lets talk herring
 

ok,, not wanting to start a flame war here. :smokin:
but anyone else think this total herring ban is gunna work?

lemmie just say a few things first.
there's no herring down south,, the cape,, etc.. right?
up north there's thousands.
i live 1/4 mile from the ***** runs, yes runs, there's more than a few.:faga: and i see no shortage of herring what-so-ever.
i'm there, three-four times a day watchin':eyes: lookin for the little critters. even down river to the locks,, they come bye the thousands, maybe tens of thousands..
sure,, you go at noon on a bright sunny day they aren't there..but come quiet time it's astounding.:eek5:
i took over 600 last spring...wait a minute... they were ALL legal.. 25 fish per person, per open day.mon. wed. fri. sat. x2 guys you get the picture..and i know guys :devil2: {some from this site} who took many more than me..before you go saying i'm a reason for the problem. lemmie say i been going there for 10 years and it's the same thing every year. so,,, our impact has not had an effect on our runs..
they come, they spawn, and they come back like clockwork.
even with some,, uhh,,"non fishermen",,,, taking trashbags/coolers full :rocketem:


how is closing MY run gunna bring back the herring to the cape? or rhode island?

these fish return to the same river to spawn right?

there is no ladder at my run. it fell down some years ago. it's the end of the line..maybe someone could help me/guide me the right button to push to get a ladder put in?


i think? :huh: one of the problems down south,, for example,, is they give you something like 11 fish that the warden scoops outta the ladders for you? right?
why take the strong, willing {horney} fish outta the ladders?

lastly,,why not transplant my pregnant fish down south?:think:
trust me it ain't that hard to make baby herring,, anyone with a backyard pond can get herring to re-produce:humpty:
i released more babys than i took.

i fish live bait. and i'm gunna need a reality check come spring.
:hidin:

Interesting post Freak, im curious to see the responses.
Id assume that if the numbers of herring go back up, the population would look for other rivers to spawn in, and return to the other native herring rivers along the coast...just as bass did when the population came back.
Here on Long Island ive seen the herring runs before, and it can be an amazing site.

Yeah, we use to have great runs here in RI until the GD Russian factory ships showed up and sucked them all up. Now you are luck if you get 5 or 6 working a run for 3 hours.

you could walk on them at times in a few spots I know of on the south shore. Obviously a ban can't hurt the fishes stock, but I hope there are no loopholes where trawlers can legally target the same fish. Only banning we land lubbers from getting our keep aint fair.

They'll be F&$##@N jerks taking them from unpatroled area and be fishing them in undisclosed locations, of this I am sure. What are the fines going to be for illegal posession, have they changed (I thought it was a flat $50 fine)

2004 over 5000 went thru the fish ladder in Lawrence
2005 less than 500 went thru.
IMO there is something wrong

[QUOTE=thefishingfreak]ok,, not wanting to start a flame war here. :smokin:
but anyone else think this total herring ban is gunna work?

lemmie just say a few things first.
there's no herring down south,, the cape,, etc.. right?
up north there's thousands.
QUOTE]

I don't know where you are getting your information from. I live mid-cape. All of our runs have some fish, but nowhere near what it was a few years ago

Connecticut has closed their runs and, I hear RI is looking to do the same. I just read where NH is in the process of closing theirs' too. Southern Maine rivers have very few fish.

As for enforcement, once a few get caught and fined and word gets out, it should deter the others. Here on the cape, various saltwater clubs have/are adopting runs and will help restore them and patrol them. In my area, the Cape Cod Salties are involved with mid-cape runs.

[QUOTE=Offshore]
that was hypathetcal...
i'm saying the main reason for the total ban was "very few" fish down south,, cape,,, etc...
right?

i get my info fom here:eyes: ,,, myself...
like i said... i'm there all the time,and at more than four runs,, and i never seen anyone counting fish or anyone who could care less but me and fellow fishermen..
that river in lawrence has more herring than one can imagine. but no-ones counting at the right time..trust me there's thousands there too..
my bud gill nets them in NH rivers...lots of them.... legaly.. same thing.. no-ones there to care......

I asked this question myself and what I found out is there is a counter at the runs not a person but an optical one that gets the number. I went to 4 runs myself last year I did not take 1 fish just not my type of fishing. and I was white the opposit than you a complete lack of fish in any quantity.

Who is regulating these Russian ships in our waters taking our fish?

The runs on the south shore were pretty barren this past spring Mike....Weymouth was horrible, Middleboro was also bad and they are usually so thick in Middleboro you can walk across them for weeks! The Bournedale herring run was terrible.......something has to give Mike and its gotta start somewhere! Seems like you are only thinking of yourself Mike....(don't take that the wrong way)....but in order to improve things all around, everyone has got to co-operate and maybe even suffer a little. My opinion however Mike is that its not the use of the herring by recreational sector that has depleted the stocks.....it is all the damage done by the commercial sector.....like it or not....my opinion is that the commercial sector does most of the damage to any fish stock due to overfishing, pure negligence, gluttony, greed and downright stupidity! So they penalize all for the acts of many! I do not fish live herring...never have so I don't really care one way or the other! Learn to fish those plugs you are making Mike....or build some that are good herring imitators.:huh:

Those Russian ships are supplied by local fisherman.The Russians don't actually do any fishing they just buy and process.The Russians are invited here by the US government.The locals catching the herring are also sibsidized by the government.

