Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating - banning lead sinkers at ccns beaches?

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banning lead sinkers at ccns beaches?

does anybody have any more info?

is the cold war w/ the park service/fed gov over?

is this a shooting war yet?

Say it ain't so. That will put a hamper on my kayasting from shore.

you could always use beach bricks as weights, Mikey -

Matt, headed to Truro to open the cottage this weekend. I'll try to swing by the station and see what they say, but it sounds like a done deal. It gives the powers that be justification for a new position (Lead Detective) fancy new lead detection gear and search and seizure powers.

Oh, and I don't think it is just CCNS, probably the entire park system.

read it and weep !!

For Immediate Release:

March 10, 2009
Contact(s): David Barna, 202-208-6843

Bert Frost, 202-208-3884

National Park Service Gets the Lead Out!
WASHINGTON – National Park Service visitors and wildlife have something to cheer about today with the agency’s stepped-up efforts to reduce lead in national park environments.
“Our goal is to eliminate the use of lead ammunition and lead fishing tackle in parks by the end of 2010,” said Acting National Park Service Director Dan Wenk. “We want to take a leadership role in removing lead from the environment.”
The new lead reduction efforts also include changes in NPS activities, such as culling operations or the dispatching of wounded or sick animals. Rangers and resource managers will use non-lead ammunition to prevent environmental contamination as well as lead poisoning of scavenger species who may eventually feed upon the carcass. Non-toxic substitutes for lead made in the United States are now widely available including tungsten, copper, and steel.
The NPS will also develop educational materials to increase awareness about the consequences of lead exposure and the benefits of using lead-free ammunition and fishing tackle.
Lead is an environmental contaminant affecting many areas of the world, including our national parks. Lead is banned in gasoline, children’s toys, and paint because of its effects on human health. In the United States, there is an accelerating trend to expand efforts to reduce lead contamination associated with firearms and hunting. California and Arizona have recently implemented mandatory and voluntary bans, respectively, on lead ammunition to facilitate California condor recovery. And Yellowstone National Park has had restrictions on lead fishing tackle for years to protect native species and their habitats.
Resource managers recognize that hunting and fishing play an important historical role in the complicated and intensive management of wildlife populations. Because of this history, these activities continue in some parks and, in some cases, even enhance the park’s primary purpose to preserve natural environments and native species. The new restrictions on lead will ensure environmentally safe practices are implemented to protect park visitors and lands.
Wenk adds, “The reduction and eventual removal of lead on park service lands will benefit humans, wildlife, and ecosystems inside and outside park boundaries and continue our legacy of resource stewardship.”

[

Does it mean lead sinkers? Or does it mean lead in plugs and lures, terminal tackle etc. The sentiment is good, but I wonder where the line will be.

$h!ttT! First they take away my favorite snack,..lead paint chips, and now they want to stop me from eating lead sinkers!!Maybe I could switch to grilled plovers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimmy (Post 675649)

Does it mean lead sinkers? Or does it mean lead in plugs and lures, terminal tackle etc. The sentiment is good, but I wonder where the line will be.

from what i have read on the 'net' ; it means sinkers , lures , tackle etc .
a 'line ' needs to be established .
i can see the ban for freshwater ... but the ocean ???:bs:

I sent an email to the NE regional office to try and get some more info about the lead ban. I asked about larger weights and internal pluggage weight. I hope to get some answers to our concerns.

Well, there goes my investment in precious metals in the basement...:hs:

Just heard that the lead ban also extends to all sailboats that use lead for their keel.

DZ

Maybe I ought to look into investing in bismuth or antimony...:smokin:

can we switch to murcury?!?damn tree huggers:rocketem:

when will they ban PLASTIC monofilament and braided line ? Plastic pollutes also:bs:

from the island free press:

Quote:

Anglers, tackle shops, and fishing advocacy groups were surprised by The National Park Service announcement last week that it has “stepped up” efforts to reduce lead in the parks.

