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-   -   Vegas and Automatic Weapons (http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showthread.php?t=92866)

Slipknot 10-03-2017 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1129229)
Slipknot, your arguments make a superb case as to why the things I posted, can never eliminate gun crime entirely. Never. But you cannot tell me that they won't help reduce it a bit. Maybe it' snot worth the liberty we'd have to give up, that might be a valid point. But many argue on the right that there is zero benefit to any gun laws, that we can't reduce crime by one zillionth of one percent. I don't buy that. Noting is that absolute.

I understand your point
I have common sense also


BTW that bill is about suppressors, not silencers. They suppress the noise a bit, not silence. That is Hollywood who use silencers not real life. Suppressors can aid in saving hearing and noise pollution, I'll wear ear protection and use the range in the hours allowed and I am fine with that. If you want a suppressor, go to a state that allows one I guess.

Sea Dangles 10-03-2017 02:47 PM

It is terrible what happened but I really feel a need for a high caliber rifle. I see them at the range and get jealous.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Slipknot 10-03-2017 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulS (Post 1129239)
Ok, but that is not what you said.

correct, I said Left because that is what Hillary is and that is relevant in this case ,no? . what is your point, that there are others that do the same thing? does not make it ok

The Dad Fisherman 10-03-2017 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1129240)
I don't argue the point, but making a bomb might require some online searches and research, which might have raised a red flag to law enforcement.

Well, the guy did already have a trunk full of Ammonium Nitrate, and that didn't raise any flags.

JohnR 10-03-2017 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulS (Post 1129212)
And the pro- gun crowd doesn't do the same?

Did anything happened in Feb. of this year w/background checks?

What would Feb have made a difference on?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulS (Post 1129213)
Is allowing silencers a common sense gun law?

Edit - think how many more deaths there may have been if people didn't know as soon where the gunman was.

"Silencers" / noise suppression reduce sound mainly at the shooter by tens of decibels, so from levels that wreck your hearing to levels that merely play havoc with your hearing. They don't "silence" a gun so nobody can here it - unless you are in Hollywood (sarc).

I would prefer not needing to register with ATF and pay $200 to buy a suppressor and reduce the impact on my ears. But it is illegal for me to own one in RI and I do not own one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulS (Post 1129226)
I believe that was going to be introduced this week (and remove a $200 tranfer tax on slencer) - also loosen regs on armour piercing bullets, allow gun owners to transport registered firearms across state lines, carry guns in national parks.

So I am OK with autos being banned (they are) but would like to see silencers allowed - for my hearing.

I would enjoy an opportunity to fire full auto for grins and giggles - or a bump stock. I don't own a bump stock and have no desire to get one. I CANNOT LEGALLY purchase an auto without jumping through a lot of paperwork and have no desire to do so.

tysdad115 10-03-2017 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles (Post 1129243)
It is terrible what happened but I really feel a need for a high caliber rifle. I see them at the range and get jealous.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Lol.. I've wanted a high caliber rifle forever but I don't know what one is. Whatever it is it's going to have high capacity clips too. Because pew pew.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

PaulS 10-03-2017 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slipknot (Post 1129244)
correct, I said Left because that is what Hillary is and that is relevant in this case ,no? . what is your point, that there are others that do the same thing? does not make it ok

No it does not make it right but I wasn't making that point you were. You are acting as if the right doesn't do that when there's numerous cases in the past they have. we can't hold someone to a higher standard than you hold yourself or you can't hold one party to a higher standard than you hold another party
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

PaulS 10-03-2017 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnR (Post 1129246)
What would Feb have made a difference on?
.

No it wouldn't have.

