Islam
 

Poll in London (I have no view on whether or not this is a legitimate polling outfit), say that two thirds of British Muslims wouldn't tell the British government about an upcoming terror plot.

Given this, is it really so hard for the liberals to understand where [people like me are coming from, when we say it might not be a great idea to import more of these people?

Immigration is awesome, it makes us stronger and better. We can have, and should aspire to have, many ethnicities. But we can only have one culture. And I don't see these people making a concerted effort to adopt to the culture of their new host countries.


http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/12/23..._medium=Social

Isn't it ironic that all of the European countries that opened up their borders (and arms) to refugees fleeing from other countries controlled by Islamic regimes are now experiencing a major increase in terrorist activity from people that came from those refugee countries?

Is it no wonder there are so many incidents where they call the attackers "home grown" terrorists when many of them have been making regular "pilgrimages" to their homeland (no doubt to get either indoctrinated or get their assignments)???

I agree, immigration helped make this country what it is today, but if we turn a blind eye to what will happen if nothing is done, we will become just another victim of these "diseases" of the civilized world.

At what point does "compassion for fellow man" become "selling out your fellow man"? (See what "sanctuary cities" will justify to allow ANYONE to move there!)

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...e-lost-control

Pretty scary.
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white guy kills 2 on Train another white guy shoots five ex-colleagues in head

and the is in the country you live in,,, but we care more about when the word islamic is attached . if not oh well nothing to see... worried about those around you those in England Most are home grown English born

"And I don't see these people making a concerted effort to adopt to the culture of their new host countries. "

And I dont see people making a concerted effort to see them as equal in their host countries ... thats true here and a lot of other places doesn't justify their actions at all but lets no look at the issue thru a key hole like so many try to do

https://www.icmunlimited.com/wp-cont...Survey-web.pdf you can read question asked and see the answers its a bit more in depth then jus t2/3rds Of British Muslims Wouldn’t Tell Government About A Terror Plot

A better way of life, benefits, simply don't cut it. You just gotta kill folks if you don't think they see you as equal. Makes a lotta sense. Anyway, why is there all this fuss about "Islamists" when there's plenty of white folks killing people. Oh, wait, I get it. It's a way of becoming equal. If white folks do it, Islamists get a sense of equality by doing it too.

So it's all good. That equality thing is made whole. We can relax.

WDMSO, what large, global movement was the nut on the train, a part of?

"we care more about when the word islamic is attached"

Wrong. I don't care more about one victim than the other. But I see a difference between things that we can easily stop (who comes to our country and who doesn't), and things that are much harder to control (what some individual lunatic does in a country of 300 million people).

In other words, there is no logical way I know of, to prevent individual lunatics from harming others. But there absolutely are things we can do, to reduce our exposure to jihadists. It's a question of whether or not we are willing to do it. But it can be done if we chose to do so.

"And I dont see people making a concerted effort to see them as equal in their host countries "

Please support that. Why are Muslims so desperate to flee to the West, if they are treated so shabbily there?

That husband and wife who went on an office killing spree a few years ago (California?), had just been given a baby shower at the husband's company. The jihadists don't kill us because we are mean to them. They kill us because aren't exactly like them, we don't force our women to dress like ninjas and mutilate their genitals. You really don't see that?

The extremists don't kill for any logical (if there every is one) reason. No social, religious, economic, political or mental connection.

They kill because they are "supposed to" kill.
Not because we are different, but just because we exist!

I could probably understand (not approve, just understand) why they do what they do if it were for a noble cause, but because they don't have a cause it boils down to their only goal in their short diseased lives is to kill and destroy as many and as much as possible.

Extremist religions are nothing more than a perversion of an established mainstream religion, twisted and distorted by sick minds for their own sick goals. Their only true selling point is telling their suicidal eunuchs that they'll get a reward AFTER they're dead and gone! Look at any of the past cult religions that ended in massive deaths and make your own comparisons.....


