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scottw 10-05-2017 04:03 AM

[QUOTE=JohnR;1129367]

I'm OK with banning bump stocks


QUOTE=WDMSO

trying to go around the Law and promoting a false Narrative NRA and gun makers word games

Like Bump stock simulate rapid Fire their not making gun full Auto if your in denial




see...even when you agree they keep arguing like you disagree...talk about perplexing :eek:...it's almost like marriage

DZ 10-05-2017 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1129342)
Again I'm not a gun owner currently, but I guess I'm curious why a guy legally (I assume) amassing such a large arsenal of weapons is automatically flagged as someone maybe law enforcement should be looking at?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I feel the same way. Perhaps a better flag would be a public listing of any gun owner who owns more than a certain number of weapons (pick a number). Listing of weapon owners would be publicly posted at city/town halls and printed in local media (newspaper) quarterly. Just as gun owners have a right to bear arms I think residents and law enforcement have a right to know if there is a "private arsenal" for lack of a better word in their neighborhoods. All to often neighbors say they had "no idea" their neighbor had that many weapons. If they knew maybe they could monitor behavior more closely and alert law enforcement.

Nebe 10-05-2017 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DZ (Post 1129382)
I feel the same way. Perhaps a better flag would be a public listing of any gun owner who owns more than a certain number of weapons (pick a number). Listing of weapon owners would be publicly posted at city/town halls and printed in local media (newspaper) quarterly. Just as gun owners have a right to bear arms I think residents and law enforcement have a right to know if there is a "private arsenal" for lack of a better word in their neighborhoods. All to often neighbors say they had "no idea" their neighbor had that many weapons. If they knew maybe they could monitor behavior more closely and alert law enforcement.

If th government can regulate sudafed to flag an abuser (potential meth cook), they can moniter arms hoarders. Unless the hoarder has a lot of straw men buying for him.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

JohnR 10-05-2017 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1129370)
trying to go around the Law and promoting a false Narrative NRA and gun makers word games

Like Bump stock simulate rapid Fire their not making gun full Auto if your in denial ... ATF noted that according to Slide Fire, the device “is intended to assist persons whose hands have limited mobility to ‘bump-fire’ an AR-15 type rifle.”

https://youtu.be/x0f7OCnrrpkor Please note his trigger finger not moving and if someone think thats not Automatic fire they shouldn't own a gun


suppressors-good-for-our-hearing yea thats why they are made i thought that was what ear plug were for?


https://www.nraila.org/articles/2011...or-our-hearing

WE ARE IN )#*$#$$!@ AGREEMENT on Bump Stock / slide fire. YOU ARE NOT READING THE EFFING QUOTE. I am cApLoCkInG so you might stop to read rather than narrativetalkingpoints. You are going down the road of NRA this and that and jumping topics. (PS - not yelling mad, yelling shockingly but with @#(*#$@#$ smiley faces :faga: )

As for trigger control, some are way faster than others (though when speed goes up accuracy typically goes down). Kindofa stunt like a ProgressiveSocialist 22 year old mom's basement with Cataracts "Medical Marijuana" recipient searching for a higher THC count. Well, except Medical Marijuana is not in the Bill of Rights.

As for noise? Any reduction in noise DBA at your ear is beneficial, no?


Quote:

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1129371)
https://www.thetrace.org/2016/08/atf...ses-explained/

a good read another topic that Americas are un aware on how the ability to track weapons have been blocked by our elected officials and Law paid for and written by lobbyist

A good read on how MOST legislation is effed up by our elected officials and often written by Lobbyists. Ever hear of the Affordable Care Act?

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1129373)
QUOTE=JohnR

I'm OK with banning bump stocks


QUOTE=WDMSO

trying to go around the Law and promoting a false Narrative NRA and gun makers word games

Like Bump stock simulate rapid Fire their not making gun full Auto if your in denial



see...even when you agree they keep arguing like you disagree...talk about perplexing :eek:...it's almost like marriage

http://memeshappen.com/media/created...now-right-.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by DZ (Post 1129382)
I feel the same way. Perhaps a better flag would be a public listing of any gun owner who owns more than a certain number of weapons (pick a number). Listing of weapon owners would be publicly posted at city/town halls and printed in local media (newspaper) quarterly. Just as gun owners have a right to bear arms I think residents and law enforcement have a right to know if there is a "private arsenal" for lack of a better word in their neighborhoods. All to often neighbors say they had "no idea" their neighbor had that many weapons. If they knew maybe they could monitor behavior more closely and alert law enforcement.

