Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating - Menhaden Bill

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Menhaden Bill - Commentary

I was asked to write up information on the Menhaden Bills in the RI House & Senate and give an overview on the issue. The following is part my opinion and part my understanding of some of the facts. To go through all of the facts (and all of my opinion) would take considerable more Ones and Zeros :hihi: But I do want to get your comments on its honesty and accuracy - Thanks! John

Quote:

I'm going to give you a short (OK, it started out short), and I feel honest, summary of the pros and cons of the Menhaden Legislations going on at the state level.

Basics:

Menhaden: Atlantic Menhaden (a/k/a Bunker, Pogies) are algae eating fish that are found from Florida to Nova Scotia and are likely the most important bait / forage fish of ALL species in the western Atlantic. These fish are fatty, high in protein and very high in Omega 3. They provide perhaps the best natural diet for all sorts of fish species from Striped Bass, Bluefish, Fluke, Tautog, Tuna, Swords, Flounder, and most anything else more than a foot long that swims, as well as crabs, and lobster. Menhaden is probably the single most important fish in the Atlantic Food Cycle – both to fish and as a result to humans.

I have never directly eaten Menhaden as all reports are that it is absolutely horrible to eat. However, if you have eaten any local seafood you have probably eaten a fish that fed on Menhaden somewhere along the way.

Menhaden is also a significantly sought after commercial fish with a massive industry, mostly run by one company, Omega Protein in Texas. The caught fish is often processed and reduced to be used for everything from cat food, to Omega 3 supplements, to fertilizer. It is also considered on a coastwide basis to be overfished – though this is often debated by the commercial fishery interests.

Here is a great article that does far more justice than I ever could:

http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~hbf/menhaden.htm

Menhaden in Narragansett Bay: Menhaden in the bay is such a tiny miniscule fraction of the entire biomass of the Menhaden stocks that eliminating every fish from the bay will have no significant impact on a coastwide basis. Saving the menhaden or removing them will have no impact on the large scale. Menhaden were so plentiful decades ago that they were routinely found in proportionally massive schools in waters well into the state of Maine. I know a few old timers that repeatedly stated how bountiful these fish were in Maine but that is now well in the past. I know many old salt Rhode Islanders that have stated how much menhaden were available in years past. The last 2 years have seen an uptick in the availability of these fish in our local waters, possibly due to reductions in commercial menhaden fishery pressures in other states, but any increase we have are being fished by Ark Bait.

At the local level, menhaden have a tremendous benefit to the bay. Menhaden feed local fish stocks, considerably, and between adult Menhaden and juvenile Menhaden – often called Peanut Bunker – they are probably the most important forage fish in Narragansett Bay. They are also a favorite for anglers to go run around the bay, find a dozen or two, and use them as bait in the pursuit of other gamefish. In my opinion, the most important and often overlooked aspect of the Menhaden is that they are what is called “Filter Feeders”. What this means is that these large schools of Menhaden, swimming around in the Bay, filter pollution and nutrients (like processed and unprocessed sewage and fertilizer runoff) from the water column. The fish are reported to filter 2.5-4 gallons of water per minute. These fish can play a significant roll in the cleaning of the bay. Currently, the bay water is polluted with septic and sewage runoff, lawn fertilizers, all sorts of nutrient runoffs that create these algae blooms and can create “dead zones” of de-oxygenated water. These dead zones lead to fish kills, shellfish kills (shellfish like quahogs filter out the bottom portions of the water column), and general poor water quality of hypoxia and high nutrient loading of the bay. Menhaden feed on the phytoplankton and detritus of our Bay.

When Ark Bait is seining the fish in the 2-5 weeks they typically spend in the Bay, they are removing significant portions of the available adult menhaden from the bay and advantages the bay the benefits they could provide. Ark Bait uses a spotter plane to fly around the bay to find any concentrated schools of Menhaden and then the vessel goes and nets up everything it can scoop. The net is hauled and the fish are stored. Then they go on to the next set – spotter plane finds the fish, vessel scoops them up. I am not an expert on the Purse Seine fishery and methods but I believe they can do up to 3 sets and hauls in a day. They essentially take and appreciable school of adult menhaden in the Bay that they can reach in navigable waters. Some of the fish schools make it into areas to tightly confined or to shallow to be feasibly harvested. The significant portion of catchable fish is seined.