“Our goal is to eliminate the use of lead ammunition and lead fishing tackle in parks by the end of 2010,” said Acting National Park Service Director Dan Wenk in a media release. “We want to take a leadership role in removing lead from the environment.”

The announcement by NPS last week is not a rule and is not a ban on lead tackle and ammunition in the parks – at least not yet.

However, the media release from NPS in Washington, D.C., was headlined, “National Park Service Gets the Lead Out!” and called it a reason for visitors to the parks and for wildlife to celebrate.

The folks who were caught by surprise by this cheerful announcement were not amused – or celebrating.

The discussion of lead used in ammunition and fishing tackle is not new to most anglers and owners of businesses that sell tackle.

However, local anglers, tackle shop owners, and groups that represent sportfishermen were surprised by the suddenness and the timing of the announcement. Most knew nothing about it until the NPS media release went out on March 10.

And most were unhappy that stakeholders had not been invited to give their input.

In a March 13 media release, The American Sportfishing Association (ASA), along with a number of fish and wildlife management conservation groups, asked the National Park Service “to reconsider its ban on the use of fishing tackle made with lead components in national parks by 2010.”

“The sportfishing industry is surprised and dismayed by the March 10 announcement made by the National Park Service,” said ASA Vice President Gordon Robertson. “Their intention to eliminate the use of lead in fishing tackle in national parks was made without prior consultation of the sportfishing industry or the millions of recreational anglers who fish within the national park system.”

Robertson further said, “In his January 21, 2009, Executive Memo to federal agency and department heads, President Obama made it very clear that he expects the federal government to be transparent, participatory and collaborative and that ‘executive departments and agencies should offer Americans increased opportunities to participate in policymaking and to provide their Government with the benefits of their collective expertise and information.’ We expect the National Park Service to follow the President’s order.”

In the normal course of events, the release noted, the sportfishing and shooting sports industries (lead component ammunition is also included in the ban) would have been notified by the NPS about this change in policy and would have been invited to discuss this decision with NPS staff.

Robertson further explained, “The NPS policy announcement, issued by a press release, does not explain how this decision was reached, why it may be necessary or how this rule will be implemented. To our knowledge, there has been no proposed rule, nor any opportunity for public comment. We request that the NPS withdraw this proposal and discuss the rationale for it with the appropriate stakeholders before taking further action.”

Jody Lyle, a Park Service spokesman in Washington, D.C. commented about the reaction to the announcement in a phone interview.

“There has been a lot of confusion since we put out the release,” she said.

The Park Service, she said, will spend 2009 “cleaning up our own house” on the use of lead.

The release said the new lead reduction efforts will include changes in NPS activities, such as culling operations or the dispatching of wounded or sick animals. Rangers and resource managers will use non-lead ammunition to prevent environmental contamination as well as lead poisoning of scavenger species that may eventually feed upon the carcass.

“After we do that,” Lyle said, “we will get the public, the industry, the stakeholders involved.

“There will be a lot of time to have input,” she noted.

And Lyle said that in addition to calls opposing the effort to remove lead from ammunition and fishing tackle in the parks, there have been calls that are supportive of the effort to remove the metal, which can be toxic if ingested, from the environment.

The issue of lead in ammunition and fishing tackled has been talked about for several decades. It has been at the forefront of the green movement since lead shot was prohibited for waterfowl hunting in 1991. That came in the wake of studies that showed that lead pellets were ingested by some waterfowl and could cause harm to them or their environment.

Since then, at least a half dozen states have prohibited lead in ammunition and fishing tackle, mostly smaller-sized tackle.

The National Park Service Press Release noted, “Lead is banned in gasoline, children’s toys, and paint because of its effects on human health. In the United States, there is an accelerating trend to expand efforts to reduce lead contamination associated with firearms and hunting. California and Arizona have recently implemented mandatory and voluntary bans, respectively, on lead ammunition to facilitate California condor recovery. And Yellowstone National Park has had restrictions on lead fishing tackle for years to protect native species and their habitats.”

In addition, according to ASA, a number of states have regulated lead in fishing tackle. They include:

• New Hampshire— The first state to ban the use of lead sinkers. Legislation passed in 1998 (effective in 2000). The legislation prohibits the use of lead sinkers in lakes and ponds up to one ounce and lead jigs up to one inch in length. Later expanded the legislation to include all waters of the state.

• Maine—Passed legislation in 2001 (effective January 1, 2002) to ban the sales of lead sinker 1/2 ounce or less.

• New York—Passed legislation in 2002 (effective May 2004) that bans the sale of lead sinkers to the end user.

• Vermont—Passed legislation prohibiting the sale (effective January 1, 2006) and use (effective January 1, 2007) of lead fishing sinkers 1/2 ounce or less. The state implemented a lead sinker education program beginning July 1, 2004.

In Massachusetts in July of last year, a bill that sought to regulate lead weight and sinker devices in all inland freshwater bodies did not proceed forward at the end of the legislative session.

Most of the restrictions in other state have addressed smaller pieces of metal – pellets and small sinkers – that are more easily ingested. And most involve freshwater lakes and ponds.
Hatteras tackle shop owners are very unhappy, not too happy, or just barely accepting of a possible ban.

Bob Eakes, owner of Red Drum Tackle who serves on the board of the American Sportfishing Association, says there really isn’t another metal suitable for fishing on the Outer Banks.

The Park Service in its release said that non-toxic substitutes for lead made in the United States are now widely available, including tungsten, copper, and steel.

“Is there anything like lead that is malleable and affordable and that we can use to fish off the beach here?” asked Eakes.

“Absolutely not,” he answered.

Eakes said he could understand that small pieces of lead from shot, BBs, or lead shrapnel might be a problem for waterfowl. But the size of the weights used to fish the Outer Banks make then an unlikely meal for a bird.

“It’s ridiculous,” Eakes said. “The level upon level of regulations the government puts on us.”

Frank Folb of Frank and Fran’s tackle shop in Avon, notes that as far as he is concerned anglers cast into state waters and the state has had nothing to say about lead tackle.

“And,” he adds, “have you thought about what the cost will be to the angler?’

Tackle made out of alternative metal, he said, will be much more expensive and larger and bulkier to achieve the same weight.

Folb also noted that lead is used not only in sinkers, lures, and jigs, but also in cast nets and fishing rods and reels.

Bryan Perry, owner of Frisco Rod and Gun, says that all of the locally made lures contain lead.

“The intentions are probably good,” he said, “but it’s just all a part of the ‘green gone wild’ movement.”

“It’s not the end of the world,” Perry said, “but it’s just going to add up to more expense for fishermen when we don’t need anymore expense.”

MORE INFORMATION

Frank Folb of Frank and Fran’s tackle shop in Avon did some research comparing lead lures to other metals.

Here is some of what he found.

A few facts:

Lead: (Preferred lure and sinker metal)
Present Value per pound: 60 cents
Melts at 622 degrees F
A cubic inch weighs .409 lb.

Bismuth: (Alternative 1)
Present Value per pound: $15-$17
Melts at 520 degrees F
A cubic inch weighs .350 lb.

Difference in cost alone would make sinker prices skyrocket. Presently I sell a 5-ounce sinker for $1, but with Bismuth the price would have to be $25. Also the size of the sinker would increase about 15 % making casting more difficult.

Copper: (Alternative 2)
Present Value per pound: $1.80
Melts at 1980 degrees F
A cubic inch weighs .321 lb.

Presently I sell a 5-ounce sinker for $1, but with Copper the price would have to be $3. Also the size of the sinker would increase about 21 % making casting more difficult. Pouring sinkers would also become much more expensive because copper would not melt until you reached 1980 degrees F and molds and handling would at least triple in cost making the $3 for a 5- ounce sinker low.

