Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating - Israel and World War III part Five

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Israel and World War III part Five

I rarely agree with Krauthammer, but this piece has some very timely observations...

Quote:

Israel's Lost Moment

By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, August 4, 2006; Page A17

Israel's war with Hezbollah is a war to secure its northern border, to defeat a terrorist militia bent on Israel's destruction, to restore Israeli deterrence in the age of the missile. But even more is at stake. Israel's leaders do not seem to understand how ruinous a military failure in Lebanon would be to its relationship with America, Israel's most vital lifeline.

For decades there has been a debate in the United States over Israel's strategic value. At critical moments in the past, Israel has indeed shown its value. In 1970 Israeli military moves against Syria saved King Hussein and the moderate pro-American Hashemite monarchy of Jordan. In 1982 American-made Israeli fighters engaged the Syrian air force, shooting down 86 MiGs in one week without a single loss, revealing a shocking Soviet technological backwardness that dealt a major blow to Soviet prestige abroad and self-confidence among its elites at home (including Politburo member Mikhail Gorbachev).

But that was decades ago. The question, as always, is: What have you done for me lately? There is fierce debate in the United States about whether, in the post-Sept. 11 world, Israel is a net asset or liability. Hezbollah's unprovoked attack on July 12 provided Israel the extraordinary opportunity to demonstrate its utility by making a major contribution to America's war on terrorism.

America's green light for Israel to defend itself is seen as a favor to Israel. But that is a tendentious, misleadingly partial analysis. The green light -- indeed, the encouragement -- is also an act of clear self-interest. America wants, America needs, a decisive Hezbollah defeat.

Unlike many of the other terrorist groups in the Middle East, Hezbollah is a serious enemy of the United States. In 1983 it massacred 241 American servicemen. Except for al-Qaeda, it has killed more Americans than any other terror organization.

More important, it is today the leading edge of an aggressive, nuclear-hungry Iran. Hezbollah is a wholly owned Iranian subsidiary. Its mission is to extend the Islamic Revolution's influence into Lebanon and Palestine, destabilize any Arab-Israeli peace, and advance an Islamist Shiite ascendancy, led and controlled by Iran, throughout the Levant.

America finds itself at war with radical Islam, a two-churched monster: Sunni al-Qaeda is now being challenged by Shiite Iran for primacy in its epic confrontation with the infidel West. With al-Qaeda in decline, Iran is on the march. It is intervening through proxies throughout the Arab world -- Hezbollah in Lebanon, Hamas in Palestine, Moqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi Army in Iraq -- to subvert modernizing, Western-oriented Arab governments and bring these territories under Iranian hegemony. Its nuclear ambitions would secure these advances and give it an overwhelming preponderance of power over the Arabs and an absolute deterrent against serious counteractions by the United States, Israel or any other rival.

The moderate pro-Western Arabs understand this very clearly. Which is why Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan immediately came out against Hezbollah and privately urged the United States to let Israel take down that organization. They know that Hezbollah is fighting Iran's proxy war not only against Israel but also against them and, more generally, against the United States and the West.

Hence Israel's rare opportunity to demonstrate what it can do for its great American patron. The defeat of Hezbollah would be a huge loss for Iran, both psychologically and strategically. Iran would lose its foothold in Lebanon. It would lose its major means to destabilize and inject itself into the heart of the Middle East. It would be shown to have vastly overreached in trying to establish itself as the regional superpower.

The United States has gone far out on a limb to allow Israel to win and for all this to happen. It has counted on Israel's ability to do the job. It has been disappointed. Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has provided unsteady and uncertain leadership. Foolishly relying on air power alone, he denied his generals the ground offensive they wanted, only to reverse himself later. He has allowed his war cabinet meetings to become fully public through the kind of leaks no serious wartime leadership would ever countenance. Divisive cabinet debates are broadcast to the world, as was Olmert's own complaint that "I'm tired. I didn't sleep at all last night" (Haaretz, July 28). Hardly the stuff to instill Churchillian confidence.

His search for victory on the cheap has jeopardized not just the Lebanon operation but America's confidence in Israel as well. That confidence -- and the relationship it reinforces -- is as important to Israel's survival as its own army. The tremulous Olmert seems not to have a clue.

Interesting spence, becuase i agree with most of it also. Krauthammers points about Omert are right on. If Israel is to destroy Hezbaloh, they need to unleash thier entire miltitary and show overwelming force, that will send a HUGE message to that region. Right now they are using just enough force to get the job done. If they unleashed the fury, Hezballah would be destroyed already.

But, when your fighting a PC war, and people watch your every move, you can't unleash totall hell on Hezbolah, that will result in tons of civilian casualties, forcing the world to condem Israel. I believe Israel knows this, so they are forced to fight with one hand behind thier backs. Good for Hezbolah, bad for Israel and thier ultimate goal.

If you're going to fight a war Israel, fight a freakin war and unleash hell on Hezbolah!! None of this using just enough force and making yourselfs look weaker than you really are! Unleash your full force for god sake and wipe Hezbolah out!

what would george washington do????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc9y5ayeeb4

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Originally Posted by Nebe

what would george washington do????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc9y5ayeeb4

Thats just wrong! Yet freakin funny! :laugha:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip N

But, when your fighting a PC war, and people watch your every move, you can't unleash totall hell on Hezbolah, that will result in tons of civilian casualties, forcing the world to condem Israel.

