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Bad News - it's official
Just when we hoped for a little better:
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Is this Mass or RI.
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The comm's don't want you taking their fish... (not really!) but the two fish limit combined with the 43% increase in tonnage (of big breeder fish) the comms get to take will put some real pressure on the fish.
Quick! lets get all we can while they are still out there...thats the logic. |
As I understand it (probably not too well), under Amendment 6, not using your quota means it'll wind up somewhere else. Here in NY they tried rolling back the season opening to April 15 (from May 8 in previous years) to add additional mortality. With the colder than normal winter and the delayed arrival of fish in most places, we're probably gonna get a 2 fish bag sometime in the fall. :(
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:doh: That's just going to hurt us further down the line. I agree that the regs should be more uniform up and down the coast, but I don't agree with a two fish bag. Like John says, it just opens the door for twice as many shorts to go home with dishonest people (I don't even want to classify them as anglers):af: We won't feel the effects until it's too late as in years past:lossinit: :peessed:
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Thats the problem with quotas... its gonna be taken...just who gets their hands on it. Its the mine mine mine attitude...nothing but a bunch of 3 year olds. This whole thing is so poorly handled that it is making me downright sick.:yak:
Don't forget the huge commerical black market that already exsists for bass...its bigger then the actual commerical makret. 4500 lic in MA and only 1500 actually reported selling any fish....gimme a break! Enforcement? It does not exist. I have live and fished in NY, CT, RI and MA for bass my whole life...and I NEVER was stopped and I NEVER even SAW or heard of anyone getting busted for taking a short...its a friggin joke. IMO shut it all off...no taking of any bass coastwide. I can live with that. |
This is Mass - full e-mail alert is here:
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"Emergency action (effective May 2, 2003) was taken to adopt a May 1, 2003 control date for the commercial striped bass fishery after which any person issued a new commercial fisherman’s permit endorsed for striped bass fishing will not be assured of future access to or participation in this fishery if a management regime is developed and implemented that limits the number of participants in this fishery."
This proves its all about personal greed for the few... Its a quota system...it doesn't matter how many fisherman there are...in fact more commerical fisherman means more lic. fees...why don't they want more commerical fisherman? BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT "THEIR FISH" (read their fat share) DILUTED. This proves that the people on the board who vote are part of or in bed with those with commerical interets. Good thing I got my comm lic last winter , maybe I can auction it off on Ebay:yak: |
Can't believe you guys are suprised.......look, I just came back from Jersey.....the land of the fish grab.....
One day while I was there, I went to a B&T and saw three guys weigh in six fish....one guy had one at 28" (just barely). Another guy had one at 25" and another about 34" (they have a "slot" down there....yeah right, nice slot one at 24-28 and another at 28+). The third guy had three fish, his "slot" fish, his "keeper" and his one on the "bonus tag". (The "Bonus Tag" supposedly is NJ Rec's "right" to the fish the the Com's can't keep down there) These are guys that go out everyday or every other day, and weigh in stuff like that 4-5 times a week...... Okay, I'm guilty.....I travelled 300 miles one way, spent over $400 on motel, gas, bait, food, beer (okay maybe a good chunk on beer....;)).......I kept two fish over 6 days....one was 28 1/2", the other, 27.9999999". Probably two out of the maybe four stripers I'll keep all year. In the meantime, there are guys like the above that will keep 2-3 fish every week for 30 weeks out of the year. Not to mention the netters I saw a 1/4 mile or so off the coast.....yep, they are out there for mackeral and weakfish....NJ has no commercial striper fishery.....um, yeah, right......I dunno....the one net I saw had to be at least a half mile long......ya think it had a sign on it that said "mackeral and weakfish only, please"?.....and no matter whether they kept the stripers that couldn't read, or threw them back, they are dead fish either way. So I can't get all riled over 2 fish a day at 28.....as much as I would prefer something different......the one at 28 and the one over 40 sounded good to me....... But looking at the regs up and down the coast, can you really blame the Mass guys for deciding to "get their share"? |
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"it will be simpler to enforce and for anglers to comply with" Comon how hard is it to comply with one 28-40 and one over 40. Got a tape measure ! Its not rocket science. Oh,,,it must be cause it will be easier to enforce... ENFORCE !!! COMON. $*%&^ JOKE. At the DMF hearing I attended last month almost all recs voiced their opinion for the slot of one 28-40 and one over 40 or status quo. What happened ??:af: HEY THIS IS MY 1000th post. What a blabber mouth !!! :smash: |
You want to get sick? Go to any market in Chinatown and check out all the shorts they're selling.:sick: :yak4: Sucks when the market will support the over harvesting of a fragile fishery. :af:
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Who do we call/send letters to let our voices be heard.
