Obama blames rise of ISIS on Bush's policy of not "aiming before we shoot"
There are not words in our language to describe the contempt I have for Obama. Nothing is ever, ever his fault. And he always looks to blame someone else, preferably someone like Bush, who Obama knows won't fire back.
If Bush didn't invade Iraq, there might not be an ISIS, since ISIS is a derivative of "Al Queda in Iraq", which didn't exist before the invasion. Here is what Obama fails to mention. When Obama took office, thanks to the Surge, AL Queda in Iraq was defeated. We have the intercepts of the few remaining leaders of Al Queda in Iraq telling other groups to stop sending fighters, that it was lost in Iraq, that we had won. Obama was urged by many to secure a Status Of Forces agreement with Iraq to leave behind a peacekeeping force so that we didn't give back what we sacrificed so dearly to achieve. Obama was warned that if we left to early, in the vacuum that was left, a terrible force could fill that void. Obama the Wise ignored all that advice He also ignored the early warnings of ISIS, calling them the JV. He inherited a stable Iraq. He did nothing to stop the rise of ISIS. Not only does he want no part in stopping them (he's more than happy to leave that mess for his successor), God knows he isn't going to take responsibility for yet another complete failure on his watch. The Obama stimulus was going to keep unemployment below 8 percent, and create all these shovel ready jobs. Obama said the days of gas under $2.50 a gallon were gone forever. Obama makes fun of Romney for suggesting that Putin was a threat (the 1980s called, they want their foreign policy back, haw haw haw) Obamacare was going to save the average family $2500 a year. If you like your doctor/plan, you can keep it. "I don't know what happened at Harvard, but it's fair to say the police acted stupidly". That's the way to bring the country together. He told ISIS exactly when we were leaving Iraq, they waited, and then started killing and raping. He brushed them off as the JV. And it's all Bush's fault. That's a hell of a list of failures. Jerk. How long, O Lord? |
A nice summary of the things you've gotten wrong over the years.
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Easy to insult me Spence. A bit harder to point out the specific inaccuracies in my list, I think... Everything good that happens, he takes credit for. Like the rooster taking credit for the sunrise. Everything bad that happens, is someone else's doing. |
Do you disagree with the fact that if we didn't invade Iraq, that Isis wouldn't exist?
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"If Bush didn't invade Iraq, there might not be an ISIS, since ISIS is a derivative of "Al Queda in Iraq", which didn't exist before the invasion." The fact is, we invaded. Obama sought the office of POTUS, and a big part o fthat job is managing foreign policy in the Middle East. What did Iraq look like when Obama took office? It was stable and promising. Al Queda in Iraq was absolutely decimated, thanks to the Surge (which Obama opposed, and refused to admit was a success until he had no choice). The genesis if ISIS happened entirely on his watch. If Obama wants to say he inherited a lousy economy (and take credit for the improvement since his inauguration), then using that same logic, we must also admit he inherited a stable Iraq, and deserves some blame for how terribly that has deteriorated on his watch. He cannot have it both ways. He can't take credit for all the improvements and dodge guilt for all the thing sthat got worse. He's an unbelievable egomaniac, and he's mind-boggingly unfit for the job he's in. . |
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Obama ran on the premise that he promised to get our troops out of the mess that bush got us into. Seems like he should be able to take credit for that, no? Isis will be waswas in a couple of years.... Watch
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I think you're wrong but I hope you're right about Isis Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Time will tell.
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Nebe, I have news for you. We are going back into Iraq in a big way. Not before this idiot is out of office, but sometime after. And every single drop of blood that is spilled in the campaign to rid the world of ISIS, is on his hands, because there was no ability for ISIS to take root in Iraq when Obama took office. They were decimated. Obama created the vaccuum that allowed them to get going, and then he completely blew the analysis of their potential threat when he called them the JV and did nothing to stop them. When Obama took office, Iraq was stable, and had free, successful elections, in which the candidates representing the most extreme factoins of Islam were defeated. That's what he inherited. Now it's a disaster. |
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Don't you guys call that "being a maverick"?
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That said, even realizing, given the world we live in, that could not happen, let me amend what you said. I don't recall exactly how Obama's promise was phrased regarding the troops, but what he got them out of (almost), was Iraq, not the mess Bush got us into. The "mess" was the war. Wars are always messy. The aftermath of the war was a reversion to some order, one in which there was "hope" (one of Obama's favorite words) for the citizens to lead a freer life. But that was contingent on our continued military presence there. What Obama did was to get the troops needed for that to happen out of Iraq. What he did was squash the possibility of the "hope." What that also did was to squander the lives, limbs, and treasure spent on securing the hope. Even if we grant that we should not have gone there in the first place, and that is not satisfactorily granted by all, what's done is done. And it is arguably unreasonable to throw out whatever good came of it, just to belittle the premise for it--to waste the loss of life in order to fulfill a political promise. Obama "should be able to take credit for that". As far as ISIS becoming a "waswas" in a couple of years, that, hopefully, will be true. All things, good or bad, come to an end. In the meantime, ISIS has been a setback to the "hope" for Iraq. And that hope is even further being diminished by the rise of Iran's influence there. And we seem to be going in the direction of letting Iran have its way. And, in my opinion, Iran, and, Turkey and, Saudi Arabia, and the Palestinians, and other Middle East countries aren't going to immediately destroy ISIS, but let it continue a little while to eradicate Christian influence there. THEN, that being done, the Middle Eastern powers will make ISIS a "waswas." |
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Iraq was stable, though the stability was still fresh and fragile, when Obama took office. Every single rational person would agree that the sole reason for the new-found stability was the overwhelming military presence provided by the Surge. Iraq qas a godawful mess before the surge. I didn't hear too many military advisors tell Obama that there was little/no downside to withdrawing the way we did. But he is motivated by radical left-wing ideology, not facts and empirical evidence. |
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He won't
All he hears are the voices in his head Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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Spence,Dangles, please correct any specific errors I made? |
All I said is you won't use the search. As in a previous discussion when you also insisted there was only one side of the coin. You are extremely black and white which is why you have one dimensional knowledge. This has obviously limited your ability to think but you seem fine with that so good luck sport.
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I don't want to get in the middle of, or even take sides in, a personal pissing match. But why is it assumed that Jim did not "use the search"?
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Sea Dangles, do you disagree that Obama inherited a stable Iraq, thanks to the Surge? Do you disagree that Obama claimed the stimulus would keep unemployment below 8% or that he said we could keep our doctors/plans, or that he said the average family would save $2500 a year thanks to Obamacare? Those things all happened... |
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Two peas in a pod
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It's like the same Benghazi questions, answered multiple times by several investigations, being asked again, again and again. |
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Nor does it mean that those who constantly qualify their opinions with vague, noncommittal, contingencies such as "perhaps, possibly, seems" or other hedging ambiguities have made "the search." I don't think many of us, if any, have made an exhaustive, even a large, "search." And when Spence said "Because the questions he asks have been answered sufficiently multiple times in this forum yet he just keeps asking and asking" it doesn't mean that Spence has "used the search." There may be a lot of searching that Spence hasn't done. He doesn't cite a lot of the sources which disagree with him. And Jim may be using sources that Spence has not "searched." It is obvious that Jim has searched sources that belie Spence's assertion that his questions have been answered "sufficiently". Or, as you say, he only hears voices in his head. And, it may be, that both Jim and Spence suffer the same malady of insufficient "search_--as you say, two peas in a pod. Though, I don't think Spence would want to be in that pod. And, I think, Jim would be willing to survive in it. I think ScottW had a good retort. |
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