interesting
 

March 6, 2016

Dem turnout and voter ID: The dirty little secret
By Thomas Lifson

The numbers tell a story, and you can draw the obvious conclusions. Because the mainstream media certainly won’t. Keep this statistic in mind the next time some progressive tries to claim voter fraud is not a serious problem.

Political Wire quotes the HuffPo:


Huffington Post: “Eight out of the 16 states that have held primaries or caucuses so far have implemented new voter ID or other restrictive voting laws since 2010. Democratic turnout has dropped 37 percent overall in those eight states, but just 13 percent in the states that didn’t enact new voter restrictions. To put it another way, Democratic voter turnout was 285 percent worse in states with new voter ID laws.”

Left unsaid: despite the “burden” of obtaining voter ID, GOP turnout was up.

Clearly this is racist.
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The key argument against voter ID laws is that they disproportionately disenfranchise minorities. glad to see you've come around on this one.
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they disproportionately disenfranchise minorities = CRAP

the argument that someone can't get an ID is for morons

Funny, the huffpo article you cite discusses that but you forgot to post it.
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And the idea that there is voter fraud is moronic.

that's quite a statement

it's the huffington post...sooo

"Democratic voter turnout was down 50 percent in the Lone Star State from 2008, more than in any other early-voting state so far."


Giddayup!!

So tell me, why is it harder for a black person to get a photo id, than it is for a white person? Do we make the non-whites stand in a longer line, preferably outside in the rain?

Please be very specific. I cannot wait for your reply...

if you can register to vote, you can have an ID

there is nothing disproportionate about it

no one is keeping minorities down

Jim is right, this ought to be interesting how it is answered

a)white male priviledge

b) The 1%

c) Crony capitalism

d) Sarah Palin

e) all of the above

Even the judge in the voter ID law case said he was wrong. Repubs. do everything they can to make it harder to vote - less early balloting, etc. Pathetic

"But there was Richard A. Posner, one of the most distinguished judges in the land and a member of the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit, saying he was mistaken in one of the most contentious issues in American politics and jurisprudence: laws that require people to show identification before they can vote.
Proponents of voter identification laws, who tend to be Republican, say the measures are necessary to prevent fraud at the polls. Opponents, who tend to be Democrats, assert that the amount of fraud at polling places is tiny, and that the burdens of the laws are enough to suppress voting, especially among poor and minority Americans.

One of the landmark cases in which such requirements were affirmed, Crawford v. Marion County Election Board, was decided at the Seventh Circuit in an opinion written by Judge Posner in 2007 and upheld by the Supreme Court in 2008.

In a new book, “Reflections on Judging,” Judge Posner, a prolific author who also teaches at the University of Chicago Law School, said, “I plead guilty to having written the majority opinion” in the case. He noted that the Indiana law in the Crawford case is “a type of law now widely regarded as a means of voter suppression rather than of fraud prevention.”

Asked whether the court had gotten its ruling wrong, Judge Posner responded: “Yes. Absolutely.” Back in 2007, he said, “there hadn’t been that much activity in the way of voter identification,” and “we weren’t really given strong indications that requiring additional voter identification would actually disenfranchise people entitled to vote.” The member of the three-judge panel who dissented from the majority decision, Terence T. Evans, “was right,” Judge Posner said.

The dissent by Judge Evans, who died in 2011, began, “Let’s not beat around the bush: The Indiana voter photo ID law is a not-too-thinly-veiled attempt to discourage election-day turnout by certain folks believed to skew Democratic.”

Repubs. will even admit it is to lower the turnout - pathetic.

A new Florida law that contributed to long voter lines and caused some to abandon voting altogether was intentionally designed by Florida GOP staff and consultants to inhibit Democratic voters, former GOP officials and current GOP consultants have told The Palm Beach Post.
Republican leaders said in proposing the law that it was meant to save money and fight voter fraud. But a former GOP chairman and former Gov. Charlie Crist, both of whom have been ousted from the party, now say that fraud concerns were advanced only as subterfuge for the law’s main purpose: GOP victory.
Former Republican Party of Florida Chairman Jim Greer says he attended various meetings, beginning in 2009, at which party staffers and consultants pushed for reductions in early voting days and hours.

