I guess you've never read the legislation.

it should change your view on people

most people don't carry concealed Ar's for protection, nobody that I know of. Have you read doctors reports of what a shotgun blast does to ones organs?

people kill people, the guns don't pull their own triggers and shoot themselves.

Liberty built this country and if you take it away, we will lose this country.

Nuclear weapons don't "pull their own triggers and shoot themselves" yet for some reason we don't want NK to have them.

Well, perhaps it's just because it's not practical and even in open carry states doesn't seem like it's regarded very favorably by the general public or police. As for shotguns, now you get into range and capacity neither of which favor violent crime.

Hold your breath and count backwards from 100
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Oh, the dems controlled congress in 2013? If that is the case, I am confused about history.

Doctors and law enforcement are much more concerned about ARs than shotguns for mass shootings. You know guns, so you would be too if that were your concern. I defer to them over people with a infatuation for a weapon. AR is fun to shoot. Has no effect on my liberty if I can'r have one any more than not having a rocket launcher or tommy gun. A gun isn't liberty.

Are you talking Senate or House of Representatives?
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You can see the irony of your follow along comment, right? :scream:

They did control congress (both houses), for Obama's first two years. For a good chunk of that time they had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. I don't think the GOP could have stopped them from doing a thing. Yet they didn't.

Lots of blame here, both parties, the NRA, law enforcement, lots of blame...

Not for you. Not for me. But for many it is.

Obama effectively had 72 days of filibuster-proof majority- from September 24. 2009 to February 4, 2010. That is also an aside given that my statement was about 2013, when congress voted down every Obama and democrat backed measure.

Looks like 8 years of "Blue" Senate to me. Maybe not FB proof, but dem controlled.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped....S._Senate.png

Quite lucid and relaxed here. I'll put on another pot for tea if it will make you feel good.

And for the entire first 2 years, the Democrats controlled both houses. They got a lot of big stuff done, like the stimulus. The could have done something with guns, right? They chose not to.

I hear you about 2013. But for 08-09 he had both houses. He did zip on guns and immigration.

Yes, congress is what I said. And he didn't have a filibuster proof majority in the senate for but 72 days. That is how Republicans were able to block his agenda after Sandy Hook. He also only had any majority in the senate for 7 years, not 8.

House passed stimulus in January 2009 with no Republican votes. Senate passed it with 61 votes (3 republicans). Signed into law in February 2009. You are right though, he did get big things done during those few days when they had control. Don't think he could have tied gun legislation into the stimulus though...

Not sure why gun control would had to have been tied to the stimulus. No rule saying they couldn't pass more than one bill during that time. You cannot say that the GOP kept him from passing gun reform during his presidency. Not during the early days. Let's be honest.

Sure you can, dealing with the recession and health care were the priorities. With zero bi-partisan support gun control would have still been nearly impossible and a mid-term issue as well.

Ok. Gop didn't literally keep him from passing gun control until 2013, when they actually did. Feel better about that? We should probably ignore all parts of a presidency outside the first hundred days.
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We don't allow Criminals and mental defectives to have guns, so what the heck is your point?

Now THAT is funny!
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The problem is, based on what happened in FL, we are allowing mental defectives to have guns.

I never said it was not my concern


You and others are never going to understand and it's not my job to inform you, just like it was not my job, but the FBI's job to follow up on the multiple warnings by people about the unstable Cruz. But I am not going to be silent and be thought of as condoning it.

That's cute, a gun isn't liberty. no chit

We are privileged to live in the greatest nation ever and you can thank our founders for framing a constitution that allows us liberties for Capitalism to thrive. Without that you would not have the freedoms you take for granted every single day of your life. Those same liberties can take away liberty, none of us should let that happen.

Like I said, Obama was spinning his wheels and made a reactionary attempt at gun reform. I agree with a lot of what Spence suggested as options for an improved system of gun control. I am not a fan of the NRA although I am sure that without their efforts we would have less liberties. There is no doubt that something is wrong here in the good ole USA with the senseless acts of killing. Let's hope it gets figured out because it is sad to see the innocent die.
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What is the definition of greatest nation ever, other than we are always told that?
What measurements did you use to define that?
Here are the things I found that we are statistically #1 in:
Gun possession, incarceration, women's olympic figure skating medals, the most super rich, wine consumption, number of plastic surgeons, horse exports, breast augmentation, death by violence, Christians, Jews, small arms imports, small arms exports, non-methane voc emissions, corn oil production, cheese, cinnamon imports, etc.
Here is where i found these rankings and maybe someone can find ones that confirm we are the greatest ever.
https://rankingamerica.wordpress.com/

what would be your pick for "greatest nation ever"?...and why?

I am proud of what we have. If you are trying to reinvent the wheel,you will never be happy. There are plenty of shortcomings and a lot to improve upon but that was a very shallow post.
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We're probably near the top of the list for Freedoms and Opportunities
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Oh for Christ's sake. You sound like a sociology professor character in a bad sitcom.

How about the most free, the most generous (by far), providing the most upward economic opportunity, being one of the few to elect an ethnic minority as President.

Pfffttt, what do freedom and opportunity have to do with making a country great.

Before all of this freedom and liberties there was a way to gain riches and power, it was by plundering and force. Now we have Capitalism so hard work,competitive prices, and satisfied consumers are the way to success. Do you see that anywhere else where we have the choices we have here? America= land of opportunity.
That is why we are the best and those who want to continue to erode on our freedoms and liberties will be the ones who destroy this country, not maniac mass murderers with a gun.
Taking the lazy easy way out removing guns for the answer to protect our kids in schools is asinine. Put in safeguards like metal detectors and other solutions for immediate protection. Improve the system to keep arms out of the hands of violent people. Taking away from law abiding is NOT the answer yet half the country seems to think so like Bloomberg and Soros. If they get their way you can kiss your ass goodbye.

Pete, Sea Dangles is right, your post is very shallow. Try to see the positive.

It looked like you were trying to make the point that guns don't kill people - people kill people.

Using that logic nukes don't kill people.

So why is it different between nukes and ARs?

Felons can still buy guns from unlicensed sellers online or at gun shows. Regarding the mentally ill, we don't do anything to establish mental fitness before a gun purchase like some countries do, so unless the buyer was involuntary committed or has a court order declaring they are unfit...they can certainly buy guns.

so go ahead and build one then if you want one

not in my state

Maybe that's one of the reasons why Mass has the lowest gun violence of any state in the USA?

Maybe Florida should have learned it's lesson from the Pulse Night Club shooting and fixed the problem themselves. Nobody is stopping them from being like Mass.
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I think we were the Greatest, probably still are but I think we are in danger of losing our position economically, socially and morally.
The entire nation gets upset about a school shooting and since the 14th how many children have been killed by guns?
Do you think it is more or less than 17?

shows the hypocrisy of the right I guess.