This is an abomination. Why are they trying to kill ALL of the fish? Enforcement issues? You've got to be kidding me. I'm sick over this. I wish it was back to 36''+. |
:af: :af: :af: :af: :af: :af: :af:
That's just pissa :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: Now the charter boats can limit out with catches similar to Capt Rick Caton from NC :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I am not surprised , just disgusted. If ya can't beat'em, join'em:af: NO WAY Mass took the easy road I guess, instead of taking the lead.:mad: :mad: :mad: How much do golf clubs cost?:mad: |
How bought the commercial guy from Fairhaven. Took a tantrum when no one would second his motion on commercial guys not being able to possess a striper on off days.
I heard he thru a chair across the room and got taken out by the EPO's :smash: :smash: |
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I guess this guy has a bad temper he was blaming president of Mass Bass for having the fix on the meeting in Weymouth and said he stacked the room with members.
We all know that that is not true. But he had to have some one to blame |
Haven't read the new rules yet:confused:
If JohnR is right about the two fish limit meaning that i can now catch two fish over 28" per day as a recreational fisherman that means recreational fishermen will catch approximately 3-4 million lbs. per year. What's wrong with that??? :D :D I love it:happy: :happy: Don't complain about the commercial guy only being able to catch 1 million lbs. Mr. Sandman, you don't know what you are talking about:smash: :smash: :smash: Mr. Sandman you are not all wrong:cool: :cool: Ido agree with you about women in waders:happy: :happy: :happy: |
Gentlemen,
A few thoughts... 1) Though a lot of us were in favor of 1 over 28 and one over 40 the numbers show there to be almost no difference due to the relatively few people who take bass over 28" to begin with. some will disagree with this statement but it is just true. the average person takes less than one keeper bass per year. I thought this was BS the first time I read it but I, as most of us on this board are the exeption, rather than the rule. I still do not like the 2 over 28, but it is not that bad. 2) In the time I have been reading this board I have never read complaints about all the states South of MA that have been taking 2 fish, including our beloved RI. 3) for those who are complaining on this board and want to write letters to express their opinion.....TOO LATE YOU FOOL... there was extensive information out on this board and in many other places around the hearings of two weeks ago...that was the time to get your voice heard...now it is just plain too late...please remember that if each one of you wrote a letter or showed up at a hearing and gave your opinion, things might be different 4) I would go on but why...those complaining here seem to be just like most recs...they want things to happen then do not show up to be part of the process....it is a damn shame |
Mike P. wrote....
"As I understand it (probably not too well), under Amendment 6, not using your quota means it'll wind up somewhere else." Mike , this is not true.. |
I agree with every syllable of what Patrick said (perhaps a first for me :rolleyes: ).