Oh, and there was another attack yesterday in France.....

They kill for the exact reasons you say they don't.

1.Social-they kill to implement sharia law,living that way is a social change.
2.Religious-religion is their #1 motivation to kill and implement sharia law.
3.Economic -they kill for monetary reasons...they need money to support the cause.
4.Political-in a sharia society there is a strict hierarchy and they will maintain it at any cost which includes killing.
5.Mental connection-they are insane.

As far as "supposed to" kill,the killing of infidels is mentioned more than once in the koran.Its the definition of infidel that the extremists and normal people differ on which directly ties into...they kill because we ARE different and we exist.

"Not because we are different, but just because we exist!"

How do they determine who they want to kill, and who they are OK with? There is a jihad against those who have different religious beliefs, compared to their beliefs.

"Extremist religions are nothing more than a perversion of an established mainstream religion, twisted and distorted by sick minds for their own sick goals. "

Agreed.

"Look at any of the past cult religions that ended in massive deaths and make your own comparisons....."

What other religions, in the last 500 years, have resulted in massive deaths, especially in massive deaths of non-believers?

No one is worried about the Amish today.

Luckily it's a religion of peace. Can you imagine if it wasn't ?
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Says the often pro war conservative republican. :hihi:
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Sounds like you are blaming the victims a bit.

Here we go. In the latest London attack, one of the terrorists came to England as a refugee with his parents. While there, his rotten fellow citizens helped him secure a job, a place to live, and an education for his children. But he was pushed into it by those racists hatemongers in Britain.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/06...to-emerge.html

How many hawkish Republicans can you name, who want to wage an un-provoked war of aggression, where we specifically target non-combatants, based on religious beliefs and nothing else?

Lucky us.

During my lifetime, maybe after we lose 10,000 or more, the West is going to have a very ugly but very necessary conversation, about whether or not this religion is compatible with the current Western world. Anger will overtake political correctness at some point.

When was it that the left lost all the resolve they had right after 9/11? Was it a symptom of Bush Derangement Syndrome?

thats a typical response from someone who cant look at the topic objectively ... it naive to think its an immigration only issue or an Islamic issue or a class issue or a money issue ... whats the cure ??? do you have one or anyone else on the planet to deal with these Aholes before they commit theses crimes other then deport them based on religion... in the end the blame fall on the perps but not every thing happens in a vacuum

England is trying
http://www.npr.org/sections/parallel...lso-draws-fire

being afraid of ISIS is like being afraid of whats under your bed .. you have become exactly what they want you to be AFRAID you accept their legitimacy you call them Global, you make it an us against them and will do what every is needed and allow freedoms to be reduced for some ...for the protection of the others its been done before and wasn't a shining moment in our History

"it naive to think its an immigration only issue "

I never, ever said that all acts of terror are carried out by immigrants or refugees. That would be stupid. What I am saying is, SOME acts of terror are carried out by immigrants and refugees. And because of that fact, it's reasonable to conclude that letting in refugees, at least until we can appropriately vet them, isn't worth the risk. Obama reached that same exact conclusion when he temporarily halted immigration from Iraq for a few months, and I don't recall the left attacking him for it. Do you? If so, please refresh my memory?

"or an Islamic issue "

it's naïve for me to assume that there is a connection between Islam and Islamic jihad? How many people have been slaughtered in the last 15 years, in the name of the Amish? Or the Quakers? Of course, many many people die tragic deaths for reasons that have nothing to do with Islam. But some do, so it's worth asking if the body count is an acceptable price to pay for being tolerant.

I never said it's only immigrants, I never said it's only Islam. You are responding to arguments that nobody is making. In my experience, one does that when one cannot effectively respond to what was actually said, so it's easier to pretend that I said something else entirely (something stupid) and respond to that.

