alternative to wall
 

anti trumpers say the wall won’t work. they seem to prefer cameras, drones, etc.

a question for those who agree. if a camera happens to catch a group of ms13 members crossing the border, and the nearest cops are 10 miles away, how do we stop them, exactly? cameras and drones might see who is crossing, but how do they stop who is crossing?

of course walls
work. that’s why people still build them. they aren’t perfect, they don’t last forever, it won’t reduce illegal immigration to zero ( but obviously will reduce it), and it won’t cure cancer or end poverty. it will help. if you disagree, you’re not rational. you’re just not. not every single person can get around the wall.

Jim breathe.
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The cameras and drones will show them where we need to put the walls
Simple
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this from the guy who said trumps facts were wrong, and naturally didn’t provide the
actual facts. you also posted a link opposing the wall as ineffective, because storms can damage the wall. spence, storms can also damage the walls of your home, so did you choose not to use walls in your home? if your walls work
even though they are not impervious to weather, but the southern wall is ineffective unless it lasts forever, why isn’t your argument a stupid, steaming pile of hypocrisy?
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that makes sense.
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Hmm, Yuma Arizona lengthened their wall from 5 miles to 60 miles, and then border arrests went down by 95%, and crime went down by 91%.

But because arrests and crime didn't converge to zero, I'm supposed to believe that walls don't work?


https://www.theepochtimes.com/sherif...t_2749236.html

Ask Israel if their Wall has worked in keeping unwanted visitors away. They work,only a real ass hat would say otherwise.
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If the wall works so well, why this??


https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...estine-deaths/
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Nebe,go back and check the number of incidents before the Wall was built. Then tell me they don’t work. It doesn’t fix everything but certainly makes things more difficult for the bad hombres. Egypt also has had success in Gaza with fencing as has Spain on their border with Morocco. Check out the reduction in illegal crossings this fence has had for the Spaniards. It’s startling. Educate yourself and make informed decisions.
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should put solar panels and wind turbines on top of the wall....call it a "smart wall" or a "green wall"..oooh...call it a "comprehensive" wall...it could power and even pay for itself over time and good for the environment, say it's federally funded "planned immigranthood"......promise to name it after some leftist southern icon....like Che Guevara...leftists embrace big smart sounding words and phrases that they feel smart repeating even if they can't spell them or use properly in a sentence...Trump could have a lot more fun with this...ya gotta know how to talk to these people in their language

nebe, youbare making the insane argument that because walls aren’t perfect, they don’t work. it’s a stupid, nonsensical argument. nothing is perfect. thats so intellectually bankrupt.

nebe, there are people
out there who know how to pick locks. yet you still shut your door and lock it. Why do you do that? using your logic, locks and doors don’t reduce crime to zero, so therefore they don’t work and are a waste of money.

walls aren’t perfect. but they help. of course they work. all the data, as well as common sense, tell us they work.
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trump needs to build a big beautiful wall so when he deports all of the democrats they can't get back in :happy:

Correct
and add to that point the fact that it costs the taxpayers 500 billion dollars for the undocumented(illegal) immigrants who cut in line each year, so leftists refuse to pony up 1 percent of that yearly cost that would stop 95% of the crossings to build a better barrier(wall) which is only a part of solving a problem(crisis) not the be all end all.
Liberalism is most definitely a mental disorder, how else do you explain the lack of understanding the obvious? All about power, these #^&#^&#^&#^&s just want to stay in power and get more power and idiots elect them. Not that there are not idiots on the other side as well but conservative ideology is a lot closer to what I agree with and common sense. BUT TRUMP!

you all whine about hissy fits, manufactured crisis, fear and on and on, I say get over yourselves and get on with life.

so i’ve had my question out here for a few hours ( how do cameras and sensors stop illegals
from entering), and i see
exactly zero responses to the question.

guys, when your beliefs can not withstand the scrutiny of such an obvious question, it’s tome to ask yourselves why you believe what you believe.
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1st there aren't that many ms13ers --- but since this is a hypothetical question.

You send out an agent(s) to get them. While the Trumpanists (i guess you are either an anti Trumper or the opposite) seem to believe the land that is being discussed is like Israel or Tijuana where you walk out of a house, walk 50 yards to the border and then another 50 yards to a house on the other side the truth is much different. Most of the land that Trump is talking about (I think since he changes his mind every day) is very rural (or even desert). That is why for many years people have died of thirst trying to get across the border.

