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I don't understand

Day before yesterday was fishing a strech of beach where there are three plover nests in the wire shelters. I couldn't help but notice that one of the nests with four eggs was about to get washed out by the rising tide it. Spoke with a friend who lives pretty close to the location about it, he told me that audobon had been down there checking things out and knew the nest was in danger of being lost. How come they didn't take the eggs and put them in an incubator? Is this also against the law? Just seemed like such a shame:huh: :huh:

They're probably nervous about hatching and raising the chicks in an artificial environment, where they get imprinted on humans and artificial feeding. They may have to learn naturally, in order to eventually survive in a natural environment. Might be better to risk the tides.

ahhh , but you see it's not about the birds !!!
it's about control of the beach and getting all the fisherpeople off of it .
face it , if the plover was off the 'endangered ' list what excuse would there be to shut the beaches down ???
have you heard that it is ok for the govt to kill 200 birds ??

Quote:

Army corps kills birds protected by federal law
Engineers raise water levels for towboats, causing sandbars with nesting animals to be inundated

By Bill Lambrecht
St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Contra Costa Times

Article Launched:07/12/2007 03:02:43 AM PDT

WASHINGTON -- Even as the government spends $45 million this year to restore federally protected birds along the Missouri River, the Army Corps of Engineers is killing some of them by raising water levels to allow a single towboat to proceed upriver.
Federal biologists warned in recent meetings that 200 chicks and eggs of endangered piping plovers and threatened least terns could perish in rising water the corps is releasing to permit a towboat to reach Blair, Neb., this week to retrieve four barge loads of alfalfa pellets.

With the towboat MV Omaha proceeding upriver Tuesday to pick up the pellets, the corps acknowledged that at least 19 eggs had been lost. That number could increase as more water is released from Gavins Point Dam in South Dakota to provide sufficient water for the towboat's navigation.

The bird mortality -- referred to under the Endangered Species Act agreements as "incidental take" -- underscores the trade-offs the government is making while attempting to preserve species along the Missouri and still allow for barge traffic.

"The highway is there and people can use the highway," said corps spokesman Paul Johnston, noting the corps' congressionally ordered mandate to maintain conditions for Missouri River barge traffic.

Johnston added that Army engineers have been working to balance competing interests on the river and move nests and chicks to safety when possible.

Few barges have operated so far upriver recently because of water shortages from severe drought. The corps has shortened the Missouri's navigation season every year since 2003; this year's barge season was cut by 35 days, ending in late October.

Despite its expensive program to build sandbars for terns and plovers, the corps accommodated Consolidated Blenders Inc. when the Nebraska company asked for higher water to move alfalfa pellets down the Missouri during nesting season. In recent days the corps increased the flow of water from Gavins Point Dam by about 3,000 cubic feet per second.

That translated to water rising 4 or 5 inches upriver -- enough in some spots to inundate sandbars where the birds are nesting.

The 5,000 tons of concentrated alfalfa will be shipped to the Mississippi River en route to Arkansas, where it will provide food for horses, rabbits, goats and sheep, said company President Mike Olson.

"That river is really important to our company, and we just feel like our future is tied to it," said Olson.

Olson said his company has not shipped on the Missouri for several years but hopes to load more barges with alfalfa pellets before the close of this navigation season. He added that shipping by railroad was inconvenient because of loading and that he was unable to wait until the birds were no longer nesting because his company had run out of storage space.

The Endangered Species Act forbids a federal agency from harming a federally protected species. Least terns are classified as endangered; piping plovers carry the federal designation of "threatened."

Another Mike Olson, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service's Missouri River coordinator, said the corps has legal protections for its decision as a result of an agreement with the fish and wildlife agency that allows the killing of about 340 birds, a level of "incidental take" the corps has not reached.

"That's why they're out there spending millions of dollars to build this high-elevation sandbar habitat, to keep the incidental take a minimum," Olson said. "But there are still birds nesting at low-elevation sandbars that become inundated."

Chad Smith, the Missouri River expert for the advocacy group American Rivers, said that people with a stake in river management need to devote more thought to preventing mortality of protected species.

"Right now, it's too easy to turn on the spigot and not be thinking about the consequences. We spend all this time and money on the river to get these species recovered, but in one fell swoop we set ourselves back," he said.
___

just my 2cents ...
derf

Derf's got it. If they were successful doing it they wouldn't have a reason to keep us off of the beach, although I'd bet they would come up with a new one right quick.

yea it pisses me off that they blocked off a lot of the private beach that i go to for piping plovers... but all i ever see is just tons of sea gulls and trash in the blocked off area

it's funny, down in North Carolina if a nest is near a beach opening blocking trucks path, they just move the damn nest. I like their mentality, wish it were the same up here but we are outnumbered and they have more money and clout, some people just suck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slipknot (Post 507492)

sorry slip , but they don't move plover nests ..
they will move a turtle nest , depending on which national park . CHNS doesn't
CALO will ..
remember a couple of years ago when they shut down the 'point' ......
derf

well they used to , I guess the anti's got to them too

Red, .... there's a seal with a head the size of a Motorcycle helmet out in your waters....scared the @#$@ beJeezus out of me. All it needs are tusks and it'd be a freekin Walrus.
That's definately keeping the fish offshore in the deeper holes,,, kilin' the surf-fishing.

Surf fishing has been all about exercise lately. :walk: :walk:

Solution: Feed the eggs to the seal, feed the seal to the shark and enter the shark in the Tournament. The perfect loop.

some pics;
nothing like a barricade ; and how pissed do you think these people were !!

Quote:

Originally Posted by derf (Post 507376)

face it , if the plover was off the 'endangered ' list what excuse would there be to shut the beaches down ???

just my 2cents ...
derf

What excuse? I bet it won't take them long to find one for sure :( , but we should get the funding stopped that keeps the plover on the list so some other species can enjoy that title for a while.
It's worth a try.

Do you have a better understanding now Bob?

Quote:

What excuse? I bet it won't take them long to find one for sure

got that right . they already have a few lined up to take their place down there .... they have closed the beach this year for the American Oystercatcher; that was in april of this year . they are back trying to get the area designated "Wintering Piping Plover Critical Habitat”
....plus theses are in the wings just waiting for a reason to be used (copied from the "Interim Protected Species Management Strategy"

Quote:

The Seashore is required by Section 7 of the Endangered Species Act (ESA) to consult with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service on actions that may affect Threatened and Endangered species. Six species protected under the ESA are found on park lands including the Piping Plover, Loggerhead Sea Turtle, Green Sea Turtle, Leatherback Sea Turtle, Hawksbill Sea Turtle, and one plant, the Seabeach Amaranth. See "Links" section for more information on these species. Other species are protected under other laws and Executive Orders, including the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, and NPS regulations. This Interim Strategy will serve as a basis for initiating consultation with the Fish and Wildlife Service. See the "Links" and "Documents" sections for more information on these laws and regulations.

thanks derf, I guess:uhoh:

what kills me is the gov. allows destruction of wetlands or took so long to slow that yet they constantly feel offroad driving on sandy beaches does harm to the enviroment:mad: :realmad: wtf? Wetlands are way more important, without them pollution just gets worse :hs: I don't get it, people have their priorities whacked.

I belong to the Rainforest action network but I would never think of donating anything to the audobaun groups

What group out there is gonna look out for us the people?:bsod:

well there's always fresh water fishing:rollem:

Quote:

thanks derf, I guess

yea that the way i feel sometimes ..
just like shoveling sand against the tide ...

Quote:

What group out there is gonna look out for us the people?

well , i don't / can't keep up with what is going on up there ....
but i do try the best i can to keep up with what is going on down at hatteras ..
down there the it's the NCBBA , OBPA ,CHPA, CHAC ,the tackle shops fighting for their livelihood, and a lot of the 'locals'. the internet has become a major weapon in the fight there ...
at Assateague national park (in Md) it is the AMSA .
almost all of the 'buggy' clubs belong to and support the UMS ..
the battle is on the whole coast .....it seems we win one battle and another one pops up .
my time is limited , so are my funds , but it seems there is always someone you can e-mail to express your opinions :)
ps i hate freshwater for fishin'.....just ain't the same
derf

I was being facetious
I mean us the human beings people

I hope your beaches stay open as much as possible

Quote:

Originally Posted by bloocrab (Post 507510)

Surf fishing has been all about exercise lately. :walk: :walk:

That and a test of endurance to see how long one is willing to fish to beat a skunk. Took me three and a half hours before i finally got a bump and caught something

If nobody was around couldn't you just kick it into the water and laugh under your breath as it floats away.I hate them pesky plovers.Wish they were more like dinosaurs.Completely extinct.