I went to at least 4 fishing websites and posted the announcement for the hearing well in advance (if it wasn't already there). After the hearing, I went back to these same posts and replied "Just curious, did anyone on this forum attend?" Out of all the forums, I think that the forum with the most attendees was three. In the past, I enjoyed coming to striped-bass.com because it was the one place that I could count on for a "common man's" perspective on fishing. Indeed, there once was a time when this was the one fishing site that anyone could turn to without reading page after page of whining drivel from misinformed / uninformed elitists. Unfortunately, things have changed. I can't even post a herring report here without being "cautioned" for taking prespawning fish. This, despite the fact that I get my herring at the best managed run in the state. Yet somehow the folks here seem think they know better? Please! Give me a break! Now somehow I'm a greedy fishgrabber if want to keep 2 keeper bass a day - even if the best available science says that it is OK for me to do so. Huh? Newsflash folks: Before it was called "sportfishing", it was just called plain old "fishing". I blows my mind how so many folks who do not participate in the process have so much to say against the outcome. It also disturbs me when folks have such a knee jerk reaction to any relaxation in fishing regs. Just check out the title of this thread and consider that its author didn't even attend the meeting yet he has no problem portraying the outcome as doom and gloom. It may surprise the many folks here who weren't at the meeting that going to 2 @ 28'' does not equate to a 100% increase in the real take but only a 21% increase. Van, I love ya man, but actually 3 out of the 4 fishing clubs in attendance voted for the 2 @ 28'' option. - Plum Island Surfcasters (2 @ 28'') - Marblehead Surfcasters (2 @ 28'') - Cape Cod Salties (2 @ 28'') - Massachusetts Striped Bass Association (1 @ 28'' plus 1 over 40'') Yes, there were several individuals who got up and advocated for the "1 @ 28'' plus 1 over 40'' option (including myself). But let's face it, most of those folks were also MSBA members and it is somewhat redundant to also include them in the count since their (our) position is largely accounted for in the formal MSBA position. Don't get me wrong. There is something to be said about the inherent passion it takes for there to be a physical body present and speaking to the comission in one's own words. However, number-wise, the total number of folks who supported option "C" is somewhat skewed due to the forestated reason. Check out the audio at the following link. John and Slipnot, I suggest that you particularly listen to the last sound bite where Paul Diodati and Tom Smith discuss "pre-crash" take limits and then ask yourself again if this is "responsible management of a species" or not "taking the lead". http://www.basspond.com/cgi-bin/ib/i...ct=ST;f=8;t=50 While I too didn't get the outcome that I had hoped for, I can certainly live with it. I personally find saltwater fishing to be a feast or famine endevour and I get skunked more often than not. It would be nice to take 2 fish home on the days when they are really biting, but only if the science supports it - which it does. By-the-way, the commission's vote was unanimous. All this said, I am all done with trying to get folks from websites interested in these hearings because I am now convinced that all it will do is negate my own view. In other words, I want take limits to be decided by looking at the best available science and not by the babble of a bunch of whining, doom and gloom, elitists. That goes for all of the fishing forums out there since there doesn't seem to be a dime's worth of difference between any of them anymore. Actually, now in hindsight Patrick, I have to say that there is something about your post that I do disagree with. You say that it is a "damn shame" that those complaining here do not show up to be a part of the process. I disagree. I say don't bother trying to get them involved. It's not a shame at all that they don't come to the hearings. Let them all continue to talk amongst themselves here where they will have no real impact on the process. We would all be better served by input from those who don't look at these fish as toys, but rather, look at them as chowder and fillets. Mike Flaherty |
2 stripers?
:smash: :af: :af: :smash: :af: :af:
Dumb, just plain dumb what thier doing to the fishery. I'm deppressed thinking about what this means to most of the people who fish for linesiders as a sport. Looks like we are heading for the bad days agian. :yak: This being said, I love to eat the fish I catch, I'll keep 2. Just being honest. How do I join a club so I can vote on issues in the future? |
Its a free for all! GRAB ALL YOU CAN WHILE THE GOING IS GOOD! That is the message I hear!