If we were talking about putting a fence up in San Diego, I would have no problem with it. There has been a few miles of new fencing put up (and still being put up) in areas that have seen increased activity.



"Nearly every lawmaker who represents a district or state along the U.S.-Mexico border — including two Republicans — either opposes outright or more quietly declines to support President Donald Trump’s $5.7 billion request for a border wall, according to a survey conducted by POLITICO.

The dissenters include Texas Rep. Will Hurd, the only Republican House member who represents a border district, and Texas Sen. John Cornyn, who will accompany the president on Thursday. Cornyn dodged questions Wednesday about whether he backs Trump’s $5.7 billion demand.

“I support a solution to the problem,” Cornyn told reporters when asked specifically about the sum. “I think it’s going to be negotiated.”

Cornyn was more blunt Monday talking to Fox News. “Coming from Texas with a 1,200-mile common border with Mexico," he said, "the idea of a wall is somewhat off-putting to a lot of people.”

In a separate Fox News interview Tuesday, Cornyn said: "There is no one-size-fits-all prescription for the entire border. It's quite a diverse geography.”

POLITICO polled the offices of 17 Senate and House members who represent Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California about Trump’s $5.7 billion border barrier request. Only two — Sens. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) and Martha McSally (R-Ariz.) — said they supported it.

In the House, eight of nine border lawmakers are Democrats. The Democratic members all told POLITICO they’re against the $5.7 billion request. Instead, they favor spending for increased border security technology, improved screening at ports of entry and more personnel to handle asylum processing.

Rep. Xochitl Torres Small, a newly elected Democrat who represents a New Mexico district with more than 175 miles of U.S.-Mexico border, opposes Trump’s request. She said a wall across her entire district would be “fiscally irresponsible,” since mountains provide natural barriers, but added that existing fencing in high-traffic areas makes sense.

"You send out an agent(s) to get them"

What if when the agent gets there, they aren't exactly where they were, when they were caught on camera? What if the nearest agent is 20 miles away when they are caught on camera? Are we going to have a drone follow each person, to lead an agent to each person? I guess that could work.

"While the Trumpanists (i guess you are either an anti Trumper or the opposite)"

Here's what I am. I am someone who thinks he's an awful human being, who is doing some really good things as POTUS, and some bad things as POTUS, but more good than bad in terms of policy (not behavior). Categorize that any way you want.

""Nearly every lawmaker who represents a district or state along the U.S.-Mexico border — including two Republicans — either opposes outright or more quietly declines to support President Donald Trump’s $5.7 billion request for a border wall, according to a survey conducted by POLITICO."

The lawmakers and border patrol agents that I have seen on TV (not a credible sample perhaps), overwhelmingly say it will help. I'll trust law enforcement, WAY before I trust a politician. Especially in the Trump era, where all that matters is making him look bad.

Looks like a lot to me

Mara Salvatrucha MS-13


Founding location: Los Angeles, California, U.S.

Years active: 1980s–present

Territory: El Salvador; Guatemala; Honduras; United States; Compton, California; Los Angeles, California; Boston, Massachusetts; Fresno, California; Santa Cruz, California; New York City

Ethnicity: Mostly Salvadorans, Hondurans, and Guatemalans

Membership: 8,000–10,000 (U.S.)
30,000–50,000 (worldwide)[1]

Criminal activities: Drug trafficking, illegal immigration, people smuggling, robbery, larceny, human trafficking, extortion, murder, money laundering, prostitution (including child prostitution), racketeering, battery, kidnapping, and arms trafficking

Need more than just a fence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HOcncx9oNM

There would be no advantage to the Repubs. along the border to make Trump look bad. Hurd and Cornyn are both against the "wall".

Agreed.

I've never heard a single person, not one, say that all we need is a fence. Trump sure isn't saying that.

Jim, nobody is saying you only rely on a single method. We need a comprehensive approach that includes multimodal security, much improved ports of entry, adequate personnel, realistic guest worker provisions, working with Central American nations to curb corruption and crime etc...it’s a complex issue...but just stomping your feet for a wall which at this point is more symbolic than substance and being justified by fear and misinformation isn’t the way to solve a problem.

