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wdmso 08-13-2017 07:59 AM

Charlottesville
 
So if Obama is Blamed For BLM movement

I guess Its Trumps fault for the White Nationalist Movement (seems the silent Majority is in Plan view now ) Mr Trump condemned violence by "many sides" - but stopped short of explicitly condemning the far-right.

Republican Senator Cory Gardner said "Mr. President - we must call evil by its name."

Senator Hatch Office ✔ @senorrinhatch
Their tiki torches may be fueled by citronella but their ideas are fueled by hate, & have no place in civil society. https://twitter.com/aletweetsnews/st...89794778218496

Senator Hatch Office ✔ @senorrinhatch
We should call evil by its name. My brother didn't give his life fighting Hitler for Nazi ideas to go unchallenged here at home. -OGH

Trump just missed another chance.. Sad he so is weak he cant even be speak against the Nazi Flag in America

Got Stripers 08-13-2017 08:20 AM

Trump is still campaigning, why would he anger the people he looked to for getting out to the polls during the run for office?

detbuch 08-13-2017 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1126186)
So if Obama is Blamed For BLM movement

I guess Its Trumps fault for the White Nationalist Movement

So are you saying that both were at fault or that neither were?

(seems the silent Majority is in Plan view now ) Mr Trump condemned violence by "many sides" - but stopped short of explicitly condemning the far-right.

If he condemned violence by many sides, why should he explicitly condemn one side?

Trump just missed another chance.. Sad he so is weak he cant even be speak against the Nazi Flag in America

I assume the Nazi side was included in the "many sides" which he condemned.

BTW, I don't think Trump has specifically sided with any race. I don't believe he has expressed a "white lives matter" point of view.

For many on the "white" side, the decades long criticism and portrayal of them as being racist, and the never ending social set asides and preferential treatment for "minorities" and the seemingly entrenched rhetoric of white guilt accompanied by the assumed purity of minorities from racism, hate, and bigotry, has created a backlash. That backlash was dormant and possibly growing in intensity, and was probably brought closer to the surface by Obama's failure to create the anticipated racial unity as a result of his election. Instead, he egged on the white guilt and black innocence trip.

And it really started to ignite when Trump's rallies were so often disrupted by the SJW's trying to portray him as a racist, bigot, homophobe, and all the other phobes. And further ignited when right wingers. were shut down from speaking on college campuses by the SJW's and BLM's, aided by other left wingers.

If Obama would have equally condemned all "sides," maybe the chit would not have been hitting the fan as it is now.

wdmso 08-13-2017 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1126189)
I assume the Nazi side was included in the "many sides" which he condemned.

BTW, I don't think Trump has specifically sided with any race. I don't believe he has expressed a "white lives matter" point of view.

For many on the "white" side, the decades long criticism and portrayal of them as being racist, and the never ending social set asides and preferential treatment for "minorities" and the seemingly entrenched rhetoric of white guilt accompanied by the assumed purity of minorities from racism, hate, and bigotry, has created a backlash. That backlash was dormant and possibly growing in intensity, and was probably brought closer to the surface by Obama's failure to create the anticipated racial unity as a result of his election. Instead, he egged on the white guilt and black innocence trip.

And it really started to ignite when Trump's rallies were so often disrupted by the SJW's trying to portray him as a racist, bigot, homophobe, and all the other phobes. And further ignited when right wingers. were shut down from speaking on college campuses by the SJW's and BLM's, aided by other left wingers.

If Obama would have equally condemned all "sides," maybe the chit would not have been hitting the fan as it is now.


Thats funny blame the Black guy :kewl:

So are you saying that both were at fault or that neither were? I am not saying anything... I am asking if people felt Obama was at fault for BLM is Trump going to be Held to the same Standard

JohnR 08-13-2017 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1126189)

And it really started to ignite when Trump's rallies were so often disrupted by the SJW's trying to portray him as a racist, bigot, homophobe, and all the other phobes. And further ignited when right wingers. were shut down from speaking on college campuses by the SJW's and BLM's, aided by other left wingers.



Would have been nice if the coverage was equal to but the media made Trump out to be the bad guy and the rioters at his rally as nice normal people pushed into rage because of Trump.

Even with yesterday's H O R R I B L E Neo Nazis/WhiteSupremecist/KLAN azzholes it was NeoNazis -v- "Counter Protesters", not Antifa, not much was peaceful about it for either side. But that is what happens with identity politics - AND media coverage.


Quote:

Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1126189)

If Obama would have equally condemned all "sides," maybe the chit would not have been hitting the fan as it is now.

Yes, he should have but he didn't. Ironically a lot of us called him out for it and being vague, Trump was vague enough yesterday too. He could have been more direct at putting the Klan/NN/WhiteSuprems in check but he didn't.

Yesterday was Effing Horrible, but it should not come as any surprise because it has happened in the past with those groups, and it has happened in the past and the more recent past with Antifa/BLM/WWP.

Neither is acceptable and neither should be ignored.

boot man 08-13-2017 01:57 PM

I remember when I was younger and it was pretty easy to see unanimity when it came to condemning the actions of Nazis and White Supremacists...I miss those days.

