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zimmy 02-25-2018 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles (Post 1138223)
Zimmy, any idea why 5 years after Sandy Hook this was still just an idea? That's right,5 years and even the mighty Obama was still spinning the wheels.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
I think you might be able to look that up yourself. It wasn't "just an idea" it was set to take effect. But you are able to read and writes so you should be able to find out the date it was enacted and maybe even why there was a time period before implementation.

But as far as spinning wheels, he issued 23 executive orders related to gun control and school safety in January 2013.

On the law making side, he called on Congress to pass laws that would: require background checks on all gun sales; restore a ban on "military-style assault weapons"; ban gun magazines with capacities of more than 10 rounds; and toughen penalties on people who sell guns to those who can't have them.

What do you think Bird Sht-Traffic Cone-Comrade will have put together in the next month? Probably not much more than some tweets misquoting his Faux News teachers.

zimmy 02-25-2018 10:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles (Post 1138223)
That's right,5 years and even the mighty Obama was still spinning the wheels.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Again, this isn't rocket science to figure out, but this is relevant to why take-all-your-guns-away-do-nothing(?) Obama was spinning his wheels:

"April 17, 2013
President Obama’s ambitious effort to overhaul the nation’s gun laws in response to December’s school massacre in Connecticut suffered a resounding defeat Wednesday, when every major proposal he championed fell apart on the Senate floor."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.5549decd1035

Sea Dangles 02-25-2018 10:20 PM
Thank you for making my point. There have not been many advances made in gun control for a long time. So you probably understand that it is not easy by this point. Obama was forced to make reactionary attempts to appease the nation and came out swinging. Trump will do the same and get criticized for getting nothing done.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

zimmy 02-25-2018 10:42 PM
That was your point? I like that you said appease the nation. Republicans stopped everything in its tracks even if it was overwhelmingly supported by the nation. Why? They are afraid of the NimRod Association. Pretty sure if the Dems controlled the congress in 2013, Obama would have gotten most of what he called for. Trump has mentioned background checks, age limits for "assault rifles", arming teachers. He will get dem support on two out of three, though dems want no more AR's sold. Guessing once La Pierre gets a hold of Trump, he will get nothing done and you will be right. I will certainly criticize him if that happens.

zimmy 02-25-2018 10:47 PM
Every time one of these massacres happens, I come across articles from ER doctors and the like. Totally changed my view on the AR vs handgun side of the debate.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...n-guns/553937/

scottw 02-26-2018 02:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy (Post 1138220)

so is this stuff from the same page:

[/B]
try to follow along....

Originally Posted by wdmso View Post

President Trump ended an Obama-era gun law(which never went into effect, their words not mine) that required background checks(the law did not change who is required to be the subject of background checks, their words not mine) to ("plausibly", their word not mine)block the sale of guns to people with mental illnesses.

this is Mostly False...but that's why the left likes Snopes:rolleyes:

and...

you understand the president does not write laws...right? I know the left was happy to have Obama act as legislator... so it was effectively a rule...not a law.......Trump signed a bill that repealed an Obama rule that never went into effect

and....

The ACLU, and mental health advocacy organizations backed the repeal that was signed by Mr Trump. Civil libertarians and disability rights activists had serious reservations about the potential for privacy violations and a chilling effect the rule might have on those who need counseling services.

seems as though the Supreme Court, ACLU and disability activists are standing in the way of common sense gun laws

Sea Dangles 02-26-2018 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy (Post 1138228)
That was your point? I like that you said appease the nation. Republicans stopped everything in its tracks even if it was overwhelmingly supported by the nation. Why? They are afraid of the NimRod Association. Pretty sure if the Dems controlled the congress in 2013, Obama would have gotten most of what he called for. Trump has mentioned background checks, age limits for "assault rifles", arming teachers. He will get dem support on two out of three, though dems want no more AR's sold. Guessing once La Pierre gets a hold of Trump, he will get nothing done and you will be right. I will certainly criticize him if that happens.
Bold statement Zimmy. You really go out on a limb with your revisionist history. Too bad the dems didn't control congress. Those pesky checks and balances in our constitution reared their ugly head again.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

wdmso 02-26-2018 07:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1138233)
try to follow along....

Originally Posted by wdmso View Post

President Trump ended an Obama-era gun law(which never went into effect, their words not mine) that required background checks(the law did not change who is required to be the subject of background checks, their words not mine) to ("plausibly", their word not mine)block the sale of guns to people with mental illnesses.

this is Mostly False...but that's why the left likes Snopes:rolleyes:

and...



you understand the president does not write laws...right? I know the left was happy to have Obama act as legislator... so it was effectively a rule...not a law.......Trump signed a bill that repealed an Obama rule that never went into effect

and....