I was pointing out where you said that the left keeps trying to make legislation more restrictive by showing you an example of the right trying to weaken legislation. That's what both parties do
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

scottw 10-03-2017 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tysdad115 (Post 1129247)

Lol.. I've wanted a high caliber rifle forever but I don't know what one is.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

you are a dumb ass....a high calibered rifel has lots of calibers and probably a silencer thingy so you can sneak up on people

nightfighter 10-03-2017 06:02 PM

This guy was a murderous nut job. He had the fiscal ability to acquire weapons and accessories legally. Marrying some of these accessories to the weapons is against the law, as it is currently written here in Mass. ie suppressor and bump stock. A bump stock will convert a semi automatic into a full fire automatic, and it is stupid easy to install and make operational in less than ten minutes. Again, the law states that in this configuration it is illegal. As for large capacity feeders and magazines, I will address what I know, which is about magazines. In Mass. It is illegal to possess magazines of over 10 rounds capacity. Pre-ban magazines manufactured before September 13, 1994 are exempt from this restriction.. So I cannot buy or acquire large capacity mags legally. These are some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation.
So what is the next step? To stop the production of accessories such as bump stocks and suppressors? Maybe. Turn in all accessories that "could" render a weapon illegal? (I have none) Require all pre ban magazines be turned in? That won't happen...(mine are pre ban). Unless it were to be mandated upon transfer or death of registered owner.
It is a slippery slope. Both sides of the debate need to find some room for negotiation in the best interest of the Union. But I also think our monies would be much better spent on mental health in this country and rebuilding our hurricane ravaged states, cities, and commonwealths as opposed to spending billions in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and other active theaters

tysdad115 10-03-2017 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1129256)
you are a dumb ass....a high calibered rifel has lots of calibers and probably a silencer thingy so you can sneak up on people

Oh I am a dumbass...no argument there. If your multi high calipered riffle has a shoulder thing that goes up you are a felon. Nobody needs one of those.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

tysdad115 10-03-2017 06:24 PM

Ross by definition it does not make it a full auto, it doesn't.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_fire
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

nightfighter 10-03-2017 06:34 PM

Technicality and we both know it. It allows continuous gas cycling of the bolt and trigger override (re set). Consider the source of the definition and that another author could word it differently. Different means to reach the same end.

tysdad115 10-03-2017 07:18 PM

I've shot them and I've shot some of the new select fire binary triggers where squeezing the trigger fires a round and releasing it fires another.. practice with each of those can really cook rounds out but they aren't "automatic" .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Slipknot 10-03-2017 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulS (Post 1129251)
No it does not make it right but I wasn't making that point you were. You are acting as if the right doesn't do that when there's numerous cases in the past they have. we can't hold someone to a higher standard than you hold yourself or you can't hold one party to a higher standard than you hold another party
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I'm not but thanks for assuming
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

spence 10-03-2017 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightfighter (Post 1129261)
Technicality and we both know it. It allows continuous gas cycling of the bolt and trigger override (re set). Consider the source of the definition and that another author could word it differently. Different means to reach the same end.

Agree. He had 12 semi-auto rifles with bump stocks. To argue if it's really fully auto or not at this point defies conscience. Listen to the #^&#^&#^&#^&ing audio.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

tysdad115 10-03-2017 08:44 PM

I know full well exactly what they sound like. Nobody is arguing , the definition of full auto is defined and regulated by BATFE not me. There's thousands of these plastic stocks out there..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

spence 10-03-2017 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tysdad115 (Post 1129278)
I know full well exactly what they sound like. Nobody is arguing , the definition of full auto is defined and regulated by BATFE not me. There's thousands of these plastic stocks out there..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Because they're not illegal. At least not in Nevada.

You know I'm not anti gun. I've actually been looking at buying a hand gun because shooting is a lot of fun. Like a lot of fun.

That being said...I don't see how high velocity weapons are useful for sport shooting, hunting or even home defense.

So what's the point? The argument to defend against an oppressive government is really just a pile of bull#^&#^&#^&#^&.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

PaulS 10-03-2017 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slipknot (Post 1129273)
I'm not but thanks for assuming
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I got that from what to you posted and I pointed it out.
You said the left politicizes the tragedy.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

detbuch 10-03-2017 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1129279)
You know I'm not anti gun. I've actually been looking at buying a hand gun because shooting is a lot of fun. Like a lot of fun.

That being said...I don't see how high velocity weapons are useful for sport shooting, hunting or even home defense.