Nobody said it was okay because their were also groups committing violent acts (black panthers, weather underground, etc.). These groups were also condemned for their violent acts. Hard to imagine.
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scottw 08-13-2017 05:10 PM

I guess I don't understand the need to give these deplorables the two things that they are seeking when they hold these get togethers...attention and conflict....the media provides the attention and the counter protesters provide the opportunity for conflict.....

wouldn't it be best for them to show up and everyone ignore them so that they could then go back to whatever holes they crawled out of with none of what they sought?

detbuch 08-13-2017 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1126205)
Thats funny blame the Black guy :kewl:

I didn't actually blame anybody. I suggested that if Obama had condemned all sides equally, then we might not have gotten this far along the road to where Americans are openly physically at war with each other. Maybe there is nothing he could have said to keep violence under wraps. I do question his open, avowed, support of BLM in contrast to a willingness to criticize racism (whites) and police for the plight of blacks in America.

And I certainly didn't blame the Black guy. I questioned the action, or lack of it, by the President of the United States and the effect that might have had on the present violence. Your little jab is part of and a demonstration of the difficulty in having an honest discussion about racial views. In your view "blaming" Obama automatically equates to blaming the Black guy.


So are you saying that both were at fault or that neither were? I am not saying anything... I am asking if people felt Obama was at fault for BLM is Trump going to be Held to the same Standard

Perhaps I misunderstood what the standard is in your statement. It seemed to me that when you said--"So if Obama is Blamed For BLM movement I guess Its Trumps fault for the White Nationalist Movement"--the only standard you presented was fault or blame. It also implied to me that you believed the same "standard" should be held for both. That is if one is held to be at fault, so should the other, or, if one is not held to be at fault, then so should the other not be blamed. Your statement also implies that if the same standard, fault or not at fault, is not held for both, that would be hypocritical, ergo, wrong. Which all leads me to believe that you think they should be held to the same standard--both at fault or neither at fault. Which led me to ask "So are you saying that both were at fault or that neither were?" Am I wrong in my assumptions and in my question? If so, I apologize. It could be that you have no dog in that hunt, don't care one way or the other, that you're just curious?

BTW, it could be that one was at fault and the other wasn't. Why must it be given that if one is at fault the other must also be? What is the "standard" being held to if one is blameworthy and the other isn't? Would that be actual words and support given by either Obama or Trump? Didn't Obama actually support and defend BLM? Did Trump actually support or defend Nazi's? Obama is blamed for what he actually said about groups, including police and "racists" (whites). Trump is blamed for what he has not said about certain groups. Trump blamed various people for disrupting his rallies. Should he have praised them for doing so, or just shut up about it even though others including politicians and the media were blaming his rallies for provoking the violence being perpetrated against themselves? In the end what Trump said was a condemnation for "all sides." Does that, or is that going to, inspire more violence as many of those whom you are questioning believe Obama's words inspired BLM violence?

wdmso 08-14-2017 04:15 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1126226)
Perhaps I misunderstood what the standard is in your statement. It seemed to me that when you said--"So if Obama is Blamed For BLM movement I guess Its Trumps fault for the White Nationalist Movement"--the only standard you presented was fault or blame. It also implied to me that you believed the same "standard" should be held for both. That is if one is held to be at fault, so should the other, or, if one is not held to be at fault, then so should the other not be blamed. Your statement also implies that if the same standard, fault or not at fault, is not held for both, that would be hypocritical, ergo, wrong. Which all leads me to believe that you think they should be held to the same standard--both at fault or neither at fault. Which led me to ask "So are you saying that both were at fault or that neither were?" Am I wrong in my assumptions and in my question? If so, I apologize. It could be that you have no dog in that hunt, don't care one way or the other, that you're just curious?

BTW, it could be that one was at fault and the other wasn't. Why must it be given that if one is at fault the other must also be? What is the "standard" being held to if one is blameworthy and the other isn't? Would that be actual words and support given by either Obama or Trump? Didn't Obama actually support and defend BLM? Did Trump actually support or defend Nazi's? Obama is blamed for what he actually said about groups, including police and "racists" (whites). Trump is blamed for what he has not said about certain groups. Trump blamed various people for disrupting his rallies. Should he have praised them for doing so, or just shut up about it even though others including politicians and the media were blaming his rallies for provoking the violence being perpetrated against themselves? In the end what Trump said was a condemnation for "all sides." Does that, or is that going to, inspire more violence as many of those whom you are questioning believe Obama's words inspired BLM violence?


You need to ask those who Blamed or found fault in Obama for the Rise of the BLM movement . I would think that those who did and do so now would be able to to identify Similarities between Obamas support and rise of BLM and Trump and rise ( re birth ) and support of White Nationalist ..

I can say I have ever seen Such a rally of white nationalist with weapons Gas mask shields and other things .

I can only imagine if theses same thing were present at BLM rallies .

PaulS 08-14-2017 07:39 AM

When our President doesn’t (repeatedly) condemn white supremacists, the KKK, white nationalists, alt right can he be considered a real American or a President for all?

He has someone at his right hand who said in his previous job he was “giving the alt right” a platform. He started his rise to the presidency by question Pres. Obama’s birth.

He has been strangely quite (other to blame both sides equally) – maybe he is finally finishing the secret strategy he promised us to defeat ISIS or is finally finishing the report showing how President Obama “tapped” his phones.

Members of his own party and family have quickly and firmly condemn the hate shown Sat.

Maybe now it is finally clear to all who possess even a limited intelligence what type of person he really is.

What a sad few days.

Nebe 08-14-2017 07:50 AM

Make America Hate Agian.
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JohnR 08-14-2017 07:52 AM

Trump is an ass, a buffoon, a fool, and a narcissist. I am still not sure he is worse than Hillary.

