Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating - View Single Post - How important is the first guide size with braid?

Bob Senior · 04-19-2004, 11:24 AM

FWIW, I still go with a stripper guide that's larger or at least the same diameter as the spool I'll be using. There are a lot of people who feel that's a waste of $ and weight, that it doesn't matter. But, the only way I've found to minimize choking (and "hearing" the line singing through the guides and therefore causing drag) is to use large guides, especially the stripping guide, selected for the particular rod-reel combination that you have in mind. I realize that this means you can't just build an optimal distance rod and instead have to build the rod to fit the reel you'll use with it.

I found that Fuji CERMET guides produce the least drag, but at over $50 for a 30 mm light spinning guide, I haven't used them. I use SIC guides and they're expensive enough. But have had to use a Hardloy BSVLG50 for the stripper (because their largest HVSGHH is a 40mm (and that's too small), followed by High Frame SIC HVSG40HH, then H30, etc. down to smaller SVSG all purpose ones out to the tip.

What's worked well for me is to mount the reel and measure the angle of incidence to the rod--BTW, I have yet to find a mfr's rep who knows what this important angle actually is for any reel, so I measured it myself for all my reels. Then, conjuring up trigonometry I had during the 1950s, computed the choke point using the diameter of the spool as the base of an equilateral triangle and a zenith where the line hits the rod from the center of the spool, and so forth (see explanations of Fuji's "new guide concept".)

With rods less than around 10 feet, the ideal choke point is often past the rod tip (depending upon the reel's angle of incidence), a feature that will affect distance a little tiny bit. Reels with zero-degree angle of incidence to the rod (many Penn's for example), will cost a little bit of distance, because you have to "bend" the cone when you cast and that causes drag on the bottoms (sides away from rod) of guides. I use Shimanos because they have between a 2.5-degree (Sustain 6000) and 4-degree (Sustain 4000) angle of incidence and thus allow you to avoid "bending" the cone because the cone is naturally angled toward the rod. The Sustain 4000 has a 41.2-inch choke point; the 6000 has a 90-inch choke point (measured from the spool face). BTW, I use the same idea for my conventional rods, but use the width of the spool in place of the diameter of spinning spool--incidentally, the affect is that using traditional conventional rods with small guides causes a lot of unnecessary drag and costs a little bit of distance. Actually, I really think the ideal conventional guides would be rectangular, with the stripping guide a little shorter than the width of the spool and about an inch wide!!!

Once that cone of spiraling line coming off the spool is identified, I then use guides just a hair larger than the diameter of the cone on down the rod to the choke point. I also use a lot of them to reduce sagging between guides. From the choke point outward to the tip, I use the same sized guides (SVSG10s.)

With this setup, I hear no singing of line through guides (just a gentle whisper) and feel no drag, and think I get the max. distance out of the rod-reel combination, even though that doesn't mean a damned thing if there's no fish on the end!!!

Just my 2 cents worth.

04-19-2004, 11:24 AM	#7
Bob Senior Registered User iTrader: (0) Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Wakefield, RI Posts: 298	FWIW, I still go with a stripper guide that's larger or at least the same diameter as the spool I'll be using. There are a lot of people who feel that's a waste of $ and weight, that it doesn't matter. But, the only way I've found to minimize choking (and "hearing" the line singing through the guides and therefore causing drag) is to use large guides, especially the stripping guide, selected for the particular rod-reel combination that you have in mind. I realize that this means you can't just build an optimal distance rod and instead have to build the rod to fit the reel you'll use with it. I found that Fuji CERMET guides produce the least drag, but at over $50 for a 30 mm light spinning guide, I haven't used them. I use SIC guides and they're expensive enough. But have had to use a Hardloy BSVLG50 for the stripper (because their largest HVSGHH is a 40mm (and that's too small), followed by High Frame SIC HVSG40HH, then H30, etc. down to smaller SVSG all purpose ones out to the tip. What's worked well for me is to mount the reel and measure the angle of incidence to the rod--BTW, I have yet to find a mfr's rep who knows what this important angle actually is for any reel, so I measured it myself for all my reels. Then, conjuring up trigonometry I had during the 1950s, computed the choke point using the diameter of the spool as the base of an equilateral triangle and a zenith where the line hits the rod from the center of the spool, and so forth (see explanations of Fuji's "new guide concept".) With rods less than around 10 feet, the ideal choke point is often past the rod tip (depending upon the reel's angle of incidence), a feature that will affect distance a little tiny bit. Reels with zero-degree angle of incidence to the rod (many Penn's for example), will cost a little bit of distance, because you have to "bend" the cone when you cast and that causes drag on the bottoms (sides away from rod) of guides. I use Shimanos because they have between a 2.5-degree (Sustain 6000) and 4-degree (Sustain 4000) angle of incidence and thus allow you to avoid "bending" the cone because the cone is naturally angled toward the rod. The Sustain 4000 has a 41.2-inch choke point; the 6000 has a 90-inch choke point (measured from the spool face). BTW, I use the same idea for my conventional rods, but use the width of the spool in place of the diameter of spinning spool--incidentally, the affect is that using traditional conventional rods with small guides causes a lot of unnecessary drag and costs a little bit of distance. Actually, I really think the ideal conventional guides would be rectangular, with the stripping guide a little shorter than the width of the spool and about an inch wide!!! Once that cone of spiraling line coming off the spool is identified, I then use guides just a hair larger than the diameter of the cone on down the rod to the choke point. I also use a lot of them to reduce sagging between guides. From the choke point outward to the tip, I use the same sized guides (SVSG10s.) With this setup, I hear no singing of line through guides (just a gentle whisper) and feel no drag, and think I get the max. distance out of the rod-reel combination, even though that doesn't mean a damned thing if there's no fish on the end!!! Just my 2 cents worth.