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Flats i totally agree.living in VT. it makes it hard to attend meetings.what gets me is that people can go out and catch 20 to 70 fish a trip and still say there are no fish. if youlook at the past decline most people who weren't even born yet will say over fishing caused the coolapse, when in reality it was the pollution and destruction of the breeding grounds of the fish.the pollution of the cheesapeakebay from the farm run off. the building of houses and bulking eveery creek on the NE coast. the run off of fertiziler on our lawns etc. the 'overfishing" just finished off what was already dead.
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I agree with every syllable of what Patrick said (perhaps a first for me FPRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=").
I agree with most of what Patrick is saying as he does know a lot about what he speaks of. Based on a few more years of experience. I went to at least 4 fishing websites and posted the announcement for the hearing well in advance (if it wasn't already there). After the hearing, I went back to these same posts and replied "Just curious, did anyone on this forum attend?" Out of all the forums, I think that the forum with the most attendees was three. In the past, I enjoyed coming to striped-bass.com because it was the one place that I could count on for a "common man's" perspective on fishing. Indeed, there once was a time when this was the one fishing site that anyone could turn to without reading page after page of whining drivel from misinformed / uninformed elitists. Unfortunately, things have changed. I can't even post a herring report here without being "cautioned" for taking prespawning fish. This, despite the fact that I get my herring at the best managed run in the state. Yet somehow the folks here seem think they know better? Please! Give me a break! Mike - I'm excited that you have learned all there is to know about fisheries management in the whole 2 years you've been following it - kinda sounds like you are the expert now - and now can lead the masses into proper fisheries management. I think that is amazing cause I see people that have been going for years that will admit that it is not easy to follow and always a challenge. But now we have you, the defender of the common man (What the Hell is the "Common Man" anyway??) Well, fortunately this place is where you DISCUSS amongst other anglers the ying and yang of fishing, state of the fisheries, how to catch the dang fish AND release it if so choses, or who will win the playoffs. That's what happens in a community (usually) like this. People can climb up on top of their soap box - I do it from time to time myself. You certainly can be found on the highest Soap Boxes all over the place. But I degress. Apparently we need to whine and drivel. I can't even post a herring report here without being "cautioned" for taking prespawning fish. This, despite the fact that I get my herring at the best managed run in the state. Yet somehow the folks here seem think they know better? Please! Give me a break! You think that taking a herring before is spawns makes no difference than taking them when they are dropping back? Ever hear how mommy fish make baby fish (in this case lots of baby fish) and that this fosters GROWTH in a fishery? YOU may be taking these fish from the best managed herring run in the world but you can't tell me that taking fish that have yet to spawn is no different than taking fish that are dropping down. This is purely a case of you filling your freezer because its cheap at the expense of the fish. But WTH, if you don't do it someone else will and that just aint right, eh? Since it's LEGAL, better you stock up on them before they spawn then someone else does. And it's not like you were leaving the run and feeding these fish to hungry bass because they weren't there 3 weeks ago. Hey since it's legal maybe I should keep every 28.5 " fish I barely manage to keep whenever I get 2, that will show me that I'm a great angler. Hi honey I'm home! Got Dinner! Just because it's legal doesn't make it right or better. Now somehow I'm a greedy fishgrabber if want to keep 2 keeper bass a day - even if the best available science says that it is OK for me to do so. Huh? Newsflash folks: Before it was called "sportfishing", it was just called plain old "fishing". Did the best science change in 4 months? Did the best science state that if the commercial allocation was increased by a third and the recreation believed "take" was increased by nearly a third, it would have no impact on the fishery? Did best available science, which as of a few months ago intimated that there might be a closed season if we took nearly a third more fish - change? And that other drastic measures would need to be considered if triggers are hit in following years because things turned too hard on the fish? Were the numbers crunched often enough that eventually it