Both the current Admin and the previous Admin should have been very firm and very clear early on that the extremist groups and beliefs on both sides: NeoNazi/WhiteSupreme on right and BLM, Antifa, WWP, NBPP (how many did I miss?).

None are acceptable.



Quote:

Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1126214)
wouldn't it be best for them to show up and everyone ignore them so that they could then go back to whatever holes they crawled out of with none of what they sought?

Ding, ding, ding!

detbuch 08-14-2017 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1126229)
You need to ask those who Blamed or found fault in Obama for the Rise of the BLM movement . I would think that those who did and do so now would be able to to identify Similarities between Obamas support and rise of BLM and Trump and rise ( re birth ) and support of White Nationalist ..

So now you switch from fault or blame for the movements to the rise of them--the moving goal post technique. And not only moving the goal post in the case of Trump's "blame," but further qualifying "rise" to "rebirth."

The criticism of Obama was not, if I recall correctly, that he actually created BLM, but that he supported and defended it. Whatever similarity you see between Trump and Obama re the movements, Trump did not support or defend white nationalism.


I can say I have ever seen Such a rally of white nationalist with weapons Gas mask shields and other things .

The wearing of defensive gadgets has been done by movements in the past when they expected to be physically attacked. The so-called alt-righters started to do it when they attended (or tried to attend) speeches by conservatives on college campuses and were physically attacked.

I can only imagine if theses same thing were present at BLM rallies .

That is telling, isn't it? That BLMers didn't expect to be attacked at their rallies.

scottw 08-14-2017 08:06 AM

such remarkably short and selective memories

detbuch 08-14-2017 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulS (Post 1126235)
When our President doesn’t (repeatedly) condemn white supremacists, the KKK, white nationalists, alt right can he be considered a real American or a President for all?

He doesn't support those things, and he doesn't repeatedly condemn any specific (hate?) group on any "side." He lumps them all together as being unacceptable.

He has someone at his right hand who said in his previous job he was “giving the alt right” a platform. He started his rise to the presidency by question Pres. Obama’s birth.

The alt right is not exactly what it is portrayed to be by "centrists" or "leftists." For some in the movement it may approach some of that, for others it is not that at all. There are some things in the alt-right movement that should have a platform. It might achieve a balance to the platform given to leftism and its excessive accusations of whites (especially males) and western culture as being the cause of the world's problems.

He has been strangely quite (other to blame both sides equally) – maybe he is finally finishing the secret strategy he promised us to defeat ISIS or is finally finishing the report showing how President Obama “tapped” his phones.

Maybe that quietness needs to be made louder, but if it is, then if he blames one side more than another that might inflame the side which is comparitively overblamed.

Members of his own party and family have quickly and firmly condemn the hate shown Sat.

Has Trump disassociated from their condemnations? No.

Maybe now it is finally clear to all who possess even a limited intelligence what type of person he really is.

What a sad few days.

Your implications are not clarity.

scottw 08-14-2017 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1126229)

weapons Gas mask shields and other things .

I can only imagine if theses same thing were present at BLM rallies .

maybe the Protester Apparel Depot was all sold out of vagina hats

Got Stripers 08-14-2017 08:03 PM

Boss what you said, Trump is so FAR from presidential, I'm embarrassed he is at the helm; god help us all if the fog rolls in because he has no moral compass.
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Raider Ronnie 08-14-2017 08:58 PM

The phony media & left is so quick to rush to judgment and pounce on the story the way they want it told.
Some video has now surfaced of his car under attack being beat with baseball bats BEFORE he sped up and also tried to change direction, but left don't want that reported. Not like these protesters ever get violent and their PEACEFUL protests turn to riots and burning down buildings 👀
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scottw 08-15-2017 05:39 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1126229)

I can only imagine if theses same thing were present at BLM rallies .

these guys look ready for battle....and now snowflakes are beating up statues and monuments across the country....good grief...this is good...dress and act like the losers you claim to oppose

SilverKing 08-15-2017 06:31 AM

The "LEFT" got its wish more identity politics and more hate to spew...find a platform.

JohnR 08-15-2017 06:53 AM

I was just watching the news and NBC Today show was stating how there was a new movement to protest racism / hate groups.

They are doxxing those that were there, not unusual and not new, for them to unmask those they don't agree with

Apparently all of the "Counter Protests" are always people reacting to some other influence they don't agree with. They have always protested, more and more violently as of late, Grab your torches and pitchforks (citronella torches not first used by RW Hate groups)

The way the news spins things the left are all counter protesters are good (Antifa, WWP, BLM, Workers/Socialists/Communists) and whatever they are protesting is evil. So regular Americans, that disagree with the left , good people assembling will now be lumped in with real a$$hole hategroups like KKK / Neo Nazis, etc. With the backing and top cover of news media.

So now the organizations (news) that most benefit from the 1stA (Freedom of Press) will promote those that would suppress freedom of speech, assembly, and basic liberty.

Side note: wonder if people outside this country are stirring the pot to screw with us. You have the hard right (NeoNazis) clashing with the hard left (Commies) just like the 1930s. Hmmm, what current hard right country has one foot in the hard right and one in the commie camp, and stands to benefit by a weakened and divided USA??

Slipknot 08-15-2017 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnR (Post 1126293)

The way the news spins things the left are all counter protesters are good (Antifa, WWP, BLM, Workers/Socialists/Communists) and whatever they are protesting is evil. So regular Americans, that disagree with the left , good people assembling will now be lumped in with real a$$hole hategroups like KKK / Neo Nazis, etc. With the backing and top cover of news media.