So you think posting the address of people that have X amount of firearms, publicly, would be a good idea? The two biggest firearms problems we have are suicides and violence with youth / gang - frequently with stolen / underground weapons.

Good idea?

tysdad115 10-05-2017 09:37 AM

Let the public know...yup. That puts the final cap on stupid in this thread. Good day boys!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

DZ 10-05-2017 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnR (Post 1129385)
WE ARE IN )

So you think posting the address of people that have X amount of firearms, publicly, would be a good idea? The two biggest firearms problems we have are suicides and violence with youth / gang - frequently with stolen / underground weapons.

Good idea?

Maybe - trying to come up with something. I mean we're not going to ban guns that is a given... but maybe we can regulate how many a person can own and what types they can have in their domicile. Always looking for a compromise. Discussion is a good thing ;)

DZ 10-05-2017 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tysdad115 (Post 1129387)
Let the public know...yup. That puts the final cap on stupid in this thread. Good day boys!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Tysdad - You are the people we need to hear from. I'm not a gun owner but support gun ownership. What would you suggest as a compromise?

scottw 10-05-2017 12:42 PM

I'd publish the names of gun owners as well as a list of the weapons that they own and the combination to their gun safe, just in case someone needs to get in there....that should help prevent crime.....

JohnR 10-05-2017 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DZ (Post 1129390)
Maybe - trying to come up with something. I mean we're not going to ban guns that is a given... but maybe we can regulate how many a person can own and what types they can have in their domicile. Always looking for a compromise. Discussion is a good thing ;)


I am open to discussion on the broad topics and might support some things BUT time has shown that those that only want maximum control or confiscation will go to any length and move any goal post necessary to strip Consitutionally provided rights. By publishing people's names is at worst dangerous to those people and encouraging theft or worse. At best it allows public shaming Grab-Your-Torch-And-Pitchforks of your neighbors. I don't have an "arsenal" not have intention / plans of building one but if I was on some list that would make me susceptible to people coning to my home? Where my family lives?

As for variety of guns, styles, and such - look at how many specialized rods you have - your beach rod, schoolie rods, boulder rod, plugging, Albie, oh and then add your freshwater stuff, Salmon Rod, fly rods. Specialized and task built rods for different purposes.

You could easily have 10 different guns for different purposes, competition, trap / skeet, plinking, tournaments,. You may collect old rifles like some collect Needlefish ( ; ) ) . Perfectly legit owners of guns would be called out under such a "list".

Recently in RI bills went through (I believe needing to be signed by the Gov) that requires confiscation of weapons for someone that has a DV restraining order against them. Something that reasonable people could debate. But people won't be reasonable - particularly if there are gains to be made politically. I could support something like that if it is temporary, has well defined sunset clauses, and an impartial arbiter. I really don't think we will find a neutral arbiter. Denis, how many impartial arbiters / politicians have you met in your travels through local and state government ; ) ? 20-30%? 40?

Currently their are Dem politicians at state and federal levels going around with information stating because 2A you can get Grenade Launchers and that guns should be confiscated.

Yes, we need better discussion and understanding. We also need to understand that 2A defines a Constitutional Right. There is a process to change that though, 66% approval in Congress and 3/4 states Convention.

Slipknot 10-05-2017 01:05 PM

If congress wants a compromise, pass the Share act so we have reciprocity among the states for concealed carry permits and add in to halt bump stocks to satisfy the snowflakes. Criminals and psychotic people are going to break laws to do what they want to do no matter what just like a gun free zone does not insure your safety. I see no problem with collections of arms by civilians as long as they are properly stored and as far as others not realizing it, that is a good thing.

DZ 10-05-2017 01:56 PM

Good discussion.
Here is a hypothetical question.
If you had a neighbor that had 42 weapons, all acquired legally, wouldn't you want to know? Should we have the right to know? I know we can compare it those who collect other things but most other collectibles are not considered deadly weapons. Is it a privacy issue?