"whats the cure ??? "

Do you ever, ever listen to those who disagree with you? How can you not know what the proposed cure is? If we are talking about protecting our citizens from getting slaughtered by Muslim refugees, the answer is to deny them entry until we can safely vet them - which is what Obama did. I agree that's very, very harsh.

The left would have us believe that there is no upside to it, because that wouldn't stop every single wrongful death on the planet. Once again, no one made that argument (notice a pattern here?). What my side is saying, is that banning refugees who can't be vetted, would likely save SOME lives. It doesn't mean we'd all live forever. But it would have kept one of the terrorists who carried out the recent London attack, out of England. So there is a cost (being less tolerant), and a benefit (being safer).

"deal with these Aholes before they commit theses crimes other then deport them based on religion"

Well, we could also get our act more together. In the case of the Boston Marathon brothers, the Russians specifically told our government, that those 2 were Islamic terrorists. We need to be more effective.

But to answer your question honestly, no, I have no other solution but to deny immigration to Muslims, if they are from certain places that are known for terror, AND they can't be sufficiently vetted. Banning them, is all I've got. And it stinks. It really, really really stinks.

What stinks more in my opinion, is letting them in, and then just keeping our fingers crossed that they don't slaughter our neighbors.

I answered your question directly and honestly, no spin, no sugarcoating, correct? Can you show me the same courtesy? How many innocent civilians need to be slaughtered by Muslim immigrants, before you would agree that the ban is a necessary step? Is there a number? I think we have already exceeded that number, which is why I regretfully support the ban. What price are you willing to pay? How many Americans are you willing to sacrifice in the name of tolerance, before you conclude the risk is too great?

"you make distinctions between a murders action based on religion i make my based on outcome white guy on the train co worker kills 5 ruth killed nine people and husband and wife (the only one called terrorism) i see them all as terrorism"

So because there is no way to stop ALL terror attacks (or all murders), you argue that there's no reason to try and stop any. Brilliant.

There is a huge difference between some random nut who goes on a killing spree because he's a schizophrenic psychopath, and what Osama Bin Laden did. If you disagree with that, you might be the only person in the world who doesn't make that distinction. Dead is dead - I agree on that. But different types of crime represent different problems requiring different solutions. You are saying that because no one solution works for all, that means there is no solution worth trying. You have the right of that opinion. But I don't get it.

You work in criminal justice. Don't you know that we have gun laws to prevent certain types of crime, we have drug laws to prevent other types of crime, we have domestic violence programs to prevent yet other types of crime, we have drinking and driving laws to prevent yet another type of crime.

Why have DUI laws? People still get killed in car accidents, right? That's the logic you are using.

Ahhh. 1983 all over again ;)

"being afraid of ISIS is like being afraid of whats under your bed"

Wrong. There isn't anything under my bed. But there is a huge number of jihadists who would cut my kids' heads off if they could get their hands on them.

"you have become exactly what they want you to be AFRAID"

I would argue you have become what they want us to be - clueless.

"you accept their legitimacy "

I do? When the hell did I do that?

"call them Global"

Yes, because they operate in almost every country on the planet. I could call that "local", but that would be inaccurate.

"you make it an us against them "

No, they made it us against them when they declared jihad and flew planes into buildings. Jesus.

"allow freedoms to be reduced for some ...for the protection of the others"

You betcha.

"ts been done before and wasn't a shining moment in our History"

Every criminal law we have on the books, every single one, limts the freedom of some, for the protection of someone else. Should we do away with criminal laws?

The "Some" you refer to have no freedoms...zip, zilch, nada. They are refugees living in another country (Syria). IF they can pass a better vetting process, they can come here and instantly gain freedoms they did not have before. So nothing is being reduced.

And the "Others" you refer to are US citizens and law abiding immigrants that we have allowed to come here.