That is the scariest thing to come out this week, being lumped in with hate groups. Well you have George Soros and the Democratic party to thank for this, all part of their plan. Don't buy into their bull.

GOD FORBID IF HILLARY was president,a compass would not be the tenth thing I would think of if she were president, the Dems are really working at ruining this country. :lossinit:

Raider Ronnie 08-15-2017 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slipknot (Post 1126312)
That is the scariest thing to come out this week, being lumped in with hate groups. Well you have George Soros and the Democratic party to thank for this, all part of their plan. Don't buy into their bull.

GOD FORBID IF HILLARY was president,a compass would not be the tenth thing I would think of if she were president, the Dems are really working at ruining this country. :lossinit:



Both parties are ruining the county, but This is text book democrat strategy.
Divide & Conquer !
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Got Stripers 08-15-2017 01:48 PM

Hard to say at this point who would be worse, I only hope there are far better choices the next time we elect a president. Small pool of role models for our kids or grandchildren to look up to and aspire to be like. We had the choice of lying, manipulating bitch or thin skinned, reactionary, narcissistic, womanizing bully.
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scottw 08-15-2017 01:55 PM

"On Monday, more than 200 SJW zealots held a protest inside the American Museum of Natural History in New York City to take down the supposedly “racist” statue of former President Theodore Roosevelt. "

Guppy 08-15-2017 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1126276)
Boss what you said, Trump is so FAR from presidential, I'm embarrassed he is at the helm; god help us all if the fog rolls in because he has no moral compass.
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embarrassed X2, sad sad

Raider Ronnie 08-15-2017 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guppy (Post 1126319)
embarrassed X2, sad sad



Whp the hell gives a crap about a moral compass!!!
All the friggin corruption that goes on in Washington and you guys are concerned about a moral compass.
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Jim in CT 08-15-2017 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1126186)
So if Obama is Blamed For BLM movement

I guess Its Trumps fault for the White Nationalist Movement (seems the silent Majority is in Plan view now ) Mr Trump condemned violence by "many sides" - but stopped short of explicitly condemning the far-right.

Republican Senator Cory Gardner said "Mr. President - we must call evil by its name."

Senator Hatch Office ✔ @senorrinhatch
Their tiki torches may be fueled by citronella but their ideas are fueled by hate, & have no place in civil society. https://twitter.com/aletweetsnews/st...89794778218496

Senator Hatch Office ✔ @senorrinhatch
We should call evil by its name. My brother didn't give his life fighting Hitler for Nazi ideas to go unchallenged here at home. -OGH

Trump just missed another chance.. Sad he so is weak he cant even be speak against the Nazi Flag in America

"So if Obama is Blamed For BLM movement

I guess Its Trumps fault for the White Nationalist Movement "

Obama repeatedly indicated that the police were at fault, opening his fat mouth before he had the facts. he said the Cambridge police "acted stupidly", and in Ferguson, he lamented that if he had a son, he would look like Michael Brown.

That said, I don't blame Obama for the creation of BLM. For sure, he has emboldened them.

Now, how can you make a similar connection between Trump and White Supremacists? Has he ever expressed any sympathy for white supremacists? Has he ever said "hey, I live in New York City, so I get where you are all saying"?

Trump condemned violence and bigotry from all sides. Would the statement have been more powerful if he specifically mentioned the white supremacists? I believe so, yes. Does his lack of specifically calling them out, imply that he condones anything about them? Hell, no.

Here is the only question that matters. WDMSO, do you believe Trump sympathizes with white supremacists?

Got Stripers 08-15-2017 04:49 PM

Duke just thanked Trump for Trump being Trump. The Boston Jewish memorial vandalized again and Trump just fuels the fire with his inability to lead. Just hard to believe millions were systematically murdered by the Nazis and this president has to have tons of pressure brought to bear on him before he even tries (to late arse hole) to condemn them for what they are. Yes there were probably idiots on both sides of the lines, but for the president to not immediately take a leadership role and condemn these groups for what they are is just so sad. Presidential is a word he has yet to understand or grasp.
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Jim in CT 08-15-2017 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulS (Post 1126235)
When our President doesn’t (repeatedly) condemn white supremacists, .

When, exactly, did he not condemn the white supremacists? When he said he condemned bigotry and violence on all sides, are you suggesting he meant "all sides, except when Nazis do it, in which case it's OK"?

He's a terrible, terrible speaker, which is a rotten trait in a POTUS. But to say he didn't condemn them, just because his statement was more broad than specific? That's quite a stretch.

Got Stripers 08-15-2017 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie (Post 1126320)
Whp the hell gives a crap about a moral compass!!!
All the friggin corruption that goes on in Washington and you guys are concerned about a moral compass.
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Concerned about both, why aren't you?
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Jim in CT 08-15-2017 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1126325)
Duke just thanked Trump for Trump being Trump. The Boston Jewish memorial vandalized again and Trump just fuels the fire with his inability to lead. Just hard to believe millions were systematically murdered by the Nazis and this president has to have tons of pressure brought to bear on him before he even tries (to late arse hole) to condemn them for what they are. Yes there were probably idiots on both sides of the lines, but for the president to not immediately take a leadership role and condemn these groups for what they are is just so sad. Presidential is a word he has yet to understand or grasp.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"Duke just thanked Trump for Trump "

So Trump is directly responsible for anything done, by anyone who pays a compliment to him?

GS, if ISIS was going to have endorsed a candidate in the 2016 race, who would it have been? Answer - Hilary. Does that mean she is sympathetic to ISIS? Answer - no.

"The Boston Jewish memorial vandalized again "

His daughter is a Jew for Christ's sake, and so is his son-in-law, who Trump obviously respects deeply. So he's an anti-Semite now?

I have never seen a reaction like this, I have never seen irrationality on this scale. The funny thing is, there are a million legitimate reasons to criticize the guy. But we never stop bending over backwards to connect him with anything evil that happens.

Whew.

"Presidential is a word he has yet to understand or grasp."

That is true.

How is it, that when he says "I condemn bigotry and violence on all sides", that you interpret that as "I have nothing critical to say about white supremacists"?

Jim in CT 08-15-2017 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnR (Post 1126293)
The way the news spins things... regular Americans, that disagree with the left , good people assembling will now be lumped in with real a$$hole hategroups like KKK / Neo Nazis, etc. With the backing and top cover of news media.

Correct. The left has been doing this since they said Bush only won because the mythical "angry white men" effect.

John, when the left convinces themselves that everyone who disagrees with them about anything is evil, that makes them feel better about losing. Because losing is acceptable, even virtuous, if you convince yourself that at least you took the high road, and everyone else is deplorable and irredeemable.

Jim in CT 08-15-2017 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1126244)
maybe the Protester Apparel Depot was all sold out of vagina hats

That's funny right there!!

Got Stripers 08-15-2017 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1126328)
"Duke just thanked Trump for Trump "

So Trump is directly responsible for anything done, by anyone who pays a compliment to him?

GS, if ISIS was going to have endorsed a candidate in the 2016 race, who would it have been? Answer - Hilary. Does that mean she is sympathetic to ISIS? Answer - no.

"The Boston Jewish memorial vandalized again "

His daughter is a Jew for Christ's sake, and so is his son-in-law, who Trump obviously respects deeply. So he's an anti-Semite now?

I have never seen a reaction like this, I have never seen irrationality on this scale. The funny thing is, there are a million legitimate reasons to criticize the guy. But we never stop bending over backwards to connect him with anything evil that happens.

Did you listen to his news conference, I doubt it, he clearly was defending those he refused to call out. And yes I'd have the exact same issue for Hilary if in some surreal world you suggest might exist where isis supporters are allowed to protest and she doesn't react immediately and call evil out.
Whew.

"Presidential is a word he has yet to understand or grasp."

That is true.

How is it, that when he says "I condemn bigotry and violence on all sides", that you interpret that as "I have nothing critical to say about white supremacists"?

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Jim in CT 08-16-2017 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1126337)
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"Did you listen to his news conference, I doubt it, he clearly was defending those he refused to call out"

I was camping in the woods last week, and watched zero TV. So no, I did not see the press conference you refer to. Can you tell me what he said exactly, where he actually defended the white supremacists? That would be outrageous.

boot man 08-16-2017 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1126350)
"Did you listen to his news conference, I doubt it, he clearly was defending those he refused to call out"

I was camping in the woods last week, and watched zero TV. So no, I did not see the press conference you refer to. Can you tell me what he said exactly, where he actually defended the white supremacists? That would be outrageous.

You should be able to find it online fairly easy so you can make your own judgments.
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The Dad Fisherman 08-16-2017 10:32 AM

Here’s the timeline of events on Aug. 12:

7:39 a.m. – David Duke, the former Klan leader, tweets, “Today will be a historic day, remembered as the moment everything changed. #Charlottesville #UniteTheRight”

8:30 a.m. – Demonstrators begin to gather. The Virginia State Police posts a photo at 8:40 a.m. on its Twitter account of men carrying weapons and wearing fatigues. “Participants for today’s rally at Emancipation Park in Charlottesville begin to arrive. #cvilleaug12”

10:30 a.m. – First outbreak of violence.

11 a.m. – CNN leads its 11 a.m. hour with footage of the clashes between the protesters and counterprotesters. White nationalists can be seen holding wooden shields, carrying weapons and wearing helmets.

11:28 a.m. – Virginia governor declares a state of emergency.

11:37 a.m. – Virginia State Police tweets, “UPDATE: Unlawful assembly declared at Charlottesville rally #cvilleaug12”

11:55 a.m. – Police start to make arrests. State police tweets at 11:55 a.m., “Arrests are being made following declaration of unlawful assembly at Emancipation Park in Charlottesville. #cvilleaug12”

12:40 p.m. – Protesters and counterprotesters gather at nearby Justice Park.

1:02 p.m. – Corinne Geller, a spokeswoman for Virginia State Police, says in an interview with Fox News that “all sides” had engaged in throwing bottles and other debris in what had been — as of that point — a violent, but non-fatal confrontation.

1:19 p.m. – Trump tweets, “We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for. There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!”

1:31 p.m. – CNN airs an interview with Duke at the rally, which he said represents a “turning point.” The former Klan grand wizard said, “We’re going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in. That’s why we voted for Donald Trump, because he said we’re going to take our country back. And that’s what we gotta do.”

1:40 p.m. – A driver, later identified as James Alex Fields Jr., speeds down Fourth Street and into a crowd of counterprotesters who are marching in the street. Fields then throws the car in reverse and speeds away.

2:01 p.m. – On Twitter, Duke criticizes Trump’s tweet calling for everyone to “condemn all that hate stands for.” Duke retweets Trump’s post and writes, “So, after decades of White Americans being targeted for discriminated & anti-White hatred, we come together as a people, and you attack us?”