Have you taken a step toward the dark side? Didn't you once say that the purpose of a hand gun was to kill? Now its lots of fun? I congratulate your evolution of thought on the matter. Some do get a rush, lots of fun, firing high velocity weapons. Could be a higher order of gun sport. You might want to give it a try. Your guns as fun philosophy may evolve into a higher more refined perspective. Gun ranges could get permits to buy such guns purely to be used for sport shooting on the range.

Think on it. A boost for the economy. A peaceful way of asserting excess testosterone. Competitions evolving into a sort of American pastime. Available to all of the various genders, testosterone loaded or not. Televised tournaments at which the national anthem could be played and the Second Amendment read by a Monday Night type of cis-female. And thus another venue provided for those who wish to protest how America oppresses them. Competitions ranging first from the smallest size hand guns which can be hidden in the palm of a hand all the way to the grand finale of high velocity guns all ending with the roar of rapid fire in an All-American gun fest giving new meaning, usefulness, and appreciation for the supposed American love of guns.


So what's the point? The argument to defend against an oppressive government is really just a pile of bull#^&#^&#^&#^&.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device



Right . . . right . . . just a pile of bull poop. History has shown that people never had to rebel or defend against various sorts of tyranny. Oh, that's right . . . we humans have evolved to a time where governments will forever be benevolent, peopled by humane, nice-guy rulers who have our best interests at heart. Who bend to our will rather than their own. With those minor exceptions, of course, when they know better than us what our best interests are. No doubt, after we are dis-armed, they will see the even greater need for them to protect us against . . . against . . . well, against ourselves, or even other bad nasty governments. And that bull poop piece of paper that limits their ability to protect and nourish us can be discarded.

Here's an interesting article showing how the strictest gun controls in Western society prevent mass killings:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/...las-vegas.html

I know, I know, it is written by John Lott, so it must also be bull poop

wdmso 10-04-2017 04:07 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by tysdad115 (Post 1129145)
Lol..easily converted. Go ahead and order a full auto sear , I'll wait here for your reply about the feds showing up at your door.. thousands die from cancer ,you can still buy cigarettes. Booze and cars kill more and they're still readily available..
Point is if you don't like them don't get one. And don't tell me what I can/can't own because you don't like them.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

own as many as you want they should all be registered..

and stop the lie there coming to take your Guns ...

Yes its your right to own a gun what about those 59 and counting Rights not to be killed by Guns "don't tell me what I can/can't own" I am sure thats a comforting remark to the Familys ...

Gun owners are so afraid to say there a gun problem in this country if your a responsible gun owner as you say you are be involved the change needed or get rolled over by it ..

Jim in CT 10-04-2017 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1129277)
Agree. He had 12 semi-auto rifles with bump stocks. To argue if it's really fully auto or not at this point defies conscience. Listen to the #^&#^&#^&#^&ing audio.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

100% correct. To deny that bump stocks can be used to make a semi auto achieve near full auto functionality...well it's hard to talk to someone who would deny that. As you said, all you need to do is listen to the audio, no human being can pull a trigger like that.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

tysdad115 10-04-2017 05:17 AM

"near full auto" not full auto. If you're going to split hairs about who can own what I'll split them in regards to what is factually a full auto and what isn't.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

scottw 10-04-2017 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by spence

To argue if it's really fully auto or not at this point defies conscience.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1129286)
100% correct. To deny that bump stocks can be used to make a semi auto achieve near full auto functionality...well it's hard to talk to someone who would deny that.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Quote:



so which is it? "really fully auto"..."or not"....or...."near full auto"....hard to talk to someone that can't even make a simple distinction


according to the bump stock website...it is "simulated full auto"...so there's another term you can act smart with


this effort to marginalize if someone is trying to make a simple distinction(and since the discussion is over legality) when you are engrossed in emotional verbal venting is...well....makes communication tough:wavey:

scottw 10-04-2017 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1129285)

own as many as you want they should all be registered..is there some lack of registration of legally owned guns that we're unaware of?

and stop the lie there coming to take your Guns ...who said this?

Yes its your right to own a gun what about those 59 and counting Rights not to be killed by Guns "don't tell me what I can/can't own" I am sure thats a comforting remark to the Familys ... I don't think anything could comfort those families right now

Gun owners are so afraid to say there a gun problem in this country if your a responsible gun owner as you say you are be involved the change needed or get rolled over by it ..

