Comment on Bush's speech last night
 

I'll skip the myriad of issues from Bush's "non-political" reflections on 9/11 last night :rolleyes:

But instead post this question.

If Iraq really is the "central front on the War on Terror", that our strategy is to "fight them there so we don't have to fight them here", that the War on Terror does indeed "represent the primary idiological struggle of the 21st century", that "this is World War III" etc...

...then why did they execute the war on the cheap and fail to plan for the post Saddam insurgency most experts predicted?

I'm really at a loss as to how people can brush this off as a few mistakes when the price of failure was clear at the start.

Please discuss...

-spence

Kinda sound like what Kerry was telling America...

All Kerry told America was that he fought in Vietnam and that he had a plan. Whether or not he actually had a plan is debateable, but he was not able to convince most Americans that he had one. Now it seems that the democrat party wants nothing to do with him.

And I don't know what failure you are talking about? There is going to be a fight, no matter what. In the past 5 years the administration has managed to keep the fight elsewhere. Last month they were able to stop a plot to hijack and destroy 10 international flights into America. That is a sucess in my mind. Funny how that victory is quickly forgotten (because the media downplays it).

I think the point that post Saddam Iraq planning was deficient has become almost moot at this time as has the original justification for the Iraq war. The focus now must be on the current situation on all fronts of the Terror War. Whether Iraq is the central front of this war on Terror is debateable put it is certainly a front of the war. Monday morning quarterbacking takes away from that focus and is detrimental to Americas security. If we cannot replicate the focus and unity this country displayed in WWII our chances of defeating this proven enemy are small.

I thought that was a British thing?

Yes they were arrested over there, but the focus of the attack was the United States with US carriers. US intelligence had a hand in the operation.

The success was not because of compromise, diplomacy or understanding why our enemy hates us.

So if we're winning... When will the war end?

We need to be prepared to fight this war for a very long time.

Never... this will be the Mother of all long hauls but we have no choice now do we.

it is no sweat
 

read about the "with my family looking iraqi husband ", with his beard all shaved off who said... "he drives around with his family to not get caught or shot...
so he can be out planting i .e .d.'s and he's always home for dinner!"
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.......thinking about that ...is why the war cannot be fought on their terms........We have more than adequate firepower and military strength
to defeat the enemy times ten....or twenty...but when they are intermingled with the general population of so-called civilians then it becomes just a con game.... of who's who....

this means that wives and children are participating also whether coherced or volentary ...........nobody knows....

with that strategy: on their own turf, they have the supreme advantage which we shouldn't be giving to them...:hs:

when we do finally leave Iraq , everyone ...men, woman and children will be jumping up and down celebrating....like on day 1 when sadamn's statue got pulled down..

I like to think that since 2001, there have been no acts of terrorism in the US. Can we agree to that? I almost have no choice but to believe that our government is doing all it can to protect this country and I do feel safe. Then again, when I am in the woods riding my dirtbike and snowmobile in circles with other like-minded grown men, I am still on the lookout for any terrorists and still feel safe. Likewise when I'm on the water, I'm always looking out and still feel safe.

I have to believe that there are people out there, like in the movies, who are making sure that no bad elements are entering the US.

I also have to look at it this way. There could be those who come to the US with the intention of doing harm to its people. It could be that the spend some time in the country, whether they visit the city or the country, they might see that they are able to walk freely in the streets and for the most part, do not have to worry one single bit about anyone doing them harm. They might see kids of all ages, all races, ethnicities, all going to school together, playing together and think 'This country is not so bad after all.', and abandon their ideas of doing harm to the citizens of the USA. I have to believe this, I have no choice.

I thought it was almost all British and the plan was to detonate over the water?

Who said they failed to plan for the post Saddam insurgency other than us. Maybe they knew all along what was going to occur, that is: all the other nations sending thier people to fight us in the streets of Bagdad that hate us. They will run our of dopes who think they will get 72 virgins in heaven eventually. We have to remember that Saddam let 100,000 people out of prison before we arrived in Bagdad and it has been said that most of those were people who IQ was under 70. Where do you think they are?

The plan was to detonate over major US cities. British and US Intell had a huge part in stopping this. And i even heard secret wire tapping was involved! Oh my god not that!:smash:

You just can't give the US intell any credit can you?

Anyone who thinks the US is no safer since the 9/11 attacks five years ago is in denial. We have taken out and captured MANY senior Al-Queada members in the last five years, and stopped many terroists plots. Yet we are not safer?? I credit the Government big time for this. Wether you support or hate Bush with a passion, you can't deny he has taken the fight to the terroists, and captured and killed god knows how many Al-Queada members. The goverment is doing thier job in protecting America, and taking the fight to the terroists, the fight they %$%$%$%$ing started i might add!