“The Republican Party, the strategists, the consultants, they firmly believe that early voting is bad for Republican Party candidates,” Greer told The Post. “It’s done for one reason and one reason only. … ‘We’ve got to cut down on early voting because early voting is not good for us,’ ” Greer said he was told by those staffers and consultants.

“They never came in to see me and tell me we had a (voter) fraud issue,” Greer said. “It’s all a marketing ploy.”

Another one who admits the truth.
This weekend, Pennsylvania Republican House Leader Mike Turzai (R-PA) finally admitted what so many have speculated: Voter identification efforts are meant to suppress Democratic votes in this year’s election.

At the Republican State Committee meeting, Turzai took the stage and let slip the truth about why Republicans are so insistent on voter identification efforts — it will win Romney the election, he said:

“We are focused on making sure that we meet our obligations that we’ve talked about for years,” said Turzai in a speech to committee members Saturday. He mentioned the law among a laundry list of accomplishments made by the GOP-run legislature.

“Pro-Second Amendment? The Castle Doctrine, it’s done. First pro-life legislation – abortion facility regulations – in 22 years, done. Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done.”

The voter ID laws bother me less than the shortening of hours but minortities (a higher % vote Dem.) have less need for ID. The most common voter ID is a driver’s license, and minorities are less likely to drive. Minorities are less likely to have driver’s licenses because they are more likely to be poor and to live in urban areas. If you can’t afford a car, or if you don’t need one because you take the bus or subway, you are less likely to have a driver’s license. Students are less likely to have driver’s for the same reason. Driver’s licenses are not the only form of id, but minorities don't have as much access to other legally forms such as Passports, military IDs or other government-issued photo ID

Paul, I see a whole lot of theory here, and little detail.

"the Indiana law in the Crawford case is “a type of law now widely regarded as a means of voter suppression rather than of fraud prevention.”

How? How doe sit suppress votes, particularly nonwhite votes?

if we are talking about generic suppression, well, it makes sense that any rule that makes it burdensome to vote, will suppress voter turnout. Here in CT, I believe you have to register before election day. That will result in fewer voters, sure, but it's not designed to disproportionately suppress nonwhite votes or liberal votes. Nonwhites have the same opportunity to register. if they choose not to, or if they choose not to get a photo id, that's a result of their laziness, it has nothing to do with racism.

"The Indiana voter photo ID law is a not-too-thinly-veiled attempt to discourage election-day turnout by certain folks believed to skew Democratic.”

Again, HOW is that aimed at suppressing Democrats more than Republicans? People can say it again and again and again...but they never offer the link, as to why this suppresses Democrat voters more than it suppresses Republican voters.

Paul, are you and Spence saying, simply, the Democrat population is less likely to jump through whatever hoops are mandated, than Republicans? Is that what you are saying? Or are you saying that the actual process of getting an id, is more burdensome to blacks/Democrats?

I'm guessing that's what you are saying, you just don't want to say it out loud.

If you say you need a photo id, and the process for getting a photo id is identical for whites, blacks, republicans, and democrats...how is that racist?

It makes ZERO sense to me.

"minorities don't have as much access to other legally forms such as Passports, military IDs or other government-issued photo ID"

Please explain, exactly, why minorities have less access to government-issued photo id's, than whites. It's not true just because you say it.

if the process for getting a photo id (other than driver's license) is the same for whites and blacks (and I have to believe it is the same), than why do blacks have "less access"? Please support your conclusion that minorities have less access to these ids? Based on what? What, exactly, reduces their access? Are all the places to get those ids, located in gated, white communities? Does the Klan run the offices where they are handed out? Are applicants required to name their favorite Bing Crosby song, or answer questions about fox hunting or falconry?

They don't have as much access to the registry of motor vehicles as anyone else? :huh: You can get an ID there as simple as standing in line with proper form of identification like utility bills , birth certificate etc.

explain this reason of not having as much access to me, I'm at a loss

I bet if they required ID for alcohol or smokes, everybody would have one.
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Here's an idea for you, place photo's on EBT cards, that way, "POOF" all Democrats now have a state issued photo ID card.


Could also assist in EBT fraud prevention. just an idea.....

this is incredibly racist

Reread my statement bc that is not what I said.

