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-   -   The game remains the same .. (http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showthread.php?t=79017)

Tagger 09-01-2012 03:24 PM

The game remains the same ..
 
New inspector ,, I have 30" doors front and back . I want to enlarge the back door to 32" to make it easier getting appliances in . Homies has a lot of pre hung steel doors 32 x 78 ,, $188.00 (78" ?? cottage area ) ..I can't use this door Inspector says I need the high impact hurricane door $900.00 .. Right now I have a crappy wood door with 2 butts screwed directly to 2X4 ,, no casing .. leave that alone I guess .. . Met the old owner and neighbors .. They said .. "We knew you weren't from around here .. You pulled a building permit " ..

afterhours 09-01-2012 07:12 PM

building permit for a rear door???? who woulda thunk it???? :) i guess we gotta watch out for those backdoor hurricanes....

BigFish 09-01-2012 08:38 PM

Building inspector has no legal right to force you to use a particular door??? Buy the door you want and hang it!!!

nightfighter 09-01-2012 08:50 PM

Yeah, that doesn't sound right..... Ask him to show you in the code book.

Hookedagain 09-01-2012 09:18 PM

Had a similar issue in Newport a while ago. Any project within a certain distance from the water has a different set of codes. Had to anchor the house down differently, had to use hurricane ties everywhere and had to use high wind glass. 90 mph I believe. It was crazy the things that were different from building inland. Added 40% to the cost of the house.

BigFish 09-01-2012 09:33 PM

Different codes for a back door??? I doubt that! Maybe for insulation or frame construction but a homeowner has the right to install any exterior door they choose! Doors are functional and esthetic not structural!

Tagger 09-02-2012 06:09 AM

yup different codes if you live with in a mile of the coast line ,, aka FEMA . Even Sheds need hurricane clips ,cables anchoring down .. He's coming by Tuesday . Old inspector walked through and called me out on the beams .. 4 sets of plans later to an engineering firm , notarized, stamped and submitted, I guess my rough framing was never signed off . No permit , just receipt for it in the window back then , Took like a month and a half to get the actual permit .. Just got a permit for 2 doors and a window ,, got that with in the same week from new regime .. I will not be looking for another of these houses as a fixer upper ..

afterhours 09-02-2012 07:40 AM

you know gov't is out of control when they dictate which back door you must use on YOUR house...

ed morini 09-02-2012 08:15 AM

the game
 
While it is quite evident that the codes have changed recently, I wouldn't necessarily blame the govt. The insurance companies are the culprits here. After Andrew in Florida, and Katrina the insurance companies have been looking for ways to limit their liabilities. Code changes were made to strengthen up the exterior weak points...windows and doors and garages and decks. Originally the Cape and Islands, and Mass coastal areas were designated as 120 mph wind areas requiring expensive windows and doors and framing ties. This was later changes to 110 mph and there is an allowable storm panel provision to protect regular windows. Here in Holliston the wind rating is 100 mph so there are no issues. The building code does require one means of egress to be 3'-0" and an inspector could make the case that if you replace the door that is sub par then a three foot door should be installed. I do know that in the 7th edition, code any work done to a means of egress required a permit. I don't know if this provision made it into the 8th edition but I'll look Changing a door size to a larger one would require a permit anyway

Ed

BigFish 09-02-2012 08:47 AM

Again I state...doors and windows are not structural and surely will be the least point of concern if an appropriate "Hurricane" strikes! When was the last time Onset had a Hurricane again?????:smash:

ed morini 09-02-2012 09:08 AM

the game
 
Windows and doors are considered structural in high wind areas 120 mph. A breach in these areas will cause extensive damage to the home and in some cases cause the structure itself to be compromised. Windows are tested by the 2x4 cannon..ie. a 2x4 shot at the glass a t predetermined speed, regular windows get one shot to pass,, 120 mph windows the glass and membrane must remain intact after many impacts. The 120 mph window is very expensive and the argument by the Cape builders was that the cost were prohibitive and the window could be protected by a storm panel the code was subsequently changed and the storm panels were allowed. Doors because they are a means of egress are another matter as there are many styles and glass configurations to contend with so are engineered to different testing.
Things have changed, windows and doors are components of structural systems and are treated accordingly and subject to code requirements. In addition in the event of a loss to a home, the first thing the insurance companies look for is work performed without a permit and if found that is grounds to deny the claim. I don't agree with some of the regulations, but I can see the reasons for the.. Big box sales people that don't know what they are selling, big box installers that are incompetent, workmen that are incompetent and homeowners that are all to willing to fore go the permit process and put their home in jeopardy for the sake of a couple of bucks and a trip to the town hall.
The office of inspections should be a resource center center not a punitive exercise.. if it isn't then complain.