was determined OK? Personally I think that you need to allow for a good cushion as the scientist don't always like to admit that their numbers are not based on hard fact but are based on educated guesses. These educated guesses are than weighed and factored against other educated guesses, all the while the cirular error or probability gets wider and wider. It's informed and well thoguht out gueswork Mike. How do you ruin a fishery that's becoming stable? You open it up another third. I blows my mind how so many folks who do not participate in the process have so much to say against the outcome. Thankfully we have the defender of the "Common Man" doing this for us. Now I'll be honest, I do respect and appreciate that you go to most of these meetings, forward the bazillion e-mails that you forward on everything from local issues to the feelings of sea scallops in the East China Sea, post the thousand messages all over the net, I do appreciate the dedication you bring to the table. And you are right that a lot more people should be involved but get off your high horse a little when you do it. It also disturbs me when folks have such a knee jerk reaction to any relaxation in fishing regs. Just check out the title of this thread and consider that its author didn't even attend the meeting yet he has no problem portraying the outcome as doom and gloom. It may surprise the many folks here who weren't at the meeting that going to 2 @ 28'' does not equate to a 100% increase in the real take but only a 21% increase. The "author of this thread" did not attend this meeting as the wife of "the author of this thread", living in another state I might add, had to go home to watch the son of the "author of this thread" so the wife of the "author of this thread" could go to class. Now pehaps I could have left work even earlier, drive the 65 miles from work thru Boston and Providence, picked up my son, drive the 55 miles back to the club and drive back home before his 7:30 bedtime. All for a fisheries meeting in another state. Flaherty - get your head out of your butt and know what you are talking about please. Van, I love ya man, but actually 3 out of the 4 fishing clubs in attendance voted for the 2 @ 28'' option. - Plum Island Surfcasters (2 @ 28'') - Marblehead Surfcasters (2 @ 28'') - Cape Cod Salties (2 @ 28'') - Massachusetts Striped Bass Association (1 @ 28'' plus 1 over 40'') Van - grats on the 1000th post :D Yes, there were several individuals who got up and advocated for the "1 @ 28'' plus 1 over 40'' option (including myself). But let's face it, most of those folks were also MSBA members and it is somewhat redundant to also include them in the count since their (our) position is largely accounted for in the formal MSBA position. Don't get me wrong. There is something to be said about the inherent passion it takes for there to be a physical body present and speaking to the comission in one's own words. However, number-wise, the total number of folks who supported option "C" is somewhat skewed due to the forestated reason. See above Check out the audio at the following link. John and Slipnot, I suggest that you particularly listen to the last sound bite where Paul Diodati and Tom Smith discuss "pre-crash" take limits and then ask yourself again if this is "responsible management of a species" or not "taking the lead". http://www.basspond.com/cgi-bin/ib/...act=ST;f=8;t=50 When I have the oodles of time - perhaps tonight if I get chance to reinstall a sound card - I'll go over and listen to it... While I too didn't get the outcome that I had hoped for, I can certainly live with it. I personally find saltwater fishing to be a feast or famine endevour and I get skunked more often than not. It would be nice to take 2 fish home on the days when they are really biting, but only if the science supports it - which it does. By-the-way, the commission's vote was unanimous. I'm glad you can live with it. I'm glad that in the 2 or so years since you've gotten into saltwater fishing and have become an expert on all things saltwater - feast or famine or not - that you can live with this. I remember an inkling of what it was like 25+ years ago, I remember filling 5 gallon buckets of 18" fish (and it was "legal" then too) I'm glad the science supports it. I'm glad that I can attempt to debate this with you here and that there are people to debate it with. I'm glad of all the things we discuss here other than I will be greatly pi$$ed if this fishery is run aground again. All this said, I am all done with trying to get folks from websites interested in these hearings because I am now convinced that all it will do is negate my own view. In other words, I want take limits to be decided by looking at the best available science and not by the babble of a bunch of whining, doom and gloom, elitists. That goes for all of the fishing forums out there since there doesn't seem to be a dime's worth of difference between any of them anymore. Mike - show