You mean Democrats all get EBT cards?

Correction - it would be racist, if you or I said it.

Paul, if all that is true, I would think you'd be in favor of restricted-hours voting, because according to you, the Democrats are the ones home all day and can easily get to the polls, while people on my side are at work all day, so it's less convenient for us to vote.

Is that a form of a straw man arguement?

Show me where anyone accused you of being racist here.

Did I say minorities are home all day? Pls. point that out.

Sigh.

I asked you, why the ID requirement is more harmful to blacks than to whites. I asked for specific reasons.

What we got from you., was a series of quotes from people who agree it's more harmful to blacks.

That doesn't respond to my question, not even close. I didn't ask you "who else agrees with you"? What I asked for, was a reason why.

You said fewer blacks have driver's licenses than whites. That doesn't answer my question either. Because if there are 100 blacks without a driver's license, and 5 whites, you are saying that the blacks have "less access" to government id's than the whites.

That's what you said - they have less access.

I'd like to know why you think that is? Based on what, exactly? Why i sthe process for getting ids, more cumbersome for blacks than it is for whites?

If you cannot answer that, then why do you believe what you believe? There's not a singke opinion I have, that I can't justify with pertinent supporting logic. All you have here, is a baseless accusation that the process is racist.

If it's a cultural thing, that blacks are just too lazy to go to city hal;l to get the card, that's a function of their cultural failure, it's not a function of racism. Because the fact is (unless you can explain otherwise), they have the exact same access to thise ids that I have. The same exact access.

Either tell me why I am wrong, or admit you can't support your opinion...

It was hyperbole and sarcasm, OK?

What you absolutely did say, is that blacks have less access to governemnt id's, than whites. Please justify that statement. Based on what?

Do I have to spell it out? A lower % of minorities and students have licenses bc they have less need for a car bc of living in cities.

Do you agree that there is little fraud in our elections?

They may have less need for these......but their access to Them is exactly the same as everybody else.....they can go to the exact same building, stand in the exact same line, and deal with the exact same cranky DMV employee as the rest of us......if they so CHOOSE.....

Students have student IDs.....correct....there is their form of ID.

Anybody over the age of 18 can get a state ID card.....not a license......not a passport......just a simple ID card. That is what my son has.


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Let me try again, because you are not answering the question that is being asked.

I concede that a higher % of blacks don't have a driver's livcense, than the corresponding % of whites.

Here is my question...if you don't have a driver's license, you can get another photo id. Why is it harder for blacks to get that id, than it is for whites?

Do blacks have, or do they not have, the same exact access to an alternate form of government id, as whites?

"Do you agree that there is little fraud in our elections"

Here, I will show you how to give a direct answer to a direct question, which you haven't been able to do for me yet. YES, I agree that voter fraud isn't a huge issue. See? I answered the question which you are asking.

I also contend that while it isn't a huge issue, it is a minor issue, and if it can be minimized by asking people to get a photo ide, I fail to see how that violates anyone's rights. What that does, is preserve the integrity of the voting process.

I do not have a strong opinion on requiring phot ids. What I do feel strongly about, is that the idea has no racial implications whatsoever. Every single black person who doesn't have a driver's license but wants to vote, can get his ass to town hall or wherever and get the alternate photo id.

Now, please tell us, why it's harder for blacks to get an alternate form pf photo id (besides a drivers license) compared to whites? I concede yoru point that MORE blacks need such a photo id. But your side says that it's HARDER for blacks to get that id. That's what I dispute.

BINGO.

You might have added, "try making that wrong". Other than that, it was perfect.

Paul, it doesn't need to be a driver's license. Every state offers a photo id card that's not a driver's license, and many people of all races, get them.

And access to these cards, as well as to driver's licenses, is exactly the same for all of us, regardless of skin color. A photo id requirement has absolutely zero inherent racial bias. It may well turn out that such a requirement suppresses black votes more than it suppresses white votes (I wouldn't bet against that outcome), but that's a choice made by people to not get the id, it's not the inevitable result of institutional racism. Every single black person who doesn't drive, every single one of them, could get that id if they chose. It's no more of a burden for them than it is for white folk who don't drive.