Scott mentions a good point that it would be a bad idea because then criminals would then know you have a cache of weapons and try to steal them. Of course any responsible gun owner would have them in a locked weapons vault I assume. Could also be a good deterrent if it was publicly known that your home was armed to the hilt.

What we look for when we have civil discourse about a topic is a reason WHY for a stated position. John did that well with his response to my comments. The old argument of we can't do it because "It will set a precedent" doesn't cut it. Tell me why banning bump stocks is wrong and who it would hurt if they were banned. Explain why owning 42 deadly assault weapons should be legal. These are questions in the national discussion. I'm here to learn from both sides.

JohnR 10-05-2017 02:15 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by DZ (Post 1129410)
Good discussion.
Here is a hypothetical question.
If you had a neighbor that had 42 weapons, all acquired legally, wouldn't you want to know? Should we have the right to know? I know we can compare it those who collect other things but most other collectibles are not considered deadly weapons. Is it a privacy issue?

Scott mentions a good point that it would be a bad idea because then criminals would then know you have a cache of weapons and try to steal them. Of course any responsible gun owner would have them in a locked weapons vault I assume. Could also be a good deterrent if it was publicly known that your home was armed to the hilt.

What we look for when we have civil discourse about a topic is a reason WHY for a stated position. John did that well with his response to my comments. The old argument of we can't do it because "It will set a precedent" doesn't cut it. Tell me why banning bump stocks is wrong and who it would hurt if they were banned. Explain why owning 42 deadly assault weapons should be legal. These are questions in the national discussion. I'm here to learn from both sides.

Well, it sound like the shooter took multiple legal semi-automatic rifles (not assault weapons) and through mods made them near equivalent to automatic rifles - something heavily regulated since the 1930s and almost impossible to attain since 1984. This shooter may have been able to afford real autos because they costs thousands with a couple digits before the comma. But he went the mods route.

We can have a good debate on the Bumpstocks - in fact, the Evil NRA just released a statement that the Guv should look into if Bumpstocks and other methods to realize capacities closer to full auto should be banned. See attached.

If my neighbor owned 42 deadly assault weapons legal semi-automatic rifles I'd demand some range time with my neighbor to learn more.

Part of the concern with the National discussion is that people want to take them away because your neighbor having grenade launchers and Zombie stocks is morally not woke enough. /sarc

Lots of disinformation and purely wrong info out there by people that want them banned.

As for the safe, yes, your guns should be locked up and many states have regulations for that to protect against theft and negligent access by kids / other adults. My kid (that I throughout support as a great & responsible kid) does not have the combo to the safe. But a determined thief can usually bust a safe in an hour or less.

scottw 10-05-2017 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DZ (Post 1129410)
If you had a neighbor that had 42 weapons, all acquired legally, wouldn't you want to know? Should we have the right to know?

no and no....they are legally owned and registered, the local authorities know.....if you purchased 4 firearms a year over 10 years you'd have 40 weapons......people actually collect these like anything else, the drive to acquire something that you don't have or would like to add to your collection or to find something valuable for a good price all fuels this...I know people that collect some unusual stuff and spend what most would consider insane amounts of money to acquire certain things...a "collection" of one or two things isn't all that interesting, a large collection of any related objects is pretty interesting....I know...we're talking about firearms that can injure and kill...there's no shortage of preaching about properly storing these things and training for use

DZ 10-05-2017 02:22 PM

Good one ;) - I was going to ask if collecting live hand grenades was/is legal. I have no idea? My bad with the deadly assault weapons - I should have said potentially deadly semi-automatic rifles. Either way I'd want to know but that is another discussion. Good stuff John!

JohnR 10-05-2017 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DZ (Post 1129413)
Good one ;) - I was going to ask if collecting live hand grenades was/is legal. I have no idea? My bad with the deadly assault weapons - I should have said potentially deadly semi-automatic rifles. Either way I'd want to know but that is another discussion. Good stuff John!

There may be some way to collect inert ones but never tried not desired enough to bother looking. Other than a 10 second lookup based on this thread. I have seen Inert Artillery shells in Army Navy stores but never in one's house.