Not to mention how Trump’s own policies have made the humanitarian issue much worse. This is by far the most pressing problem which both Democrats and Republicans agreed to additional funding which Trump won’t sign.
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how does
that squishy stuff you
list, eliminate the need for a wall?
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I'll stick with Howard, till I see a plan from Trump
Howard Stern said Wednesday that President Trump’s proposed border wall won’t solve the nation’s immigration problems and was simply cooked up as a campaign tool that “morons can get behind.”

Trump’s demand for funding for the project, which he made a key campaign promise, is at the center of the 19-day partial government shutdown, with congressional Democrats emerging from a White House meeting on Wednesday saying no progress on resolving the conflict has been made.

Stern ripped the controversial wall on his SiriusXM radio program a day after Trump delivered a prime-time address from the Oval Office touting what he called the need for a barrier separating the United States and Mexico.


“The wall’s a problem because it’s a waste of money, even Donald knows that,” said Stern — who goes back decades with Trump, hosting the then-real estate mogul on his show numerous times before his White House bid.

“You gotta know Donald a bit to understand what’s going on here. The wall’s a simplistic answer to our problems with immigration. It’s something that, you know, morons can get behind because they’re like, ‘Oh yeah, if you build a wall no one can get over it.’ But it’s not that simple,” Stern told listeners of his eponymous show.

Stern blasted Trump’s demand of $5.7 billion in funding for the border wall — which Democrats have repeatedly rejected — saying the price tag wouldn’t cover the costs of such an expansive undertaking.

“You’re talking about building a massive wall across this country on the southern border. It’s a tremendous amount of property and a tremendous amount of area to cover,” said Stern. “You’re not going to get a whole wall for $5 billion. If you really want a wall, it’s probably going to cost you some trillions of dollars.”

The commander in chief, Stern exclaimed, should “be straight up with people.”

“I would love to see Donald come on last night and go, ‘F--- this, I’m not going to bull#^&#^&#^&#^& you guys. I want $20 billion.”

On Tuesday, Trump called the southern border a "pipeline for vast quantities of illegal drugs," but Stern argued the president's plan won’t keep drugs or terrorists from entering the country.

“They’re coming into our ports. We need way more security,” Stern told a listener who called in asking why he considered the wall “a problem.”

“I’m all about keeping illegal aliens out because it’s not fair — it’s not fair to people who apply legally,” said Stern. “But at the same point, you can’t be hypocritical and be hiring illegal aliens over at Mar-a-Lago.”

Last month, The New York Times interviewed a woman who said she worked for years as a maid at Bedminster, Trump’s New Jersey golf club, as an undocumented immigrant.

Stern said the ongoing shutdown itself poses a significant risk to national security with so many federal worker furloughed or working without pay.

“Right now we don’t even have air traffic controllers being paid,” said Stern. “Talk about a lack of security. If I’m a terrorist, I’m coming in now. I bet you they’re flooding in while this government shutdown is going on.”

When his caller brought up reports of political figures building security barriers outside their homes, Stern replied, “There’s a wall over the White House … and how many people f---ing climb over it and get close to the White House? A ton. The wall ain’t stopping anybody.”

“Even Donald’s not into this wall. It’s just he’s embarrassed because he can’t get it, and Rush Limbaugh shamed him,” Stern added.

“The whole concept of the wall got him elected, a lot of people could wrap their brain around it. But the wall ain’t going to solve #^&#^&#^&#^&. And it’s going to cost a fortune. Come on, it’s nonsense.”

Do you stick with Howard in everything he says? Is he your go to guy for how and what to think? Or does his opinion occasionally and conveniently agree with what your opinion already is?

Sometimes he's really funny and sometimes he calls a spade a spade.

I should have just chopped the first three sentences and just sent Howard in as a media bomber.

Now that, is enlightening. Good work Peter!
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I think we've discussed many times the potential waste or negatives of a giant wall focused solution. Let the experts assess where we need wall, fence, barrier electronics etc...

Remember as well the wall isn't a 5.7 billion solution, estimates are likely 25 billion or more and 10+ years to construct assuming you can overcome the legal and land owner challenges. Then you have to maintain it...

This isn't the solution to a "security crisis" born at a campaign rally.

The dems voted for a wall in 2006 and 2013, so what campaign rally
are you referring to?

Where were those walls built under those acts?

It would be cheaper and a lot less headaches to give California to Mexico

The hatred of Trump is the whole problem with the issue and simple economics.