The Fishers:

Recreational fisherman and women use menhaden as bait to catch striped bass and bluefish. Most of this bait is purchased from local bait shops (the majority of which support a ban on the seining of Menhaden). Some recreational anglers with boats search out and snag their own bait and some will go to the Ark Bait vessel where they will be given some caught menhaden by Ark Bait. Ark Bait then takes advantage of this opportunity to photograph the smiling angler for future display on how they are such great stewards of recreational anglers (OK, I’ll admit to some sarcasm here on this tactic). The direct impact of all of the recreational anglers on local menhaden stocks – before or after any potential seining ban - are miniscule, tiny in comparison to Ark Bait.

Commercial Lobsterman – in Rhode Island and other New England states - do use menhaden caught by Ark Bait as one of the baits to fill their traps. Though Ark Bait is only in the bay until it is no longer economically feasible to take menhaden, they do provide part of the bait source while they are here. However, ark bait is not the sole supplier of bait for lobster boat operations. They are one supply out of many. I believe that most of the menhaden used in RI, whether for recreational anglers or lobsterman, over the course of the year come from boats in the Mid-Atlantic states. In fact, Ark Bait, after removing what they can in a few weeks in Narragansett Bay, spends most of its time seining for Menhaden in the waters off of the Mid-Atlantic states. Commercial Lobsterman could in fact benefit from healthier stocks of menhaden in the bay as other species like, Striped Bass, would have better forage to eat than the lobsters and fluke we as anglers often find in their stomachs due to the lack of prevalent forage in the bay.

The Benefits:

If a healthy population of adult Menhaden were to spend a sizeable amount of time in the bay due to lack of commercial fishing pressure by this Massachusetts company the bay should reap several rewards.

Healthier fish of existing stops of Striped Bass for example because their best food source will be more available. As stated previously, the striped bass may eat less lobster than they do now if provided a better alternative (menhaden is considered more of a striped bass favorite than lobster and other shellfish). This is good for the bass and good for the anglers that pursue them. Please keep in mind that the economic value of Recreational Fishing in Rhode Island may even EXCEED the economic value of commercial fishing in our state http://www.risaa.org/EconomicStudy07.pdf . The economic value of Striped Bass fishing alone in RI significantly outweighs the benefit to RI from Ark Bait (a Massachusetts company).

Probably most important, a CLEANER Narragansett Bay should result with a healthy population of Menhaden. Again, and I cannot stress this enough, these fish provide a significant, natural cleaning agent into the bay, one that we would be simply mistaken to ignore.

The Cons:

Ark Bait, from Swansea Massachusetts, will need to spend a few extra weeks in the waters they fish once the local Rhode Island supply of Menhaden has been exhausted.

Rhode Island Commercial Lobstermen will not have the temporary, local source of Menhaden that they do for the time the supply from Ark Bait is taken locally.

The Legislation:

There is legislation co-sponsored by several lawmakers to ban the commercial purse-seining of adult Menhaden (a/k/a Bunker, Pogies) in Narragansett Bay.

House 5165 - Introduced By: Representatives Gallison, Kilmartin, Palumbo, Ginaitt, and Gablinske Date Introduced: January 24, 2007
Senate S0311 - Introduced By: Senators Lenihan, and Sheehan Date Introduced: February 07, 2007
http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/BillTex...xt07/S0311.pdf
http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/billtex...xt07/h5165.htm -
Both state: 20-4.1-2.1. Purse seining prohibited. – It shall be illegal to harvest menhaden by use of purse seine in the Menhaden Management Area.