Did make homemade gunpowder once with a friend when we were 12. Lit up one helluva genie :hihi: - Trying to explain to the Pharmacist that one of the ingredients was for a school experiment, hahaha.

spence 10-05-2017 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tysdad115 (Post 1129387)
Let the public know...yup. That puts the final cap on stupid in this thread. Good day boys!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I do wish I could see the look on your face when you read that.

JohnR 10-05-2017 02:35 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1129415)
I do wish I could see the look on your face when you read that.

Hehehe

scottw 10-05-2017 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DZ (Post 1129413)
Good one ;) - I was going to ask if collecting live hand grenades was/is legal. I have no idea? My bad with the deadly assault weapons - I should have said potentially deadly semi-automatic rifles. Either way I'd want to know but that is another discussion. Good stuff John!

I think it's a no on the live hand grenades and I understand anyone who can't understand why someone would collect firearms, I also understand why some do...I stopped hunting primarily because I hunted with some knuckleheads once and decided I didn't really want to be in the woods if those guys or some facsimile might be out there...a .30-06 is a pretty common semi-automatic hunting rifle and also potentially deadly

Slipknot 10-05-2017 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DZ (Post 1129410)
Good discussion.
Here is a hypothetical question.
If you had a neighbor that had 42 weapons, all acquired legally, wouldn't you want to know? Should we have the right to know? I know we can compare it those who collect other things but most other collectibles are not considered deadly weapons. Is it a privacy issue?

Scott mentions a good point that it would be a bad idea because then criminals would then know you have a cache of weapons and try to steal them. Of course any responsible gun owner would have them in a locked weapons vault I assume. Could also be a good deterrent if it was publicly known that your home was armed to the hilt.

What we look for when we have civil discourse about a topic is a reason WHY for a stated position. John did that well with his response to my comments. The old argument of we can't do it because "It will set a precedent" doesn't cut it. Tell me why banning bump stocks is wrong and who it would hurt if they were banned. Explain why owning 42 deadly assault weapons should be legal. These are questions in the national discussion. I'm here to learn from both sides.

So you are suggesting NIMBY? not in my backyard. Like building a prison nearby or some other unpopular thing. Bullcrap DZ, the guns , no matter how many are not going to leave the safe and harm anyone on their own.
Locks are for honest people, a criminal with a grinder can take care of that in minutes.


42 deadly assault weapons is not the term to use in a discussion about semi automatic rifles. A so called assault rifle would be the military version of an Armalite rifle AR15 as they are known and the military assault rifles have select fire. Machine guns are not legal since the 30's so don't be like the anti gun liberals by calling a common ar-15, AR-10 ( which is the .308 version as opposed to the .223 caliber)or an AK-47 an assault rifle.

They are picking away with their gun control little by little, it is about control. They can't control us, so they want to mistakenly try to control guns. I call them guns not weapons.

wdmso 10-05-2017 04:08 PM

[QUOTE=scottw;1129373]
Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnR (Post 1129367)

I'm OK with banning bump stocks


QUOTE=WDMSO

trying to go around the Law and promoting a false Narrative NRA and gun makers word games

Like Bump stock simulate rapid Fire their not making gun full Auto if your in denial





see...even when you agree they keep arguing like you disagree...talk about perplexing :eek:...it's almost like marriage

only applies to those whom it applies ... thats all

Slipknot 10-05-2017 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DZ (Post 1129413)
Good one ;) - I was going to ask if collecting live hand grenades was/is legal. I have no idea? My bad with the deadly assault weapons - I should have said potentially deadly semi-automatic rifles. Either way I'd want to know but that is another discussion. Good stuff John!

right, that is better

wdmso 10-05-2017 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnR (Post 1129385)
WE ARE IN )#*$#$$!@ AGREEMENT on Bump Stock / slide fire. YOU ARE NOT READING THE EFFING QUOTE. I am cApLoCkInG so you might stop to read rather than narrativetalkingpoints. You are going down the road of NRA this and that and jumping topics. (PS - not yelling mad, yelling shockingly but with @#(*#$@#$ smiley faces :faga: )

As for trigger control, some are way faster than others (though when speed goes up accuracy typically goes down). Kindofa stunt like a ProgressiveSocialist 22 year old mom's basement with Cataracts "Medical Marijuana" recipient searching for a higher THC count. Well, except Medical Marijuana is not in the Bill of Rights.