The world doesn't need another excuse to condem Israel...it happens pretty much monthly.

But this war does fit the pattern of behavior, Israeli military action causing much civilian pain and suffering with little to no clear advantage when it's all said and done.

What's worse is that like Iraq, the initial objectives were so absurdly grand that to not achieve them is a net loss.

Our difficulty in Iraq has done much to strengthen the position of Iran, and so does a failed attempt to remove Hezbollah.

-spence

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence

You do know we're also fighting the same PC war in Iraq right? And it drives me nuts. Unleash the US military and let them do what they can do, untie the other hand from behind thier damn backs, and get it on! :nailem:

If we had to fight a PC war back in WWII we'd still be fighting today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip N

PC? By most accounts we've killed from the low 10's to nearly 100,000 civilians in Iraq...There's nothing PC about that.

Find a US Marine that was involved in the major Falluja offensive and ask them if they treaded lightly.

Political correctness is not our problem in Iraq, and it's not Israel's problem in Lebanon.

-spence

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebe

what would george washington do????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc9y5ayeeb4

Thanks Eben!

That made my day....that was great.

Nice piece. Israel has most excellent intelligence. The itty bitty Hezbollah attack and kidnapping was just enough to allow them to base their current project on it.Not enough for many others in this world though.

The decision to clean house this time was made many months ago. I see no end to their conflicts.

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Originally Posted by Skitterpop

Right on Skitter!:jump:

Never have I seen the jumping smiley emoticon used in context of the prospect of perpetual war :huh:

-spence

Hi Spence,

I think I inadvertently hit on something Storm agrees with... his joy is in relation to the many negative responses his posts have received as opposed to the prospects of a perpetual war.

Mike

Good point...it did seem strange ;)

-spence

Al-Zawahiri: Egyptian militant group joins al Qaeda

Group linked to Luxor tourist slaughter, Sadat assassination

Saturday, August 5, 2006; Posted: 6:39 p.m. EDT (22:39 GMT)

var clickExpire = "-1";

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/WORLD/me...awahiri.aj.jpg

In a videotaped statement, Ayman al-Zawahiri said al Qaeda is joining forces with an Egyptian militant group.

(CNN) -- Al Qaeda has joined forces with the long-quiet Egyptian militant group Al-Jamaa Islamiya, according to a videotaped message from Osama bin Laden's top lieutenant that aired Saturday.

Ayman al-Zawahiri said in the message that the two groups will form "one line, facing its enemies."
"May God give us victory with his help," the Egyptian-born al-Zawahiri said on the tape. It aired on the Arabic-language network Al-Jazeera.
It was unclear how many members of Al-Jamaa Islamiya would join al Qaeda's ranks.
In September 2003 Egypt freed more than 1,000 members of the group because of the group's stated "commitment to rejecting violence," then-Interior Minister Habib el-Adli told Al-Jazeera at the time. Egypt released another 900 members of the group, including founder Najeh Ibrahim, in April 2006.
Among those set free in 2003 was the group's leader, Karam Zuhdi, who expressed regret for conspiring with Egyptian Islamic Jihad in the 1981 assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat, according to the Council on Foreign Relations.
Al-Zawahiri is the founder of present-day Egyptian Islamic Jihad and worked in the 1970s to overthrow Sadat and establish an Islamic state. In 1981 he was jailed on conspiracy charges in the Sadat assassination, but was later acquitted.
Al-Jamaa Islamiya renounced bloodshed in 1998 after a wave of violence that claimed about 1,300 lives. Included was a 1997 terror attack against tourists in Luxor in which 71 were killed.
According to the Web site trackingthethreat.com, which describes itself as "a database of open-source information about the al Qaeda terrorist network," Al-Jamaa Islamiya emerged during the 1970s, forming in Egyptian jails and later in some Egyptian universities.

Ahhh, but these types of mergers are pretty common in this economy...

The real question is, will al Qaeda be able to integrate the differing cultures or synergize to create add shareholder value...

Or will they break up Al-Jamaa Islamiya and sell the parts for a profit to balance their sheet ;)

-spence

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hey, I'm all for some bloodletting when appropriate...

But if the solution was found in brute force alone we'd have already won.

-spence

Oh yes...remember SHOCK AND AWE? A reality series so surreal.

I`m just watching all the new sprouts come forth and run crazily to the fight....like poking a stick in a White tailed hornets nest.

uhhhh Sigh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skitterpop

Oh yes...remember SHOCK AND AWE? A reality series so surreal.

I think it should be mandatory for taxpayers to get a full report of every dollar sent to Washington that ends up killing children or civilians.

Not to sound like a liberal weanie, but it would put marketing BS like Shock and Awe where it belongs...

-spence

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence

Not to sound like a liberal weanie, but it would put marketing BS like Shock and Awe where it belongs...

-spence

You always sound like a Liberal weanie :tooth: