[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Yes, free and independent people will do what is necessary and beneficial.

Are people any less free to start private or religious based institutions today? I think the real question is why these early colleges failed. One might ask if they were really delivering what the people needed.

Yes, the Feds joined (unconstitutionally--but that's ok) what the States were already starting. The States and local districts were, and are, still providing nearly all the money.

Starting well? Perhaps the feds saw a good thing and accelerated it's progress. I don't think there were more than a few state sponsored colleges before 1860. Good thing too because the industrial revolution was just getting going.

these are not going to be resolved by K-12 or higher education. If the educational institutions of the the conflicting civilizations have different philosophies--which is probably why they are conflicting civilizations--the resolution may take place in a different arena.

Not resolved by, but definitely influenced. As for different philosophies, there are many different conflicts for many different reasons.

Our private sector in conjunction with State run institutions have done this quite well

Via a lot of Federal grants mind you, one area of investment that the taxpayer has seen a good ROI.

The Federal "issue" was intended originally to be defense, foreign relations, and interstate commerce, the last of which has so distortedly been "interpreted" that it covers all of life. If the Federal Government isn't checked in its intrusion in State affairs (probably too late) then, indeed, all issues will be national issues.

The evolution of the global economy has shown that our behavior as a nation is quite important. The Federal issue was smaller in scope as many of the Founding Fathers didn't believe the US would or should be running a global economy...which we still do today. Could they even imagine what the US Navy does to control shipping lanes around the entire planet? I don't think so...

And Federal loans, grants, and tax credits will ensure that it stays expensive.

A lot of this is private institutions setting the pace. More access to education creates more competition.

Unfortunately, our education industry has failed to the extent that a great many do need the chalkboard to understand why.

Not why, but a solution perhaps.

The benefits would be validated if the Federal Guv could have stayed at a low key, well directed "assistance" level" with which it started. But its intrusion has grown too large and undirected. Aid is no longer for "useful" degrees, but for whatever your heart desires. And its money has a powerful influence against the true diversity of thought. Not to mention the pernicious choosing of winners and losers in the Federal give-away lottery which is growing at an unsustainable rate. Let the people keep money that is now spent to cull votes. Let the States compete for business, for educational excellence, for good, free market, constitutional governance, and let the Feds maintain a powerful national defence with an open but guarded relation with the rest of the world, and we might have what the founders envisioned.

Also there's the evolution of education where a college degree is the minimum for most non-trade skill work. Hell, even a MS or MBA isn't considered that special any more...to a large degree because of the rapid advancement of the global economy and technology.

We're competing against a larger and smarter global workforce. Yes the corporate world can respond by becoming more global (more access to markets and sources of revenues) but that doesn't mean our people will be the source of their productivity, not if they're not ready. I don't expect any state to think at this level.

America rose to dominance with military and productive might. The Great institutions of higher learning are a benefactor of that might. And the influence of collective, anti-capitalist thought beginning to dominate those institutions, may be a Trojan Horse to "fundamentally change" this country.

One could also argue that without an educated people would we have been able to harness our resources and geographic fortune to rise to such military and productive might? The Federal land grant program was precisely to encourage such industrial education versus a more classical one. The rise of the liberal arts college isn't a Trojan horse but rather a blessing of our strength that bolsters the sciences.

-spence