Zinc: (Alternative 3)
Present Value per pound: 55 cents
Melts at 757 degrees F
A cubic inch weighs .254 lb.

Presently I sell a 5-ounce sinker for $1 and with Zinc the price would have to be $1. Also the size of the sinker would increase about 60 % making casting much more difficult. Pouring sinkers would also become much more expensive because Zinc would not melt until you reached 787 degrees F and molds and handling would increase cost making the $1 for a 5-ounce sinker a little low.

Steel: (Alternative 4)
Present Value per pound: 10 cents
Melts at 2777 degrees F
A cubic inch weighs .160 lb.

Cost of steel is only 17% the cost lead, but the cost of production of the finished product would be so high that the retail would skyrocket to at least the cost of then copper alternative of $3 for a 5-ounce sinker. Also size of the 5-ounce sinker would increase by 70% and they would RUST as well. Impossible to use.

Does anyone know if lead weight is used inside freshwater lures?
Maybe if it is encased it will not be a problem.
If that is the case then why can't lead sinkers be dipped in some sort of material (plastic or another metal)?
It's obviously not an issue of birds ingesting 4oz sinkers.
I think it's too early to freak out about this.
Wherever lead is banned it is all small stuff.
Fishermen are ingenious. They have found ways to make do and I am certain someone will come up with a way to let us continue using our tackle and make it safe for the enviroment.

Would you buy a house with lead paint? No. Even though you handle lead sinkers, jig heads and everything else? I use my teeth to open split shots made from lead. It doesn't seem like a big deal while fishing but when buying or selling houses it's a huge deal because it's poison. We all love lead but we all know it's not a good thing. You wouldn't want your family handling it and it's not a good thing to add to the ocean. I'm not trying to lecture anyone. I'm guilty as charged. But the bottom line is that the %$%$%$%$ is bad. I smoke butts and know it's bad too. http://www.http://kidshealth.org/par...poisoning.html. Toy companies don't get sued for multi-millions because lead is safe and fun for the whole family. Again don't get me wrong I use it and have for years. But we need to not be ignorant for their reasons for banning.

I have my head gear on for the punishment I may take for this post.

need hydro drill set up for drilling holes in small stones

or tubular netting might be a solution too

http://www.industrialnetting.com/netguard.html

Are they going to remove all the lead flashing used in the buildings along the seashore also? I doubt it.
I can see banning the small stuff that can harm birds and stuff but large stuff is not likely to be confused with eggs or something. It's going to have to be a process and shouldn't be jumped into.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WESTPORTMAFIA (Post 675985)

I have my head gear on for the punishment I may take for this post.

Why the headgear? You made some valid points.

The world isn't coming to an end simply because lead weights are being banned. There's plenty of alternatives as someone noted.People don't hesitate to shell out $500 plus for a reel. I don't anticipate people will quit fishing because weights just became more expensive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plum Crazy (Post 675817)

your assuming common sense

this is the federal gov

they close the beaches to driving during the height of the tourist season!!

no compromise

closed

this won't be any different

kiss anything with lead in it, on it, around it, that knows it, that went to grammer school with it...

goodby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slipknot (Post 676011)

don't believe tit

the environazi's won't compromise, neither should we

give them an inch.....

never let the feds get involved with anything you don't want to see destroyed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back Beach (Post 676032)

you don't get it

we lose liberty after liberty

freedom after freedom

and you just keep bending over asking for another one

we've got to draw the line somewhere

Quote:

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& (Post 676054)

If this whole thing includes internal weights in lures etc then say goodbye to the use of all wood lures that have ever been made...and say hello to $25-50 poppers instead of $10-12.00....as well as many other forms of tackle...

This ban will DRAMATICALLY increase the cost of all fishing tackle....and I will go so far as to say it will put MANY out of business.