The contribution of just one person will have a impact on the herring population.
Females usually reach 100% maturity by age 5 and produce from 60,000 - 103,000 eggs.
If 300 of 600 herring of fishfreaks take are females that is a large amount even with a 30% mortality.
We should be thankful that at least there is an effort to increase the population.

this is not a new problem.Connecticut's runs have been banned for 4 or 5 years now it's a problem that is speading north it seems.the scary part is ct runs have not improved at all since the bans.Something needs to be done about the manegment of the bait fish.

Tho I've never fished herring, I've noticed a huge drop in populations over the years at runs that I've visited since mu childhood. We used to trap chubs and eels at these places and the herring were a nuisance in the 60's. Now only a few chubs are left...The herring need a break.

Regional closings or closing specific runs woudn't work because people would drive to the nearest one that is open. As it is, unless they close the runs in RI a bunch of MA guys will be driving down there and putting even more pressure on them. The main problems I see with the ban (and I do not have a ton of info on it) is that it does not seem to address the primary problem which is commercial fishing outside of US waters and that it'll just shift pressure to other bait fish that are already on the decline, such as mackerel and menhaden, as a bait source.

Personally... I don't think the majority of us have enough scientific evidence to fight this battle. It doesn't matter if you see thousands of herring, there is a problem on a much larger scale and if you want to see your ***** runs wiped out.... leave them open while all the others are closed :sick:. I saw a drop in herring the last few years, but I'll leave the regulations up to the guys whos job it is to make these decisions, they only stand to benefit US in the end.

-Dave

They're going to be seriously disappointed when they get here. Some runs are almost gone. There's only one that I know about that looks extremely healthy. Not sure if it's just a coincidence or not, but nobody really knows about it.

Anyone here know for sure if herring return to the exact same river they were born? I've had biologists tell me yes and no, so I'm not sure what to think. Almost all articles you read about herring say they return to native waters, but sometimes I think the authors just throw that in there assuming they're like salmon.

It takes 4 years for this years' spawn to mature and return to the rivers to make new spawn. For this reason, I say it will take a minimum of 6 years before any improvements are seen.

i'm not just thinking about myself here. don't matter,
i could pound sand for the next three years. whats off limits is off limits..
however i think that just shutting everything down and waiting to see what happens is not the way to go.

you want herring down there?
i know a place there will be tons of big fat pregnant females. come the full moon in may.
we try not to take the big fat females. we try to help them up river.
seems they come in first to lay the eggs,, then we'll see the carp come in like hoovers to suck up the eggs. and then the males will come in to fertilize them..
this is just a guess? based on what i see day to day. hour to hour.

i'm no herring expert but like i said,, i use them.
so tracking whear they are,, what there doing at the runs is high on my list. as whell as other guys i know.

if they do come back to the same river to spawn? i would think transporting pre-spawn fish to a certain area could only help.

Maybe someone should do something about the non-native Carp that are s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g the eggs like Hoovers.

I hate chasing the herrin and paying for the permits!! I have not used them for 3 years now.
I use live scup now, but they were almost as hard to get last summer??

The Problem's Unclear
 

Interesting post.

I have to admit I understand little about where anadromous herring (as opposed to Atlantic herring) spend their time when they're not in rivers--way offshore, nearshore, along shore. NMFS has repeatly noted there's very little interaction between the mid-water trawlers that target Atlantic herring, and bluebacks or alewives. Then again, observer coverage in the form of qualified fish biologists who can differentiate between Atlantics and bluebacks has been very small percentagewise. It could well be that big numbers of river herring are being sucked up in that fishery.

Then again, it could be the resurgence of our beloved striped bass or not-so-beloved dogfish, at the same time many other historic food sources that diverted attention away from river herring (i.e. mackerel, pogies, etc.) that is putting unbelievable pressure on the bluebacks and alewives. Could be more holdover bass waiting in the river systems, could be pollution, could be upstream obstructions.

Complicated problem. I think increased observer coverage on the mid-water boats would be a good starting point to eliminate or confirm that possibility.

Curious to see what others think.

I think the ban should include rhode island as well. We're now trapped between two states where possession is illegal. We're gonna get squeezed even worse... :(

YEp..:(

Not to mention that they shut down the rec scup, so if you didn't have a comm permit you couldn't even have ONE on board.

Mike,
I think that you will be going through the DTs from herring withdrawl come early june !!!

Problem...............now what do I do with all the frozen herring that's in my freezer???????????????????????

feed it to the cat :fishslap:

I'm not sure what State Googanville is in, but where did they shut down the rec scup fishery?