I think gun owners are happy to point out the "gun problems" in this country which are most often caused by crazies and center most routinely around lovely places like Chicago-this past weekend for instance(at least 32 people were shot over the weekend, including a man killed along the Chicago River on the Northwest Side and a 13-year-old boy wounded while riding his bike in Little Village on the West Side, according to police Between Friday afternoon and early Monday, at least four people were killed and 28 others wounded, police said. The weekend violence brings to at least 2,877 the number of people shot in Chicago this year. There have been at least 527 homicides..)...and that's actually an improvement over last year...not sure if the guns were registered/unregistered...or..."semi full auto"...and I doubt those families can be comforted



I'm not a gun owner by the way...could one of you guys please enumerate the "changes" you'd like to see....Jim tried and failed miserably...unless you think we can retrofit millions of guns(legal and illegal) with fingerprint technology that may or may not exist or something(which would not have stopped the vegas shooting)

tysdad115 10-04-2017 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1129279)
Because they're not illegal. At least not in Nevada.

You know I'm not anti gun. I've actually been looking at buying a hand gun because shooting is a lot of fun. Like a lot of fun.

That being said...I don't see how high velocity weapons are useful for sport shooting, hunting or even home defense.

So what's the point? The argument to defend against an oppressive government is really just a pile of bull#^&#^&#^&#^&.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

There is so much fail in your statement . It's actually mind boggling.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

tysdad115 10-04-2017 06:11 AM

Again this was a tragedy for sure , undoubtedly. This type of thing shouldnt happen ever. I don't know what transpired in the man's head to do so and I can't fathom performing this cowardly act.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim in CT 10-04-2017 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1129291)
Originally Posted by spence

To argue if it's really fully auto or not at this point defies conscience.



Quote:



so which is it? "really fully auto"..."or not"....or...."near full auto"....hard to talk to someone that can't even make a simple distinction


according to the bump stock website...it is "simulated full auto"...so there's another term you can act smart with


this effort to marginalize if someone is trying to make a simple distinction(and since the discussion is over legality) when you are engrossed in emotional verbal venting is...well....makes communication tough:wavey:

Spence, as you said, all you need to do, is listen to the audio. One of the first cops at the scene radioed that he thought it was a belt fed machine gun. He shot 600 people, right? SIX HUNDRED.

Why split hairs over whether it's auto or "near full auto"? Why does anyone need bump stocks in their home?

Lots of people die in car accidents, but cars provide an incredible amount of freedom to almost every single one of us. That's why we tolerate the inevitable deaths, because society can't function without them.

Can we really say the same thing about bump stocks?

Jim in CT 10-04-2017 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1129292)
I think gun owners are happy to point out the "gun problems" in this country which are most often caused by crazies and center most routinely around lovely places like Chicago-this past weekend for instance(at least 32 people were shot over the weekend, including a man killed along the Chicago River on the Northwest Side and a 13-year-old boy wounded while riding his bike in Little Village on the West Side, according to police Between Friday afternoon and early Monday, at least four people were killed and 28 others wounded, police said. The weekend violence brings to at least 2,877 the number of people shot in Chicago this year. There have been at least 527 homicides..)...and that's actually an improvement over last year...not sure if the guns were registered/unregistered...or..."semi full auto"...and I doubt those families can be comforted



I'm not a gun owner by the way...could one of you guys please enumerate the "changes" you'd like to see....Jim tried and failed miserably...unless you think we can retrofit millions of guns(legal and illegal) with fingerprint technology that may or may not exist or something(which would not have stopped the vegas shooting)

I concede I failed miserably. But what do we tell the families of the victims, if we do absolutely nothing?

scottw 10-04-2017 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1129298)

Can we really say the same thing about bump stocks?

ok, I'm for that...ban bump stocks....I read that he may have been more deadly with a weapon that was more targeted....bump stocks apparently make it very hard to control the fire and are frequented with problems....it took the police 72 minutes to get to him...

this would be the first "bump stock massacre" that I'm aware of...what do you tell all of the victims of other "non bump stock gun violence"?


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