Sorry for the rant

ed

Slipknot 09-02-2012 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish (Post 956713)
Again I state...doors and windows are not structural and surely will be the least point of concern if an appropriate "Hurricane" strikes! When was the last time Onset had a Hurricane again?????:smash:


hurricane Bob
it wrecked a lot of boats and homes

you can state your opinion Bigfish, that doors are not structural, but the fact is, they are part of the structure.


Tagger, ya bought a sugar shack, you would think they'd be happy you are improving it but I guess it's all because of liability. too bad too, because even when you buy a house that's been inspected, stuff slips thru the cracks from back when it was new, and the homeowner winds up with crappy construction shortcuts anyway sometimes.

Tagger 09-02-2012 05:55 PM

These high impact doors may be required by code with in a mile of the coast , But try finding one .. Wife called all over the cape ,, special order .. Standard steel wood case doors are still the norm in stock .

BigFish 09-02-2012 06:58 PM

Its bull#^&#^&#^&#^& and I don't care what anyone says!! Have the #^&#^&#^&#^&er show you the written code!!!

ed morini 09-02-2012 08:32 PM

the game
 
There is no "within one mile of the coast" there are only wind speed areas period. Flood prone areas are another issue altogether, but I just read an article on a door shield for flooding up to 30".I too would ask to see the code reference. If by chance there was one, I would next contact the door company you would like to purchase a door from and ask for a spec sheet to be faxed to the lumber yard or big box store. Most door manufacturers belong to the fenestration board and wind ratings are listed. On the Cape, the wind speed is 110...I believe most doors will pass this. Specs from the manufacturer are all the BI needs for performance compliance.

I just went on the Jeld Wen site and the list a severe storm glass for gtlass paneled doors that pass. I am sure there is a up charge, but you dont have to put a shutter over the door. Come to think of it why can't you just build a storm panel to go over the door. As I recall, on the cape on new construction the storm panels must be on site in order to get occupancy, and as far as I know regular windows are allowed with the additional storm panels.

Ed

Slipknot 09-02-2012 10:23 PM

cancel the permit for the door, get all other work done, then once all signed off and have occupancy permit, go get a door and replace it on a saturday. done simple hassle free

Tagger 09-03-2012 05:17 AM

The old inspector was giving a notice and let go .. After given a notice he didn't show up for work . Showed up his last day , stepped in a hole and hurt himself , What a coinydink .. pos .. Building Commissioner fired too. domestic abuse . nice ..

afterhours 09-03-2012 07:08 AM

[QUOTE=Tagger;956776]The old inspector was giving a notice and let go .. After given a notice he didn't show up for work . Showed up his last day , stepped in a hole and hurt himself , What a coinydink .. pos ..


gee just like ya read about ALL the time. i wish just once the powers that be call out pos' like this. i think boston called out a competion weightlifting fireman.
do what bruce said.

Backbeach Jake 09-03-2012 07:47 AM

When he stepped in the hole someone should have thrown some dirt on him... These inspectors should be guiding not trying to break your bank. I'm sorry you're going through this, but when it's done , you and the Mrs. can enjoy and smile at the fact that you've won. That first sunset together when it's done will be worth it all.

Tagger 09-04-2012 11:43 AM

Because of this post a "towny" yesterday told me I could use the regular steel doors . All I needed was a sheet of plywood ,pre drilled, and labled that it is designated for that door to be screwed right over the opening incase of hurricane .. Building inspector today said that would be fine ... YYYEEAaaa !!! thanks Mike ..

nightfighter 09-04-2012 11:53 AM

Excellent! I hope you never have to actually install it..... Good old time yankee fix.