2:03 p.m. – Duke posts a second tweet to Trump. In it, Duke says, “I would recommend you take a good look in the mirror & remember it was White Americans who put you in the presidency, not radical leftists.”

2:14 p.m. – Virginia State Police posts a photo of the crash scene, saying “several pedestrians” were struck and that there were “multiple injuries.”

2:49 p.m. – Fox News posts a video of the car attack. The Fox News reporter says that witnesses described the attack as “absolutely intentional.”

3:30 p.m. – CNN reports it had “now confirmed from Charlottesville Mayor Mike Signer that one person has died, in fact, today during the violent events in the city.”

3:33 p.m. – Trump speaks about Charlottesville at a bill-signing ceremony. He blames “many sides” for the violence.

4:18 p.m. – Fox News tweets that the driver was in custody for “intentional collaborated car attack in #charlottesville.”

5 p.m. – Shortly after 5 p.m., a Virginia State Police helicopter monitoring the rally crashes and two state troopers are killed.

The Dad Fisherman 08-16-2017 10:34 AM

Text of Press Conference


TRUMP: Great to be back in New York with all of our friends and some great friends outside the building, I must tell you.

I want to thank all of our distinguished guests who are with us today, including members of our cabinet: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, O.M.B. Director Mick Mulvaney, and of course our transportation secretary, who’s doing a fabulous job, Elaine Chao. Thank you all for doing a really incredible and creative job on what we are going to be discussing today, which is infrastructure. We’ve just had a great set of briefings upstairs on our infrastructure agenda.





My administration is working every day to deliver the world-class infrastructure that our people deserve, and that frankly our country deserves. That’s why I just signed a new executive order to dramatically reform the nation’s badly broken infrastructure permitting process.
Continue reading the main story







Just blocks away is the Empire State Building. It took 11 months to build the Empire State Building. But today it can take as long as a decade, and much more than that. Many, many stories where it takes 20 and 25 years just to get approvals to start construction of a fairly routine highway. Highway builders must get up to 16 different approvals involving nine different federal agencies governed by 29 different statutes. One agency alone can stall a project for many, many years and even decades. Not only does this cost our economy billions of dollars, but it also denies our citizens the safe and modern infrastructure they deserve.

This overregulated permitting process is a massive, self-inflicted wound on our country. It’s disgraceful. Denying our people much needed investments in their community. And I just want to show you this, because it was just shown to me. I think I’m going to show it to the media, both real and fake media, by the way. This is what it takes to get something approved today.

Elaine, you see that. So this is what it takes, permitting process flow chart. That’s a flowchart. So that can go out to 20 years. This shows about 10. But that can go out to about 20 years to get something approved. This is for a highway. I have seen a highway recently in a certain state. I won’t mention its name. It is 17 years. I could have built it for $4 or $5 million without the permitting process. It costs hundreds of millions of dollars, but it took 17 years to get it approved and many, many, many, many pages of environmental impact studies. This what we will bring it down to. This is less than two years. This is going to happen quickly. That’s what I’m signing today. This will be less than two years for a highway. So it’s going to be quick. It’s going to be a very streamlined process. And by the way, if it doesn’t meet environmental safeguards, we are not going to approve it. Very simple. We are not going to approve it. Maybe this one will say, let’s throw the other one away. Would anybody like it from the media? Would anybody like that long, beautiful chart? You can have it. So my executive order also requires agencies to work together efficiently by requiring one lead agency for each major infrastructure project. It also holds agencies accountable if they fail to streamline their review process.

So each agency is accountable. We’re going to get infrastructure built quickly, inexpensively, relatively speaking. And the permitting process will go very, very quickly. No longer will we tolerate one job killing delay after another. No longer will we accept a broken system that benefits consultants and lobbyists at the expense of hard-working Americans.

Now I knew the process very well, probably better than anybody. I had to get permits for this building and many of the buildings I built, all of the buildings I built in Manhattan and many other places. And I will tell you that the consultants are rich people. They go around making it very difficult. They lobby Congress. They lobby state government, city governments to make it very difficult so that you have to hire consultants and that you have to take years and pay them a fortune. So we are streamlining the process, and we won’t be having so much of that anymore. No longer will we allow the infrastructure of our magnificent country to crumble and decay. While protecting the environment, we will build gleaming new roads, bridges, railways, waterways, tunnels and highways. We will rebuild our country with American workers, American iron, American aluminum, American steel. We will create millions of new jobs and make millions of American dreams come true. Our infrastructure will again be the best in the world. We used to have the greatest infrastructure anywhere in the world. And today, we are like a third-world country. We are literally like a third-world country. Our infrastructure will again be the best. And we will restore the pride in our communities, our nation. And all over the United States will be proud again.

So I want to thank everybody for being here. God bless you. God bless the United States. And if you have any questions, we have Mick. You could come up here, please. Come on up. Mick Mulvaney.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

REPORTER: Why do you think these C.E.O.’s are leaving your manufacturing council?





TRUMP: Because they’re not taking their jobs seriously as it pertains to this country. But we want jobs, manufacturing in this country. If you look at some of those people that you are talking about, they are outside of the country. They are having a lot of their product made outside. If you look at Merck as an example, take a look — excuse me, excuse me — take a look at where their product is made. It’s made outside of our country. We want products made in the country. Now I have to tell you, some of the folks that will leave, they’re leaving out of embarrassment, because they make their products outside. And I have been lecturing them, including the gentleman that you are referring to, about you have to bring it back to this country. You can’t do it necessarily in Ireland and all of these other places. You have to bring this work back to this country. That’s what I want. I want manufacturing to be back into the United States so that American workers can benefit.