My personal opinion:

The benefits to Narragansett Bay of banning the commercial Purse Seining take of menhaden so significantly outweighs the temporary impact on one Massachusetts company and the very limited impact on the lobster boats that use menhaden as bait. What many people do not realize is that the amount of time Ark Bait spends in the bay is minimal compared to the exhaustion of the local stock that occurs. Ark Bait still needs to spend the vast majority of its season in other states’ waters and is just one of many boats when in those waters. When the local supply of local menhaden is exhausted in the few weeks the Ark Bait boat is in the Bay, most end users of this bait – local bait & tackle shops and the lobster boats – must get bait shipped from other parts of the east coast.

I am not a commercial lobsterman but in years past I have gone and assisted a friend in his work. I have met a few commercial lobstermen and I know and respect them. It is a profession of great, hard working people that I support. I do not feel that the limited impact on lobster boats – reduced local supply of bait for a shorter period of time – comes close to the tremendous benefits associated with leaving Adult Menhaden to roam the bay with no heavy commercial pressure.

Again, I feel that the benefits of closing this type of fishery significantly outweigh the negative impact this may have on Ark Bait.

souds good john. Has anyone mentioned the benifits to the lobster population if there was more menhaden to scavange??

A few qubbles. Menhaden eat photoplankton, they do not eat detrius, they also do not eat the type of algae that causes localized hypoxia as a result of the die off of an algae bloom.

Major quibble: All of this debate seems to assume that if ark bait is kicked out of the bay, there will be no commercial fishing for menhaden. I do not believe that is realistic. If there is a market for these fish it will be met, most likely by gillnetters, who collectively will take just as many fish as ark bait does, but the price for lobstermen will be higher due to more effort being expended to catch the fish. Another side detriment is that the gillnetters will close off much more of the bay to recreational fishermen than ark bait does. This will happen because the gillnets will bet set all over the bay, and they won't be removed, like the purse seine, after the fish are loaded into the boat(s). So you will have large areas of the bay which are unfishable by recreational anglers due to the gill nets.

IMHO, if this is a good idea (and I'm not taking a position on it one way or the other) it should have been written to prohibit all commercial fishing for menhaden in the bay. I don't fish the bay, so I really don't have a dog in this fight.

John,
One other huge hole in the whole debate is the fact that there are still millions upon millions of menhaden in the bay after Ark is done fishing for them. In August and September you can practically walk on juvenile pogies from Warwick to Bristol to Tiverton. These menhaden still perform the same cleansing function of large pogies. Many supporters of these bills make it appear like Narragansett Bay is a "Pogy Wasteland" once Ark leaves. Quite the contrary - probably more "pounds" of menhaden in the bay in August/Sept than anytime in the spring.

DZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakoMike (Post 482995)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DZ (Post 483007)

Hi Denis - I was hoping you would respond as I wanted to see your opinion on this.

I see your point but the whole argument in the Menhaden Bill is that seining of Adult Menhaden. Juvies are imaterial in this bill - as they are immaterial to Ark Bait or anyone else. The juvies ebb and flow like the adult menhaden - I see this in my neck of the woods when I look - frequently (though that is far from scientific ;) )

Not a Pogie Wasteland but the adult ones that make it are often in places not navigable by the pogie boat. The fact that some of these surving fish are way up in some of the rivers and shallow water bays that are not accessible to the Pogie Boat. Could they do more good running all over the place?
Thanks guys - keep the comments coming :btu:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnR (Post 483012)

Mike - I don't think that cast nets will remove the same amount as the Purse Sein - I am also personally not against commercial fishing for menhaden but just the more damaging gear types. Kind of like Street Sweeper gear for ground fish - far bigger problem that needed to be done away with as opposed to less intrusive methods of ground fishing.

Hi Denis - I was hoping you would respond as I wanted to see your opinion on this.