BigFish 09-04-2012 01:04 PM

Why didn't the stupid idiot tell you that in the first place???:smash:

Rockfish9 09-04-2012 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tagger (Post 956910)
Because of this post a "towny" yesterday told me I could use the regular steel doors . All I needed was a sheet of plywood ,pre drilled, and labled that it is designated for that door to be screwed right over the opening incase of hurricane .. Building inspector today said that would be fine ... YYYEEAaaa !!! thanks Mike ..

the sad part of all this is.. someone ( an inspector) could/SHOULD have told you this right from the get go...there is no excuse for this being this hard.. rules and codes are put forth for our safty.. but when a simple sheet of plywood labled in a specific manner is the "cure all' to an expensive, troublesome problem...and is a legal viable option.. the home owner should be given the option and informed on the minmal that is reqiured...

Tagger 09-04-2012 01:20 PM

Yea ,, I bought the door ,, got it to the job , returned it , and now I have to go back and get it .. Good bye crappy old wood door .. Was wondering why a $900.00 door isn't readily available down the cape ??

Tagger 09-04-2012 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish (Post 956713)
Again I state...doors and windows are not structural and surely will be the least point of concern if an appropriate "Hurricane" strikes! When was the last time Onset had a Hurricane again?????:smash:

Bob was bad ,, but 1938 was the worst .. Houses floated right off there blocks ,, Old timer told me there was a guy who charged $100.00 a house to tie a rope to it and tow it back to the blocks .. That's why a lot of these houses are crooked on the blocks .

Grapenuts 09-04-2012 05:07 PM

Homeowner acting as "contractor"....contractors have to know the codes....building inspector isn't there to play teacher, just to inforce the codes.The days of "sure use this or do this are long gone.

BigFish 09-04-2012 06:18 PM

Well Tagger is a union carpenter so......pretty sure he has a grasp of code. Pretty sure he was not going to make a door out of popsicle sticks and Elmers! I submitted architect quality drawings for our mud room addition complete with measurements the whole nine yards!! Inspector comes for the rough inspection and informs me we need a landing at the top of the stairs outside the back door of the mud room!!! Now I ask you....is it or is it not the inspectors job to look over the drawings that THEY REQUEST" to make sure that everything is as it should be???? It was a simple mud room.....childs play compared to building a complete structure yet the inspector dropped the ball.....could not execute his job to provide me the service for which we do pay the permit fees!!!!!! I wanted to crush his F'in skull the dumb bastard!!!!!!

BigFish 09-04-2012 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapenuts (Post 956990)
Homeowner acting as "contractor"....contractors have to know the codes....building inspector isn't there to play teacher, just to inforce the codes.The days of "sure use this or do this are long gone.

Pretty sure this is exactly what a building inspectors job is?

Slipknot 09-04-2012 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish (Post 957012)
Well Tagger is a union carpenter so......pretty sure he has a grasp of code. Pretty sure he was not going to make a door out of popsicle sticks and Elmers! I submitted architect quality drawings for our mud room addition complete with measurements the whole nine yards!! Inspector comes for the rough inspection and informs me we need a landing at the top of the stairs outside the back door of the mud room!!! Now I ask you....is it or is it not the inspectors job to look over the drawings that THEY REQUEST" to make sure that everything is as it should be???? It was a simple mud room.....childs play compared to building a complete structure yet the inspector dropped the ball.....could not execute his job to provide me the service for which we do pay the permit fees!!!!!! I wanted to crush his F'in skull the dumb bastard!!!!!!


I always wondered why they need drawings if they are only going to inspect the work done.

Tagger 09-04-2012 07:14 PM

I've been doing commercial building for 27yrs. now ,, Boston Carpenter... Did 12 yrs .. residential / builders before that but everything has changed so much . I have to take a class to renew my Supervisors license. From what I hear everything is changing again . Including building framing ... We are getting greener .. I won't know until I take the course but heard something as easy as framing an outside corner that use to require 4 studs (or 3 and scraps) they want you to do with 2 studs .. wood equal heat loss .. Any work I do now is steel stud ,, screw gun ,, powder activated tools . 58 and I'm still learning .


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