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Originally Posted by detbuch
QUOTE=scottw;1030578]
It was an interesting read. I enjoyed and agreed with most of it, but some peculiar assumptions were annoying.
What is his definition of classical liberalism which reinforces reflections (whatever that means) of the same ideology of progressive "liberalism"? Were classical liberals "statists"?
I think it's more the definition of how liberty will/may be gained or maintained, one side supporting the notion that it must be gained/maintained through the will and benevolence of the State..."government as a means to expand liberty"...reflection might be a good choice of words....both would look in the mirror and see one who purports to expand "liberty"...the difference being how it all comes about...government to protect your liberty or government to provide your liberty... I think one side would prefer to argue the means to achieve "individual liberty" rather than what "individual liberty" really means....which leads to your next question
What is "true" human liberty? Does one "side" actually support "the autonomous individual"? If the rest of his article means that Locke supported the individual outside of society, I would disagree.
both would claim to.. although one would, in reality, support the automatomomous individual...he clearly discounts the argument that it can be gained/maintained through the modern liberal progressive ideology and to some extent "drift"... "Partly this is due to drift; but more worryingly, it is due to the increasingly singular embrace by many contemporary Americans - whether liberal or "conservative" - of a modern definition of liberty that consists in doing as one likes through the conquest of nature"
For the rest of the article, the large middle section, I agree with Dineen as he basically describes the progressive State. Somehow he throws Locke in with it and likens him to Hobbes. My opinion is that Locke is much closer to Dineen than to Hobbes, and certainly would advise us to "relearn the ancient virtue of self-government, and true liberty itself.
The Founders would.
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"the virtue of self-government, and true liberty itself"..I think this is his ultimate point and he attempts to explain how it's been lost, muddied and corrupted...I think he's Australian, maybe having a slightly different perspective looking in...