I'm sick of all the Monday morning quarterbacks. Do you know how many plans got %$%$%$%$ed up in WWII?? More than anyone can count i'm afraid. Remember Operation Market Garden? A total %$%$%$%$ up in Intell, and it turned into a bloody defeat for the allies in Holland. Intell said the germans in the area were mostly old men and boys, turned out to be hard core SS troops. Nothing in war goes perfect, thier will be %$%$%$%$ ups. It sucks, but it's reallity.

Even Spence, Mr. Perfect, couldn't come up with a perfect plan. It just doesnt happpen! You have to asses the situation on the ground as it is NOW. And go from there. This coulda, woulda, shoulda, is really getting old and tiring.

Skip...as usual :love: ..... " I can never give US Intel any credit".... where do you get that from my brief post? You just make up stuff and whip it out there.

The discovery of the plan and dealing with it was largely British and US Intel was called on it.... I missed the detonating over US city thing.


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We are creating more terrorists by our war with Iraq. Not that they don`t have some terrorists but are not most of the current leading terrorists from Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, and Palestine.... not to mention all the other countries with Muslim terrorists at the helm or working on it.Or the non Muslim countries with terrorists.

If we said we needed to build military bases in Iraq to further our interests in that region and we hoped to get a bunch of oil for $7 dollars less a barrel than the larger market charges our war there would be more open and honest.


I look forward to your interpretation of my thoughts as always :) .

The spin doctor's on W's team must be getting hard up for new material.

A little help for the rehistorians here
 

Agent infiltrated terror cell, U.S. says

Air travel in chaos after plot to bomb airliners exposed


Friday, August 11, 2006; Posted: 3:33 p.m. EDT (19:33 GMT)

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var cnnStoryUrl = 'http://robots.cnn.com/2006/US/08/10/us.security/index.html';var cnnDisplayDomesticCL = 1; var cnnDisplayIntlCL = 1;



SPECIAL REPORT


http://i.cnn.net/cnn/SPECIALS/2006/f...ft.include.jpg




WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Terrorists were in the "final stages" of a plot to simultaneously blow up as many as 10 jets leaving Britain for the U.S., sending the planes and thousands of passengers into the Atlantic Ocean, U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said Thursday.
British and Pakistani authorities teamed up to thwart the attacks, and 24 men were arrested in overnight raids in Britain, authorities said.
An undercover British agent infiltrated the group, giving the authorities intelligence on the alleged plan, several U.S. government officials said.

Why bother? it's the same BS you spew all the time. If we use your logic for the war on terror, the US can never take the fight to the enemy overseas, after all, if we go after the enemy in a middle eastern country, we will only cause anger and and create more terroists right? So i guess the US must sit around and do nothing so we don't cause more poeple to hate us? Actually we tried that before, we tried ignoring the threat of terroism, and guess what happend? 3000 americans we're slaughtered in cold blood 5 years ago yesterday. And now people like you imply we can't go after the terroists, because it might casue more people to hate us? You havent learned a damn thing about terroism after 9/11.

Dude, thats some crazy ass thinking! Using your logic, we can't go anywhere to fight the radical muslims who want to do us harm!

Thank god someone like you will NEVER be in the White House running the show.

How did the democrats wind up in Sadam's prison?:rude:

Skip.... you don`t make any sense and your crazy... where do you get your information? I love how you twist everyones comments to some wacked out version of a reply :claps: .

Yeah i'm crazy alright, if understanding that radical Islam needs to be fought and defeated, then yes, I guess i am crazy.

Are you French by any chance?

:rotfl:

I really, really try to stay out of these things but.....Skip, I agree 100% with your above statement. The "we cause more terrorists by attacking them" theory does not work for me. My issue is that mistakes were made but.....did we learn from them? Mistakes were made in every war, but look at how many times generals were shullfed around? I cant justify that Rumsfeld is still in his position. we have made NO progress in a few years other than Zarqawi (sp??) and a few high priortiy hits. Lets get some new thinking and strategy in there.

I guess it depends on where you get the news from.

Here is an excerpt from the BBC that quotes Tony Blair. While it doesn't say where the planes were to be detonated, it does say that the US intelligence was involved.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4778575.stm

Just wondering.........but does anyone actually believe that we should cease violent action against Terrorism?

Every report I heard on the matter shared credit with US, British, and Pakistani intelligence.

1. I never said US Intel was`nt involved.....I did say it was mainly British ......but the US was called in on the side to assist.

2. Did we go to war with Iraq because there were terrorists there?

3. People fighting back are now terrorists? With this reasoning we are terrorists.

4. I think we should fight and destroy real terrorists who attack us or espouse the agenda that we should be killed.... which will keep us more than busy forever.

:hihi: Thank you for supporting my statement.

You're welcome! I'm proud to be called "crazy" if being crazy means going after Terrorists.:)