I see your point but the whole argument in the Menhaden Bill is that seining of Adult Menhaden. Juvies are imaterial in this bill - as they are immaterial to Ark Bait or anyone else. The juvies ebb and flow like the adult menhaden - I see this in my neck of the woods when I look - frequently (though that is far from scientific ;) )

Not a Pogie Wasteland but the adult ones that make it are often in places not navigable by the pogie boat. The fact that some of these surving fish are way up in some of the rivers and shallow water bays that are not accessible to the Pogie Boat. Could they do more good running all over the place?
Thanks guys - keep the comments coming :btu:

John,
I know they are immaterial as far as being sought by Ark. But they are not immaterial when one of the scientific reasons being used to prevent seining is that all the seined pogies are cleaning up the bay and therefore should not be seined because once they're seined the bay doesn't have anymore. The bills backers conveniently left out the fact that there are still plenty of pogies in the bay cleaning the water. It's always good to leave out info if it doesn't support your argument and that is exactly what happened.
DZ

John,
It isn't the cast nets that I'm worried about, it'e the GILL NETS, that will, IMHO replace the single purse seine. I think there will litterally be hundreds of them out there, not only catching the pogies, but also cutting off access to fishing spots, you can't fish an area if its loaded with gill nets. I know guys who hold a RI principal effort license with a gill net endorsement and if they have access to a small boat, I would expect them be out there setting nets in all the places the recreational guys want to fish.

Part of an earlier post that got buried:
My take on it.
A cleaned up version was sent to the Environmental committee members of the house.

I am against it for some of the reasons below. I have said ALL ALONG I think
that it is a warm-fuzzy feeling for most people, and on the surface it is.
Yeah more forage fish, cleaner bay yippee!!! IF I thought that ANY of the
goals mentioned by RISAA were realistic I may be the first to sign, but..

I also think the way the ban is being sought is unjust/unfair/unfounded

Am I anti-ban? Yup. Propose it to ASMFC or RIMFC and see what happens. RISAA
probably knew it wouldn't make it through this process so they tried to jump
that step.

It completely circumvents the fisheries management process that utilizes the
people who are trained and background to help make decisions
(scientists/fisheries managers) and the councils set-up to manage our
fisheries. This would be completely opposed if they went after any other
species in this manner. Look at what happened with peoples opinion of the eel
situation last year. If you don't like the process get involved, but it's
the one we have right now.

What if Save The bay or Peta came in and said no more striped bass fishing?
Or cod, or fluke, or sea-bass or whatever. What if they claimed it would
help the water quality in the bay, no more fish kills etc. What if PETA or
STB or anyone else didn't have the science to back up these claims? We would
be so in an uproar that it wouldn't be comprehendable.

This is not that different than the menhaden bill. Save the Bay, while a
great educational group doesn't do a lot of science, yet when they partner
with RISAA and put themselves in the paper/press it lends a unfounded
credibility of science to it. Then, when a trained fisheries scientist who
has been doing this a long time publishes a report with numerous good
sources published in scientific literature that opposes this view, people
who have been so one sided on the RISAA/STB side that they immediately
assume it was wrong doing or bad science.

That is my main problem with it. People assume good science is behind it yet
it is based on hearsay and conjecture and warm fuzzy memories. The Bay HAS
CHANGED in the last two decades. It is cleaner, with less nutrients that
feed these schools, and I have it straight from one of the most respected
Ecologists in the country who is at URI that the impacts of large schools of
Menhaden may actually impede some of our other species, and the same
conclusions reached by a separate biologist at DEM.

Last, one of the biggest issues I have is that when you have large schools
of pogies in the bay you will have lots of big dead healthy bass. It is a
LOT easier to catch bass on these schools, which is why I think RISAA is
such a big supporter. People who cant catch their ass with both hands can
snag and drop. Then they boat the 2 bass they probably wouldn't have caught
now have dead bass in their boat/truck repeat the next day/week whatever.
Not everyone keeps fish of course, but you hopefully see my point. The last
time we had larger stocks of pogies was just before the moratorium,
coincidence? probably, maybe, maybe not. Obviously management and commercial
practices have changed since then, but the number of people fishing has
probably increased. This would probably increase the pressure on our beloved
bass. Look at what happens on the winter grounds. We get all upset that they
are killing all these huge bass that are tightly schooled on bait fattening
up before they spawn. Do you think narragansett bay will be different. All
the increased economic benefit being touted from added angler pressure in
rhode island adds up to more dead bass! Do you think all the 'tourists' will
be C&R fisherman

Pogies is one of the many issues on our bay/waters. If you really think that
fixing it fixes the bay and all the scientists will be out of work, then you
need to look hard at the issues. Winter flounder, herring, etc and yes fish
kills.