us the way to this panacea of knowledge that you must posess. Us Doom & Gloom Elitists need a leader such as yourself. We're obviously would rather babble about it. Otherwise toss away an avenue to correct the situation and don't let the door hit you in the ass Actually, now in hindsight Patrick, I have to say that there is something about your post that I do disagree with. You say that it is a "damn shame" that those complaining here do not show up to be a part of the process. I disagree. I say don't bother trying to get them involved. It's not a shame at all that they don't come to the hearings. Let them all continue to talk amongst themselves here where they will have no real impact on the process. We would all be better served by input from those who don't look at these fish as toys, but rather, look at them as chowder and fillets. Mike it is a "dam shame" that more people are not involved or show up to meetings of follow the newsletters and brochures but I also think I smell a case of meeting elitism on your part. And I think you are suffereing from mild acute optical rectumitis if you think we should view these fish purely as food. Not everything should be looked at as food. I personally feel that you need to look at all the ways - food, income to the individual and community, god forbid look out a little for the fish, the forage, and yes the, uhh, what is it - sport. I really wish I could spend more time reading this and responding my son wants to play and I'd rather do that than follow up further on this "elitist drivel". If you don't like it, the door is there, if you want to participate in a constructive manner you are encouraged to do so, if you want to charge windmills with a toothbrush you can do that too. And speaking only for myself - do not EVER question my desire to go to these meetings. Do not EVER question my decisions to forgoe a meeting when my wife or son is sick - EVER. Going to a meeting in Danvers near where you work or to a meeting near your home is significantly easier for a guy such as yourself -v- a guy that lives on the Cape -v- a guy that lives on an Island -v- a guy that lives in another state. So get off your high horse and stop screaming at people for not being involved and find a way to encourage people to go. If you want to yell at me, yell at me for spending more time at Mass fisheries meetings (my home state) than those of the state I currently reside in, Rhode Freakin Island. You and I need to have a nice little chat when we see each other... Sincerly, the elitist babbling webmaster ... John |
And while we are at this "discussion", where is the F2F info I've been asking for for over a month.... Mr F2F representative...
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two 28's is insane. if i had a dollar for every "of size" bass that i see the weekend warriors take...
it really does not make any sense. during the summer there is not one day when i cannot find some ham'n egger stretching a bass. |
yes, it is insane to keep two 28 inches stripers, but we dont have to follow the striper regulation. we can keep one or none if we want it.
on the other hands, the saltwater fishing newbies might follow the regulation and keep two fishes at 28 inches. and we can't prevent that everywhere, right? alternatively, we can try to encourage people to keep one fish or release it. i would rather to keep one, but it's tempting to keep two, because i can't feed my family two fishes and it would make them fat in one summer. |
Guys 2 at 28" may be insane, but look at what some other states are doing. New Jersey for instance. I heard on another board that they can take 2, and a bonus pin or tag fish. Patrick is it ot true that Mass could of went to 2 fish years ago? If thats the case, they did'nt till now, and other states are rapinthe resource. FWIW I know that when I am fishing, I will do the right thing. People who are fishing with me will be encouraged to do the same.
Toodles |
man raised tuna
i don't know if anyone saw that documentary on the japanese guy
who figured out how to raise tuna in a land locked ocean ponds on TV ......but it would seem like the striper could have the same process employed since they also adapt to freshwater well. It would seem like all hatcheries are good buisness and provide more jobs and help to protect resources. Giant halibut from alaska have 2 million eggs each in them so why are these eggs not flown to hatcheries on the east coast is my thinking process here. Science can't just be about determining population and more and more strict regulations. More out of the box thinking is required to change things for the better. Fishing technology cant only just be about new lure, reel or rod designs.:rolleyes: theres no problems -> only solutions , is a better way to THINK. |
connecticut 2 bass
as of may 15th connecticut with go to 2 bass at 28 inches. it's a crying shame i was ok with 1 @ 24 and 1 over 41.
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