REPORTER: Why did you wait so long — [cross talk]

TRUMP: I didn’t wait long. I didn’t wait long. I wanted to make sure, unlike most politicians, that what I said was correct, not make a quick statement. The statement I made on Saturday, the first statement, was a fine statement but you don’t make statements that direct unless you know the facts. It takes a little while to get the facts. You still don’t know the facts. It is a very, very important process to me. It is a very important statement. So I don’t want to go quickly and just make a statement for the sake of making a political statement. I want to know the facts. If you go back to my statement, I brought it. I brought it.

[cross talk]

As I said, remember, Saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence. It has no place in America. And then I went on from there. Here is the thing. Excuse me. Take it nice and easy. Here is the thing. When I make a statement, I like to be correct. I want the facts. This event just happened. In fact, a lot of the event didn’t happen yet as we were speaking. This event just happened. Before I make a statement, I need the facts. So I don’t want to rush into a statement. So making the statement when I made it was excellent. In fact, the young woman, who I hear is a fantastic young woman, and it was on NBC, her mother wrote me and said through I guess Twitter, social media, the nicest things. And I very much appreciated that. I hear she was a fine, really actually, an incredible young woman. Her mother, on Twitter, thanked me for what I said. And honestly, if the press were not fake and if it was honest, the press would have said what I said was very nice. But unlike you … [cross talk]... and unlike the media, before I make a statement, I like to know the facts.

[cross talk]

How about a couple of infrastructure questions.

REPORTER: The C.E.O. of Walmart said you missed a critical opportunity to help bring the country together. Did you?

TRUMP: Not at all. I think the country — look, you take a look. I’ve created over a million jobs since I’m president. The country is booming. The stock market is setting records. We have the highest employment numbers we have ever had in the history of our country. We are doing record business. We have the highest levels of enthusiasm, so the head of Walmart, who I know, who’s a very nice guy, was making a political statement.

[cross talk]

I would do it the same way, because I want to make sure when I make a statement that the statement is correct. And there was no way of making a correct statement that early. I had to see the facts, unlike a lot of reporters. [cross talk] I didn’t know David Duke was there. I wanted to see the facts. And the facts, as they started coming out, were very well-stated. In fact, everybody said his statement was beautiful. If he would have made it sooner, that would have been good. I couldn’t have made it sooner, because I didn’t know all of the facts. Frankly, people still don’t know all of the facts. It was very important — [cross talk] excuse me, excuse me. It was very important to me to get the facts out and correctly. Because if I would have made a fast statement — and the first statement was made without knowing much other than what we were seeing. The second statement was made with knowledge, with great knowledge. There are still things — [cross talk] excuse me. There are still things that people don’t know. I want to make a statement with knowledge. I wanted to know the facts.

REPORTER: Two questions: Was this terrorism? And can you tell us how you are feeling about your chief strategist Steve Bannon?

TRUMP: Well I think the driver of the car is a disgrace to himself, his family and this country. You can call it terrorism. You can call it murder. You can call it whatever you want. I would just call it as the fastest one to come up with a good verdict. There is a question. Is it murder? Is it terrorism? Then you get into legal semantics. The driver of the car is a murderer. What he did was a horrible, horrible, inexcusable thing.





REPORTER: Can you tell us how you are feeling about your chief strategist, Mr. Bannon?

TRUMP: Go ahead.

The Dad Fisherman 08-16-2017 10:35 AM

ANOTHER REPORTER: Steve Bannon — I would echo Maggie’s question.

TRUMP: I never spoke to Mr. Bannon about it.

REPORTER: But can you tell us broadly, do you still have confidence in Steve?

TRUMP: Well, we’ll see… Look, look, I like Mr. Bannon. He is a friend of mine. Mr. Bannon came on very late. You know that. I went through 17 senators, governors and I won all the primaries. Mr. Bannon came on very much later than that. And I like him. He is a good man. He is not a racist. I can tell you that. He is a good person. He actually gets a very unfair press in that regard. We’ll see what happens with Mr. Bannon. He is a good person and I think the press treats him frankly very unfairly.

[cross talk]

REPORTER: Senator McCain has called on you to defend your national security adviser, H.R. McMaster against these attacks.

[cross talk]

TRUMP: I’ve already done … I did it the last time.

[cross talk]

REPORTER: … and he called on you again, linking it to the alt-Right…

[cross talk]

TRUMP: Senator McCain? You mean the one that voted against Obamacare? You mean Senator McCain who voted against us getting good health care?

REPORTER: Senator McCain said that the alt-right is behind these and he linked that same group to those that perpetrated the attack in Charlottesville.

TRUMP: Well, I don’t know. I can’t tell you. I’m sure Senator McCain must know what he is talking about. When you say the alt-right. Define alt-right to me. You define it. Go ahead. No, define it for me. Come on. Let’s go.





REPORTER: Senator McCain defined them as the same group —

[cross talk]

TRUMP: What about the alt-left that came charging at — Excuse me — What about the alt-left that came charging at the, as you say, the alt-right? Do they have any semblance of guilt? [cross talk] Let me ask you this: What about the fact that they came charging, that they came charging with clubs in their hands swinging clubs? Do they have any problem? I think they do. So, you know, as far as I’m concerned, that was a horrible, horrible day.