I am a geologist by training, but I took the time to find out as much about
these issues, not in the Slo-jo or in press releases. I read both sides
points and grasped as much of the science behind it as I had the time/brain
cells I could spare to it. I have made my opinion and you have yours. I
sleep well knowing I did everything that I could to understand all sides of
the issues before I made my decisions. I'm sure you did the same. I don't
disrespect anyone who supports the bill.

I don't respect the way the issue has started w/ this Bill and the sides
involved and the motives involved with RISAA. This has been an ongoing issue
for 35 years, and we won a HUGE battle getting reduction out of our waters.

Just a few comments

IMO ..

Ark bait /is in the fishing business // the closer to home the less expense ;;

once they leave /the lobster boats & anyone else can & do purchase bait from ARK bait ;;;

DZ
said there are more pogies in the bay in JULY & AUGUST .>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess i,ve been missing something for 40 years ......... I havn,t ever seen that >>>>> & I was under the assumption that they went offshore to spawn in the summer ;;; & if there are sooooooooooooo many pogies in the summer ........ why can,t we find them & why would ARK bait leave RI ????????

they are fisherman & work very hard at it // I know they have by-catch / but is nothing compared to what a dragger kills & shovels overboard in a given day >>>>>>>> talk a bout a waste & killing in giant proportion / BUt again /its there lively hood & alot of times what they are discarding are eatable fish /but because of quota,s & opening & closing of seasons on different species // they [HAVE to discard those fish .......... there not happy they have to throw many back in the sea ;; & the way a trawler works / once the net is brought on board & the catch is released on the deck / the majority of the stocks is dead // only the strongest of fish usually make it out alive IE >>> lobsters, tautog . some flounder // for the most part /the soft fish is history >>> F #$%^&* I,m way off base ;;

I personally wouldn,t want to be told I can no longer make part of my living /unless there is proof /that I actually affect some postive things in the bay >>> quality of fishing /quality of the water ;;

what I would like to see /is a more controlled or agreed upon area of Pogie fishing ;;

John stated that /the pogies are safe only in certain area,s // not true // like any fisheman that is making a living .. they go where the fish are ......... Being on th ewater for too many years I can appreciate A/B being pissed /
I remember when Jerry was netting in a penn yarn [sp] they have paid there dues ;;
Just come to some kind of agreement that gives some of the pogies a chance // example can,t go in to shallow water // or small protective coves // Potters Cove is a hotspot / inside up tight in Bristol harbor / & so on // iF there really are that many pogies in the bay // that shouldn,t be a problem ;;;

ya gotta comprise /think about it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
&&&&&&&&&&& ya gotta remember that if they did ban ARK bait // then there would be fisherman that would be pissed / because they are clueless on how to find & catch pogies >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they only fish when they get their bait from ARK Bait ..........
life is a one way street & we all should have a right to drive down it// as long as it doesn,t hurt someone else ;;

GOT EELS :lurk:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clammer (Post 483280)

Clammer,
Read my first post slooowly. I said "more pogies in the bay in August and September" and I'm talking about the massive clouds of peanuts that cover the upper bay during that time period. I'm sure you must have seen them when your favorite bluefish spit them up ;) Big pogies have almost always left the upper bay by July. In the old days during mid summer they would settle into Newport Harbor, Jamestown Harbor, Dutch Island Harbor areas where the water was somewhat cooler.

DZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clammer (Post 483280)

3:32 AM posting???? Your nuts.........:smash:

And then I read two newspapers >>>>... that why all my phones are off >>just took my meds >> that S/B good for 4 - 5 hours crach time <><><

OK - we have a few people with arguments against this - any for?

member suggested not using the vacum cleaner thing on the boat. That eliminating it would help reduce the take. I don't know but I am with the Clam Dog on this one. There has got to be a compromise somewhere. How does that vacum thing work anyway?