The ACLU, and mental health advocacy organizations backed the repeal that was signed by Mr Trump. Civil libertarians and disability rights activists had serious reservations about the potential for privacy violations and a chilling effect the rule might have on those who need counseling services.

seems as though the Supreme Court, ACLU and disability activists are standing in the way of common sense gun laws



snopes is good because its based on the facts as they are not as we wish them to be

obamas exec order didn't change the law you are correct i should have stated Rule .... but in the end it was rescinded

It merely would have provided a new way to enforce existing restrictions on gun sales by allowing a transfer of information from one agency to another.

The rule was rescinded using a legal procedure called the the Congressional Review Act, which, prior to the Trump Administration, was obscure and little-used. It allows regulations passed in the final days of one administration to be rescinded with a simple majority vote in both chambers of Congress during the first 60 days of a new administration. The Senate sent their repeal of the Obama-era measure for Trump’s signature on 15 February 2017

Republicans choose resend over fix its what they do ACA repeal no fix
the list is endless

spence 02-26-2018 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1138237)
snopes is good because its based on the facts as they are not as we wish them to be
Funny nobody on the Right started hating on Snopes until people started using it to debunk made up stuff passed around online.

spence 02-26-2018 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles (Post 1138227)
Thank you for making my point. There have not been many advances made in gun control for a long time. So you probably understand that it is not easy by this point. Obama was forced to make reactionary attempts to appease the nation and came out swinging. Trump will do the same and get criticized for getting nothing done.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
You have to choose your battles. Nothing is going to get done unless the Dem's take total control or a lot of Republicans rise above the NRA.

Trump will support a few token actions and then claim he tried. The NRA's actions could very well be self defeating.

spence 02-26-2018 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1138138)
brilliant
I guess you've never read the legislation.

Slipknot 02-26-2018 08:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy (Post 1138229)
Every time one of these massacres happens, I come across articles from ER doctors and the like. Totally changed my view on the AR vs handgun side of the debate.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...n-guns/553937/
it should change your view on people

most people don't carry concealed Ar's for protection, nobody that I know of. Have you read doctors reports of what a shotgun blast does to ones organs?

people kill people, the guns don't pull their own triggers and shoot themselves.

Liberty built this country and if you take it away, we will lose this country.

PaulS 02-26-2018 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slipknot (Post 1138253)
people kill people, the guns don't pull their own triggers and shoot themselves.
Nuclear weapons don't "pull their own triggers and shoot themselves" yet for some reason we don't want NK to have them.

spence 02-26-2018 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slipknot (Post 1138253)
most people don't carry concealed Ar's for protection, nobody that I know of. Have you read doctors reports of what a shotgun blast does to ones organs?
Well, perhaps it's just because it's not practical and even in open carry states doesn't seem like it's regarded very favorably by the general public or police. As for shotguns, now you get into range and capacity neither of which favor violent crime.

Sea Dangles 02-26-2018 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence (Post 1138246)
You have to choose your battles. Nothing is going to get done unless the Dem's take total control or a lot of Republicans rise above the NRA.

Trump will support a few token actions and then claim he tried. The NRA's actions could very well be self defeating.
Hold your breath and count backwards from 100
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

zimmy 02-26-2018 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles (Post 1138236)
Bold statement Zimmy. You really go out on a limb with your revisionist history. Too bad the dems didn't control congress. Those pesky checks and balances in our constitution reared their ugly head again.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Oh, the dems controlled congress in 2013? If that is the case, I am confused about history.

zimmy 02-26-2018 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slipknot (Post 1138253)
it should change your view on people

most people don't carry concealed Ar's for protection, nobody that I know of. Have you read doctors reports of what a shotgun blast does to ones organs?

people kill people, the guns don't pull their own triggers and shoot themselves.

Liberty built this country and if you take it away, we will lose this country.
Doctors and law enforcement are much more concerned about ARs than shotguns for mass shootings. You know guns, so you would be too if that were your concern. I defer to them over people with a infatuation for a weapon. AR is fun to shoot. Has no effect on my liberty if I can'r have one any more than not having a rocket launcher or tommy gun. A gun isn't liberty.

