leave a vaccuum then maybe the Saudis and Syrians will prop up the Sunnis, Iran backing the Shiites - Arab on Persian Crime writ large. Shoot - might take the pressure a little off Isreal if GW3 happens between all of them.

I know hindsight is 20 / 20 but this was a colossally STUPID thing to do. Errors were then compounded by mistakes and then compounded by lack of reality.

Nobody knows, and certainly the Limbaughs and Hannity's of the world know jack on this too (I woun't pick on O'Riley becuase he isn't bright enough zip his fly the same way twice).

I was too young to remember what life was like for those of us in the land of the Big PX during Vietnam. But I honestly felt that our country and government had learned for those harsh lessons and wouldn't eff things up badly again. I assumed that how the military took a real hard look at itself and learned from it's lessons that the same could be said true for the politicians - boy was I naive.

The American soldier, grunt, airman, and squid are now paying, yet again, the highest price for poor leadership. This time around - much like the last time around, our military, our good people bust their asses in all sorts of conditions that would make most of us here (that didn't do it) really grow up. They and their families are paying for bad decisions and bad policy.

I want leadership. I want a long term plan. I want incopentent Government people out on their ass - especially Bush and Rummy (still can't happen soon enough).

Do you think this would have been effed up by the numbers so badly had McCain (or any other more competent leader) been in there 6 years ago? We probably would not have gone into Iraq in the first place. IF 9/11 had still happend (and almost assuredly it would have regardless of who was at the helm) Afghanistan would likely be over now and perhaps a more effective War on Terror would have happened with more buy in from around the globe....


Sorry - Rant Off

PLEASE, ENOUGH WITH THE RATIONAL, HONEST AND OBJECTIVE THOUGHT.

-spence

PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE ALL you new DEM's

Nothing "new" dem about me. I voted more R on this last ticket than not. I just wish people would throw out the "Party" model and think this crap through.

The worst thing for this country is being able to vote a party ticket - as well as the extreme left and the extreme right.

Best effing country in the world is being run by malcontents who are most effective at dividing the country, and pushing agendas that do not support the American People. There is no balance. Balance Danielson, balance. You know, Wax on Wax off and all that sheet :rotf2:

I'm sorry, but I'm pissed. I am not drinking the Kool aid :spidey:

-spence

I do believe spence is talking AGAIN!

My cousin leaves for that %$%$%$%$hole tommorow. 4 kids left at home with mom. Short deployment. Thank God. So I am feeling a little frisky.

I've got a friend planning on his fourth tour! Heck he may already be in Kuwait...was damn nearly killed before the real shooting even began. Had to watch his first child's birth via video conference from a hospital bed in Germany. All in all I'd say he's pretty lucky.

Best wishes for a safe and fast return :angel:

-spence