Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1163104)

So now not only are they Socialists but they are also Communists.

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Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1163104)

So now not only are they Socialists but they are also Communists.
I believe that Republicans are effectively bringing us down the road to Communism and a totalitarian state, where the means of production and politics are controlled by the oligarchy.
Wealth and political power have been concentrated over the past 50 years in fewer people, who reduce the ability of the lower classes to organize and increase the power of corporations to the point where some are close to being monopolies.
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Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1163112)

now he believes Kim when he says he knew nothing about the beatings of Otto. Trump is a power hungry bully and he only wishes he had the power those three have to do as they see fit.

Now it appears he is overriding US intelligence officials and getting family members, who are CLEARLY influenced by foreign governments due to family financial ties, sorry I'm more afraid of the loose cannon running the country.

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles (Post 1163113)

But when Obama brought Cuba into the fold Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1163104)

So now not only are they Socialists but they are also Communists.

Which "they" are you referring to? There are openly avowed Socialists in the Democrat Party holding public office. There is a verified infiltration of the CPUSA in the Democrat Party. And there are the millions of Democrat voters who don't know about the latter and are partially favorable to the former.

I believe that Republicans are effectively bringing us down the road to Communism and a totalitarian state, where the means of production and politics are controlled by the oligarchy.

I don't know if you watched the video. It's only about 11 minutes and packed with documented Communist infiltrators working in the Democrat Party. Yet you do not acknowledge that. You do not discuss that. You deflect to another subject. You claim that Republicans are bringing us to Communism, and totally ignore that the Communists are supporting and working in the Democrat Party. This is a very strange and unconvincing line of reasoning. Actually, it's illogical.

Wealth and political power have been concentrated over the past 50 years in fewer people, who reduce the ability of the lower classes to organize and increase the power of corporations to the point where some are close to being monopolies.
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Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1163117)

When you frame your argument within a class structure you are in the realm of Marxist Speak. A free market basically has no well defined classes. It has flexibility and fluidity of movement within the economic hierarchy. A Marxist system has a well defined class structure in which there is no flexibility or movement--only entrenchment or extinction.

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Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1163119)

When people talk about how totalitarian we are, I always go back to the stereotypical Asian immigrant family who comes here with nothing, and in one generation, their kids are doctors. That happens all the time, when you are dealing with people who will never stop working for what they want.

A society that allows that kind of upward economic mobility, is free. It cannot be called otherwise. But it would be better not to have powerful people making decisions in their own best interests, rather than the collective best interest.

Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1163128)

If Capitalism is perfect and Socialism is deeply flawed, and therefor all means of production, assets, etc were owned by people and not the government, what incentive would private prisons have to reduce recidivism or even release people?
A person on the street is worth nothing to them, but everyone incarcerated is valuable.

Capitalism is a system. No system is perfect. It is also amoral. No matter how close to perfection it may be, it can be used for immoral purposes, depending on your version of morality. A version of capitalism can be used by authoritarian states as well as free market societies. It can be used by criminals, cartels, religious collectives as well as free private citizens to gather wealth for whatever purpose they wish.

Ultimately, "all means of production, assets, etc" as you put it, are owned by people whether ostensibly by government ("The People") or by individuals or corporate structures. Generally the closer to being owned by an individual an asset is, the more it will be cared for and made to flourish and function properly. Ownership by "The People" is the most inefficient and difficult to properly maintain since it comprises the greatest degree of disagreement among the owners. Nonetheless, for purposes of government, ownership by "The People" of various things and processes is part of establishing forms of government.

When government outsources a function to the private sector, the owner(s) of the business have to handle the asset as well as if it were their own invented and established business if they wish to maintain the contract. Free market, competition, if there is such, would motivate the contractor to do the job well. If private prisons created worse outcomes than government ones, the government would be foolish to keep them. Private prison contactors would be capitalistically wise to handle the assets in such ways that they would keep and perhaps expand the business. Contrary to your notion that "A person on the street is worth nothing to them, but everyone incarcerated is valuable", the persons on the street, "The People," are paying them for their service, and so they are of primary value. And the value of those being incarcerated diminishes if they are handled in ways that encourage recidivism so that "The People" become dissatisfied with the product.


I know I just confused Jim, but that is an example of capitalism that is currently occurring and I think it should bother us.
We live in a socialist democracy/republic (Madison and Marshall argued about democracy/republic hundreds of years ago, nobody won)

We may well be drifting toward socialism but we are not there yet. You may be confusing "welfare state" with "socialism." And we are still not yet a pure democracy. We are still a republic with a quasi-democratic system of electing politicians. Our system is sliding toward authoritarianism more so than socialism because of the unconstitutionally contrived administrative bureaucracy. But that can eventually, as it grows, and in not a short time, transform into actual socialistic, then communistic government.

and here are some examples of what that has gained us:
Public Libraries
Public Schools
Roads
Municipal sewer and water systems
Armed forces
Police departments
Public hospitals
Veterans Administration
Social Security
Medicaid
Public transportation
Public anything
Pretty horrible scary stuff, isn't it?
We have been doing it in this country since 1802 when the Corp of Engineers was permanently established and started mapping, building lighthouses and roads.
Trying to scare people with trigger words is typical of the current Trumplican Party.