The Dad Fisherman 02-26-2018 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy (Post 1138267)
Oh, the dems controlled congress in 2013? If that is the case, I am confused about history.
Are you talking Senate or House of Representatives?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

zimmy 02-26-2018 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy (Post 1138225)

On the law making side, he called on Congress to pass laws that would:
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1138233)
try to follow along....



you understand the president does not write laws...right? s
You can see the irony of your follow along comment, right? :scream:

Jim in CT 02-26-2018 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles (Post 1138236)
Bold statement Zimmy. You really go out on a limb with your revisionist history. Too bad the dems didn't control congress. Those pesky checks and balances in our constitution reared their ugly head again.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
They did control congress (both houses), for Obama's first two years. For a good chunk of that time they had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. I don't think the GOP could have stopped them from doing a thing. Yet they didn't.

Lots of blame here, both parties, the NRA, law enforcement, lots of blame...

Jim in CT 02-26-2018 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy (Post 1138268)
A gun isn't liberty.
Not for you. Not for me. But for many it is.

zimmy 02-26-2018 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1138271)
They did control congress (both houses), for Obama's first two years. For a good chunk of that time they had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. I don't think the GOP could have stopped them from doing a thing. Yet they didn't.

Lots of blame here, both parties, the NRA, law enforcement, lots of blame...
Obama effectively had 72 days of filibuster-proof majority- from September 24. 2009 to February 4, 2010. That is also an aside given that my statement was about 2013, when congress voted down every Obama and democrat backed measure.

The Dad Fisherman 02-26-2018 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy (Post 1138273)
Obama effectively had 72 days of filibuster-proof majority- from September 24. 2009 to February 4, 2010. That is also an aside given that my statement was about 2013, when congress voted down every Obama and democrat backed measure.
Looks like 8 years of "Blue" Senate to me. Maybe not FB proof, but dem controlled.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped....S._Senate.png

spence 02-26-2018 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles (Post 1138265)
Hold your breath and count backwards from 100
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Quite lucid and relaxed here. I'll put on another pot for tea if it will make you feel good.

Jim in CT 02-26-2018 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy (Post 1138273)
Obama effectively had 72 days of filibuster-proof majority- from September 24. 2009 to February 4, 2010. That is also an aside given that my statement was about 2013, when congress voted down every Obama and democrat backed measure.
And for the entire first 2 years, the Democrats controlled both houses. They got a lot of big stuff done, like the stimulus. The could have done something with guns, right? They chose not to.

I hear you about 2013. But for 08-09 he had both houses. He did zip on guns and immigration.

zimmy 02-26-2018 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman (Post 1138276)
Looks like 8 years of "Blue" Senate to me. Maybe not FB proof, but dem controlled.
[/IMG]
Yes, congress is what I said. And he didn't have a filibuster proof majority in the senate for but 72 days. That is how Republicans were able to block his agenda after Sandy Hook. He also only had any majority in the senate for 7 years, not 8.

zimmy 02-26-2018 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1138279)
And for the entire first 2 years, the Democrats controlled both houses. They got a lot of big stuff done, like the stimulus. The could have done something with guns, right? They chose not to.

I hear you about 2013. But for 08-09 he had both houses. He did zip on guns and immigration.
House passed stimulus in January 2009 with no Republican votes. Senate passed it with 61 votes (3 republicans). Signed into law in February 2009. You are right though, he did get big things done during those few days when they had control. Don't think he could have tied gun legislation into the stimulus though...

Jim in CT 02-26-2018 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy (Post 1138281)
House passed stimulus in January 2009 with no Republican votes. Senate passed it with 61 votes (3 republicans). Signed into law in February 2009. You are right though, he did get big things done during those few days when they had control. Don't think he could have tied gun legislation into the stimulus though...
Not sure why gun control would had to have been tied to the stimulus. No rule saying they couldn't pass more than one bill during that time. You cannot say that the GOP kept him from passing gun reform during his presidency. Not during the early days. Let's be honest.

spence 02-26-2018 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1138282)
Not sure why gun control would had to have been tied to the stimulus. No rule saying they couldn't pass more than one bill during that time. You cannot say that the GOP kept him from passing gun reform during his presidency. Not during the early days. Let's be honest.
Sure you can, dealing with the recession and health care were the priorities. With zero bi-partisan support gun control would have still been nearly impossible and a mid-term issue as well.

zimmy 02-26-2018 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1138282)
Not sure why gun control would had to have been tied to the stimulus. No rule saying they couldn't pass more than one bill during that time. You cannot say that the GOP kept him from passing gun reform during his presidency. Not during the early days. Let's be honest.
Ok. Gop didn't literally keep him from passing gun control until 2013, when they actually did. Feel better about that? We should probably ignore all parts of a presidency outside the first hundred days.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device


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