[cross talk]

Wait a minute. I’m not finished. I’m not finished, fake news. That was a horrible day.

[cross talk]

TRUMP: I will tell you something. I watched those very closely, much more closely than you people watched it. And you had a group on one side that was bad and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. And nobody wants to say that. But I’ll say it right now.

[cross talk]

You had a group on the other side that came charging in without a permit and they were very, very violent.

REPORTER: Do you think that what you call the alt-left is the same as neo-Nazis?

TRUMP: All of those people — Excuse me — I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue, Robert E. Lee.

So — excuse me — and you take a look at some of the groups and you see and you would know it if you were honest reporters, which in many cases, you are not. But, many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. So this week, it is Robert E. Lee. I noticed that Stonewall Jackson is coming down. I wonder, is it George Washington next week? And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after? You know, you really do have to ask yourself, where does it stop?

But they were there to protest — excuse me — you take a look, the night before, they were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. Infrastructure question. Go ahead.

REPORTER: Does the statue of Robert E. Lee stay up?

TRUMP: I would say that is up to a local town, community or the federal government, depending on where it is located.





REPORTER: Are you against the Confederacy?

REPORTER: How concerned are you about race relations in America and do you think things have gotten worse or better since you took office?

TRUMP: I think they’ve gotten better or the same. Look they have been frayed for a long time. And you can ask President Obama about that because he would make speeches about it.

But I believe that the fact that I brought in, it will be soon, millions of jobs, you see where companies are moving back into our country. I think that’s going to have a tremendous positive impact on race relations.

We have companies coming back into our country. We have two car companies that just announced. We have Foxconn in Wisconsin, just announced. We have many companies, I say, pouring back into the country. I think that’s going to have a huge, positive impact on race relations.

You know why? It is jobs. What people want now, they want jobs. They want great jobs with good pay. And when they have that, you watch how race relations will be. And I’ll tell you we are spending a lot of money on the inner cities. We are gonna fix, we are fixing the inner cities. We are doing far more than anybody has done with respect to the inner cities. It is a priority for me. And it’s very important.

REPORTER: Mr. President, are you putting what you are calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?

TRUMP: I am not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other and they came at each other with clubs and it was vicious and horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch. But there is another side. There was a group on this side, you can call them the left. You have just called them the left, that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

REPORTER: You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides?

TRUMP: Well I do think there’s blame. Yes, I think there is blame on both sides. You look at both sides. I think there is blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it. And you don’t have doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say.





REPORTER: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest —

TRUMP: Excuse me. They didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis. And you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides.

You had people in that group — excuse me, excuse me — I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

[cross talk]

TRUMP: George Washington as a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down — excuse me — are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him. Good.

Are we going to take down the statue? Cause he was a major slave owner. Are we going to take down his statue? So you know what? It’s fine. You are changing history, you’re changing culture. You had people and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally. You had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. O.K.? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group too.

REPORTER: Who has the press treated unfairly? Sir, I’m sorry, I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly? I just didn’t understand what you were saying.

TRUMP: No, no. There were people in that rally. I looked the night before. If you look, they were people protesting very quietly the taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee. I am sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day, it looked like they had some rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them. But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest.

Because I don’t know if you know, they had a permit. The other group didn’t have a permit. So I only tell you this. There are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country, a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country. Does anybody have a final question? Do you have an infrastructure question?





REPORTER: What makes you think you can get an infrastructure bill? You didn’t get health care, you didn’t get tax reform...

TRUMP: Well, you know, I’ll tell you. We came very close with health care. Unfortunately, John McCain decided to vote against it at the last minute. You’ll have to ask John McCain why he did that. But we came very close to health care. We will end up getting health care. But we’ll get the infrastructure. And actually infrastructure is something I think we’ll have bipartisan support on. I actually think Democrats will go along with the infrastructure.

REPORTER: Mr. President, have you spoken to the family of the victim of the car attack?

TRUMP: No. I will be reaching out.

REPORTER: When will you be reaching out?

TRUMP: I thought that the statement put out, the mother’s statement, I thought was a beautiful statement. I tell you, it was something that I really appreciated. I thought it was terrific. Under the kind of stress that she is under and the heartache that she is under, I thought putting out that statement to me was really something I won’t forget. Thank you all very much. Thank you.

REPORTER: Do you plan to go to Charlottesville, Mr. President?

[cross talk]

TRUMP: Does anyone know I own a house in Charlottesville? It is in Charlottesville. You’ll see.

REPORTER: Is that the winery?

TRUMP: It is the winery. [cross talk] I mean, I know a lot about Charlottesville. Charlottesville is a great place that’s been very badly hurt over the last couple of days. I own actually one of the largest wineries in the United States. It’s in Charlottesville.

REPORTER: What do you think needs to be done to overcome the racial divides in this country?

TRUMP: I really think jobs can have a big impact. I think if we continue to create jobs, over a million, substantially more than a million. And you see just the other day, the car companies coming in, with Foxconn. I think if we continue to create jobs at levels that I’m creating jobs, I think that’s going to have a tremendous impact, positive impact, on race relations.

REPORTER: What you said today, how do you think that will impact the racial —?

TRUMP: Because the people are going to be working. They’re going to be making a lot of money, much more than they ever thought possible. That’s going to happen. The other thing, very important: I believe wages will start going up. They haven’t gone up for a long time. I believe wages now, because the economy is doing so well, with respect to employment and unemployment, I believe wages will start to go up. I think that will have a tremendously positive impact on race relations. Thank you.


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