Actually, we've been doing just about all those things, in various forms, well before 1802. People do good stuff. Free people do really good stuff. It doesn't require the massive administrative state that we've been growing since the past 70 or 80 years to do those things. Instead of being done more efficiently, economically, and better, by free market, capitalistic, and diverse local governance, most of those things have become cumbersome debt ridden albatrosses concocted by an expanding centralized government around the neck of less free people.

And you're really good at spewing memes, trigger words, and dog whistles, yourself. You're almost as good at it as is the Democrat Party. Or should I say the ever becoming Socialist, Communist, Democrat Party.


I think there is far greater chance of this government becoming totalitarian than communist,

I know you haven't noticed, but our government has progressively been becoming more totalitarian for quite some time. Being associated with and helped by Communists as the Dems have been, more and less and now more, since the 1930's, certainly doesn't slow down that process.

Trump certainly has great appreciation for all the totalitarians he meets and believes them more than his fellow Americans.
Putin on interference, the Saudis on Kashoggi, Kim Jong Un on Warmbier.

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1163133)

When murdering and raping immigrants fail to motivate the base... they move to crying about abortions and baby killing!! when that fails they jump to Socialists and Communists fear ... and when that doesn't work the media is the enemy when that gets old they start all over again

Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1163138)

Trump has great appreciation for a lot of things, especially American things. He seems to understand that negotiating with tyrants is not made easier by constantly, and only, insulting them. Your characterization of that being that he has an appreciation for them is a trigger, dog whistle, meme, meant to stoke anti-Trump hate.

Like, oh yeah, he was going to get any concession from Kim, or Putin, or the Saudis by constantly threatening and belittling them. The stick is good, but it needs to be accompanied by the carrot.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1163115)

I was very disappointed to hear Trump say that, it's absurd.

Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1163129)

Those Good Asians, statistically all second generation immigrants do better than native born, not just Asians.

The powerful people currently own the corporations and control the Congress and our government. All you had to do to see that is watch the Senate hearings with Big Pharma.

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1163143)

It's more than absurd, it shows how disconnected he is from any sense of empathy for anyone but himself.

Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1163139)

:D That's what used to be called "camp" or "campy." It's so ridiculous that it's actually funny.

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1163142)

How is unrelenting ball washing to be considered a carrot? Trump seems to think he's negotiating a real estate deal with his dad's money and connections. How's that working?

Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1163138)

Trump has great appreciation for a lot of things, especially American things. He seems to understand that negotiating with tyrants is not made easier by constantly, and only, insulting them. Your characterization of that being that he has an appreciation for them is a trigger, dog whistle, meme, meant to stoke anti-Trump hate.

Like, oh yeah, he was going to get any concession from Kim, or Putin, or the Saudis by constantly threatening and belittling them. The stick is good, but it needs to be accompanied by the carrot.

Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1163157)

Trump doesn’t have the balls to confront someone, that’s why he said Putin, the Saudis and Kim told me they didn’t and I believe them.

You seriously believe that or do you believe any price is acceptable as long as you get what you want.
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Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1163133)

When murdering and raping immigrants fail to motivate the base... they move to crying about abortions and baby killing!! when that fails they jump to Socialists and Communists fear ... and when that doesn't work the media is the enemy when that gets old they start all over again

Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1163158)

You really seem to be impressed with your ability to know what someone you've never met thinks. I "know" very little to nothing about what or who the inner Trump is. Outwardly, the little (filtered through various pro and con press and editorial coverage and personal or anecdotal stories) that I have heard or seen doesn't give me the picture of someone who lacks the balls to confront others. I thought that he would be crushed in the primary and presidential debates, but he pretty much dominated and mopped the floor with a lot of his opponents. I haven't seen any fear or reluctance in his face to face meetings with foreign leaders. I don't know what he really believes about what Putin, the Saudis and Kim told him, nor how much of what says about it is tactical pablum for public consumption rather than true reactions that he felt it better to play down. I have learned to disregard a lot what politicians say about their political maneuvers and wait for the results.

I am not unduly critical or dissatisfied with results, especially economic, and regulatory rollbacks and judicial picks. On the contrary, I'm happy with most of them.

BTW, getting back to the subject of this thread, did you watch the video, and if so, what do you think about it?

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1163162)

Or fear of Muslims ... real funny isn't it... put up by west Va republicans in their State house

Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1163164)

Keep believing, Trump is slowly destroying what’s been accomplished over the past 70 years, but as you’ve said you’re good with that.
I never watch your movies.
Find a transcript and I’ll read it.
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