I am-not arguing with those who agree on Ban on Bump stocks again just showing the BS Marketing

As for noise? Any reduction in noise DBA at your ear is beneficial, no?

Really thats your answer to that kind of marketing




A good read on how MOST legislation is effed up by our elected officials and often written by Lobbyists. Ever hear of the Affordable Care Act?
your comparing the ACA with Willful blocking of law enforcement to track guns in America talk about narratives and Talkingpoints.

these are all factual statements from the NRA and the bump stock maker If you find this kind marketing acceptable I cant change that nor Am i just exposing to sunlight


http://memeshappen.com/media/created...now-right-.jpg



So you think posting the address of people that have X amount of firearms, publicly, would be a good idea? The two biggest firearms problems we have are suicides and violence with youth / gang - frequently with stolen / underground weapons.

Good idea?

--

wdmso 10-05-2017 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebe (Post 1129384)
If th government can regulate sudafed to flag an abuser (potential meth cook), they can moniter arms hoarders. Unless the hoarder has a lot of straw men buying for him.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

they cant the law will not allow ATF to have a searchable Data base

Nebe 10-05-2017 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1129426)
they cant the law will not allow ATF to have a searchable Data base

That's my point.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Got Stripers 10-05-2017 06:04 PM

I don't see the need for the public to know who has one gun, 15 or 150, I can only see good neighbors suddenly becoming bad ones. I do however see a reason law enforcement should have access to who's amassing enough weapons to start a war. What is the difference between this nut or one that happens to be a radical Islamic nut? What they are buying, where and when IMHO should be part of the record that local law, federal agents or anyone in homeland security should be able to see.

It's sad that this is where we are today, that we can't go calmly into a football stadium, concert hall or country fair, or airport without being concerned about our safety. I see no reason to not be monitoring purchases by law enforcement and maybe this is already in place, but if not; I think it would be a good thing to be monitoring. Sadly this isn't Mayberry and Aunt Bee isn't baking Andy a nice pumpkin pie for the holiday weekend.

If legal gun owners or collectors have no reason to be concerned, then why would you mind if law enforcement has a record or what you own? If someone breaks into your home and walks away, then law enforcement has a record of what was taken. The argument about what legally should be allowed to purchase is clearly a contentious one. I would back legislation to ban anything that can be used to cause the loss of life and injuries this or previous attacks before them caused. Whether that is bump stocks, silencers or semi-automatic weapons which can be converted to automatic operation.

It's clear most on this site are gun owners, I'm sure are all responsible owners, it's properly locked and used safely and responsibly. My problem is that someone just like you, no someone exactly like you, once a very responsible gun owner, well respected, a great guy according to all the neighbors, suddenly losses is job, his wife, his truck, his health, his self respect and then one night after a half a bottle of booze hatches a plan to make a statement and grab his 15 minutes of fame. Hopefully it's never someone we know, but it's always someone, someone knows.

Hope your indoor range has some good filtration, that stuff you breath will kill you.

Nebe 10-05-2017 07:33 PM

Gun collectors don't want anyone to know what they have in case something like the big "Obama is going to take our gun" scare really happens
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

JohnR 10-05-2017 07:41 PM

Obama and Hillary have been the best gun salespeople of all time

Nebe 10-05-2017 08:58 PM

Yep
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

wdmso 10-06-2017 03:43 AM

3% of Americans own half the country's 265 million guns
Between 300,000 and 600,000 guns are stolen each year.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ence/90858752/

3% of Americans.... controlling gun control in congress you call that democracy ? I call it money

wdmso 10-06-2017 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnR (Post 1129437)
Obama and Hillary have been the best gun salespeople of all time

And the NRA marketed that Fear expertly and Gun owners believed all of it and still believe .. there will be no more bump stocks to ban they will all be bought up by Saturday.. the ban if it happens will grandfather in the old ones

The NRA understands this so their PR stunt to support the ban has not credibility its good optics


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