I find it most interesting that they haven't made any kind of clarifications on this stuff. Almost like they're doing this by the seat of their pants...or they're being lobbied by someone to eliminate fishing...

If you look at what other states have done they eliminate small size stuff due to the bird ingestion issues, but there are specific exemptions for things like lures that have the lead encapsulated in them or glued inside...

What's absolutely ridiculous about this whole lead issue is that lead has been used for almost 10,000 years as a building material, as an additive in many many manufactured items-many of which could not exist today unless it was there...many things that people use every day like glasses, silverware, etc.

I think the ban will be un-enforceable. What are they going to do stop you from fishing, cut your lure open and swab it for lead? It just doesn't make any sense.

thank you salty!!!!!

finally a voice of reason

draw the line

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddmatt (Post 676063)

you don't get it

we lose liberty after liberty

freedom after freedom

and you just keep bending over asking for another one

we've got to draw the line somewhere

Actually I do get it. There's an old saying.."He who defends everything defends nothing."
Certain things are worth fighing for and lead sinkers aren't it, IMO. Issues you dig into and defend are access issues, which impact everyone.
As a fisherman who spent most of my life on CCNS, I can tell you although I used to think CCNS existed strictly for the enjoyment/exploitment by shore based striped bass fishermen, I realize now it was never the case then and it isn't the case now.

Bird hunters adapted to steel shot without too much pain.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slipknot (Post 676011)

It's going to have to be a process and shouldn't be jumped into.

Right on Slip, so no need for anyone to get overly alarmed until the facts come out. So far I've seen no facts here, just suppositions.

This is what i got back from the NPS. I applaud them for getting back with me so quickly. I think i sent the email to him on saturday morning. I was surprised to get a responce this fast.

Dear Mr. Cerny,
Thank you for your email concerning the use of lead lures in nationalparks. The recent announcement of the National Park Service aboutlead-based hunting and fishing equipment focused on halting the use ofthose items in our own activities, with the ultimate goal of removing leadfrom the environment. Before any restrictions are placed on fishermen orhunters, parks will follow a process that will include notification ofproposed rules and the opportunity for comment by interested members of thepublic. I have sent a copy of this email to Superintendent George Prices at CapeCod National Seashore for his information, and to let him know of yourconcerns. Thanks for your interest, and for your support of the National ParkService!

Sincerely,
Phil SheridanAssistant Regional Director,
Communications National Park Service Northeast Region
200 Chestnut StreetPhiladelphia, PA 19106
215-597-0865

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Rockcrawler (Post 676071)

And the truth shall set you free.....

Get use to it. It's gonna happen. No lead. Not in jigs, not in sinkers, not in plugs.

I saw a study that showed how much lead gets on your hands just handling sinkers when you put on one your line...should you eat a sandwich afterwards without washing with warm water and soap for 20 seconds.... you are now poisoning yourself is significant. Perhaps this is why bottom fishermen seem less intelligent then most other fishermen :jester: (just kidding)

What about all the comms and Striper cup yahoos who support yo-yoing? Actually dumping hundred of # of lead directly INTO fish, many of which escape. These fish digest or pass the lead but some of it has to be absorbed in the fish. Then either get re-caught and eaten OR spawn. Does this lead poisoning effect the eggs of the young? Too many serious questions, best to be conservative and stop all lead. There are substitutes.

It will take a while to phase everything out, if I had to guess...probably 5 years.

BTW, last time I looked lead cost more than .60/lb, it is more like a buck+. Perhaps you van get it for .60 if you buy it by the ton.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back Beach (Post 676032)

.
The world isn't coming to an end simply because lead weights are being banned. There's plenty of alternatives as someone noted.People don't hesitate to shell out $500 plus for a reel. I don't anticipate people will quit fishing because weights just became more expensive.

I knew it, I knew it, I knew it !!!!!
http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripert...ad.php?t=55869
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