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Old 11-01-2005, 03:45 PM   #15
SeaWolf
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 842
i have to say that it was in fact due to high surf this spring and large stroms right during the nesting season that the plovers did have a low productivity rate. this was especially true in mass. ri was hit hard as well, but some sections did very well considering.

sandman, you are partitially correct. you, and others, have to understand who your audience is when you refer to "they". yes, "they" probably do not like see all the beach traffic on the beaches. f&w will do what they need to, not matter if it is "they", "us", or whomever, that power is given to them by the endangered species act. states have to abide by those rules as long as any specie is on that list. it just happens to be the plover. now, who are "they"? "they" are the people that can afford to pay for that oceanside view. "they" can afford to donate towards the funds needed to keep the projects going in their area. "they" donate millions to adubon, green peace, etc. "they" walk the beaches daily and give reports to f&w. we need to beat "they" and you can only do that in numbers and facts. i have personally seen them beaten at their own game. we all have to understand that the birds are here and as long as they are on this list, we have to live by it. organizations such as mbba have done a lot to fight against beach closures. join these types of groups and learn about the bird first.

my one gripe for people that do complain about this is so many do not know the facts, but are quick to complain or voice an unresearched opinion on a board. sandman, you talked to a rep, so you are trying to learn and i respect that or post to "fit in". now, let's change the roles a little. take the cod. this fish is going thru another crash from what i have read and heard. could this fish be put on the endanger species act? who knows. who would have ever fathomed such a thing 100 years ago or several hundred years ago when this country was settled mainly due to cod trade. now, what impact would cod have if it were closed to all fishing? how many would then jump up in arms? how many of us would attend meetings learning the facts and trying to change the opinion of those making that closure statement before flipping out? or, how about the striped bass? what if it crashes again? now, i am only using the cod as an example we all seem to care about and is in fact in trouble.

the plover happens to have an impact on many of us as it is on the same beaches we fish. that could very easily have been any other bird, insect, etc. f&w is doing their job. it's the people that take that job that f&w do to their advantage and try to get all of us permanently off the beaches. that could happen with or w/o the help of the bird, they are just using that right now. everyone has to understand that and who the real enemy is. to simply blame f&w or the plover is naive and selfish thinking.

now, this is my personal experiences. some on the cape could have other real experiences, and i do not mean a sign closing off the beach as your own experiences. i mean attending meetings, fighting for access, challenging the property owners using this bird for their advantages.
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