[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

That's fair, Johnny. I only failed to mention the factual support because I assumed it was common knowledge.

According to everyone with knowledge, the first break in the case that led to Bin Laden's death, was intelligence obtained from Khalid Shiek Mohammed after he was waterboarded at Guantanimo Bay. Now, no one can prove that we wouldn't have gotten the information, eventually, from other means. But the fact is, the first break was the revelation of the identity of an Al Queda courier, and KSM only gave that up after he was waterboarded. Bush established the waterboarding aproach, and he set up the terrorist facility at Guantanimo. Obama is on record as being vehemently opposed to both of these things.

Appreciate the reply and agree on the facts you post... however, I disagree that "establishing the waterboarding approach" means that Bush played a large part in killing OBL. It was reported that since 2008, there's been a significant amount of surveillance and discover missions. Authorization of such tactical missions in another country's sovereign territory typically can come from no one other than the President and his staff.

"he did have two wars that he started to hold his attention"

Oh, Bush started the war in Afghanistan? Johnny, we sometimes disagree on the interpretation of facts, but we usually agree on the facts. That is the stupidest thing you have said on this forum. The Taliban started the war in Afghanistan when they gave support and safe haven for Al Queda to plan the 09/11 attacks. Maybe you aren't familiar with the events of 09/11.

I must be getting stupider and stupider then because you've said that at least a half dozen times. (yeah, opening the door wide there)

Johnny, given that the anniversary of Pearl Harbor was this week, let me ask you a similar question. Do you think that FDR started the war with Japan in WWII? 2,402 Americans were killed at Pearl Harbor (I think). Many more were killed on 09/11.

I was in Iraq with the USMC. Bush and other western leaders gave Saddam Hussein all kinds of chances to avoid war (I had ample reason to follow these events pretty closely). All Saddam had to do was comply with the UN resolutions which ended the first Gulf War, another war of aggression which Saddam initiated by the way. That we fired the first shot in Iraq iasn't necessarily the same thing as saying that we started the war (no one who has ever been in close-quarter combat would ever say there's any reason to ever let someone else fire the first shot). Hussein kept kicking out the weapons inspectors, and in my opinion, it seems like the prudent thing would be to assume that he was trying to hide something.

Pearl Harbor was a nation-sanctioned attack on our country and an obvious act of war by an obvious party.
9/11 was an act of war by a terrorist network who did not have any directly sponsored/authorization to attack the US. Yes, the Taliban turned a blind eye to OBL's network.
Iraq had *literally* absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. Not a single thing.

Pearl Harbor is not the same as 9/11. Neither Pearl Harbor nor 9/11 are the same as the invasion of Iraq. You're comparing Apples to Oranges.

Very few people spoke against that war until it became politically convenient. What do you think of liberal politicians who voted to support the war initially, and then when public opinion eroded, these same politicians started acting like they were always opposed to it? If that's not a slap in the face to people like me who bled over there, and officers like me who lost kids under our command (I lost 2), I don't know what is.

Very few people spoke out because of the "detailed, accurate intelligence" that was presented for Iraq's sponsorship of terrorism and "advanced WMD programs". "Facts" which have been consistently proven false.

Listen, please don't take any of this as an attack on the Men and Women who risk their lives every day for us. As a country, we are eternally indebted to the work that our servicemen like yourself have done. Hell, in 2004, I tried to sign up for OCS and was medically declined. Went through a whole appeals process and the Marines ultimately said no.

At times, I'll vehemently disagree with your opinions and comments, but there is certainly a deeply-seated appreciation and gratitude for your service.