Damn skippy that's an acceptable trade-off.
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We have a vetting process not sure what your better vetting involves other than Ban .... and what about US citizens and law abiding immigrants that we have allowed to come here. who are getting lump into America Islamic fear not for anything they have done but by the fear of what they may do just because they are Muslim.. we did this with Japanese Americans what makes you think it cant happen again

We have a POTUS who leads the fear parade to play to his base
so he goes after Londons Mayor (after the attack ) and Londoners are not very happy

Trump mocked Khan's comment on Sunday, suggesting in a tweet that the mayor was downplaying the attacks.

Trump's comments drew widespread scorn in Britain but the U.S. leader went on the attack again on Monday, saying in a tweet: "Pathetic excuse by London Mayor Sadiq Khan who had to think fast on his 'no reason to be alarmed' statement. MSM is working hard to sell it!" Trump wrote. MSM referred to mainstream media.

your funny I never suggested not try to stop any crimes or terror attacks.. Just countering you're suggestion that banning a religion is prevention

But there is a huge number of jihadists who would cut my kids' heads off if they could get their hands on them.

I am more afraid for my kids with pedophile priest than isis in America


Where have you been for the last 30 years ?? these people have been around by different names same places same ideas same actions. the internet has made them look untouchable global

I am all for vigilance But operating based on Fear do not have the same out come

So you are saying that if we ban immigration from places where we can't vet, that it's inevitable that would lead to rounding up US citizens and sending them to concentration camps.

WDMSO, yes, that happened before. That doesn't mean that we can't stop it from happening again. Believe it or not, it is possible to take some extra steps to increase security, without abandoning the Constitution completely. We aren't one small step away from being a police state, that's a long way from where we are.

"We have a POTUS who leads the fear parade"

Some call it an appropriate reaction to the jihad declared. By your own admission, you have zero concern about ISIS, so naturally you feel that "any" concern, is too much.

"Trump mocked Khan's comment on Sunday, suggesting in a tweet that the mayor was downplaying the attacks"

That mayor is a lunatic. Right after the attack, he tells citizens that there's nothing to be concerned about? "See all those mutilated bodies? All those dead kids from the concert last week? Nothing to be concerned about!"

"I am more afraid for my kids with pedophile priest than isis in America

I am sure you are. Another example of your logic and bigotry towards those with whom you disagree.

"these people have been around by different names same places same ideas same actions"

Today is no different than 30 years ago? 9/11 wasn't a game-changer? They aren't killing more people today than 30 years ago? Wow. I mean, wow.

"the internet has made them look untouchable " Name one person who thinks they are untouchable? Ever heard of drone strikes? They are very, very touchable. Do you ever stop putting words in other people's mouths? I cannot begin to imagine from where you get your information, about what people like me think. Your assumptions about what we believe, are hilarious.

"I am all for vigilance "

No, you're not. You said ISIS was no more of a threat than what's under my bed. Your words, not mine.

WDMSO, you also dodged a question of mine, so I will ask it again.

How many innocent civilians need to be slaughtered by Muslim immigrants, before you would agree that the ban is a necessary step? Is there a number? I think we have already exceeded that number, which is why I regretfully support the ban. What price are you willing to pay? How many Americans are you willing to sacrifice in the name of tolerance, before you conclude the risk is too great?

Sir i do not live in irrational fear as you do .... More Americans have been killed by other Americans in the last week.. then by the Musulims you fear so much since Trump was elected all this with out his Travel band .. unlike you I am willing to risk myself for tolerance. right now you dont sound much different then they do.. Waving the flag dosn't change the message you spew ... America is built on Tolerance and the risk will never be to great when America isolates its self in fear as you suggest we have lost and lost everything

No , fear of a Catholic priest but not Isis is totally rational 🤡
So tolarent .... damn white people are scary too
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Really??? Somebody might want to tell them

http://www.naturalnews.com/wp-conten...6114546730.png

http://www.wnd.com/files/2017/03/Mid...les_murray.jpg

http://www.truthrevolt.org/sites/def...?itok=m2mUf_rb

http://cdnph.upi.com/collection/fp/u...-Trump_3_1.jpg
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