[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Foxnews is sayong 20. Let's assume it's 40. Two Nave SEALs held them off for 7 hours. Why? Because we are much better at this than they are. I was in the conventional forces, and we knew that in a toe-to-toe fight, 2-1 or 3-1 odds were no big deal. For Special Forces, like the guys that Obama's team refused to send in, odds of 5-1 or 6-2 are no sweat. These guys just are not human, especially in a chaotic situation.

Completely agree they're the best but this also wasn't a Seal mission. It was a security mission not designed to repel this kind of attack.

Also, watch the Fox special report on the timeline. It's got a ton of biased reporting but the timeline portion I think was pretty good.

Spence, why don't you stick to things you know something about, like...like...well, not infantry tactics.

Fair enough, how about some of the guys who were calling the shots then:

General Martin Dempsey

He received a commission as an Armor officer upon graduation from the United States Military Academy in 1974. As a company-grade officer, he served in 1st Squadron, 2d Armored Cavalry Regiment as the S-1 OIC. He went on to be the Executive Officer of the 3rd Brigade 3rd Armored Division during Operation Desert Shield/Storm. He then commanded the 4th Battalion of the 67th Armored Regiment "Bandits" from 1992–1995 in the 1st Armored Division in Friedberg, Hesse, Germany.[5]
In June 2003, then Brigadier General Dempsey assumed command of 1st Armored Division. He succeeded Ricardo S. Sanchez who was promoted to command V Corps. Dempsey's command of the 1st Armored Division lasted until July 2005 and included 13 months in Iraq, from June 2003 to July 2004. While in Iraq, 1st Armored Division, in addition to its own brigades, had operational command over the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment and a brigade of the 82nd Airborne Division; the command, called "Task Force Iron" in recognition of the Division's nickname, "Old Ironsides", was the largest division-level command in the history of the United States Army.[6]
It was during this time that the U.S. intervention in Iraq changed dramatically as Fallujah fell to Sunni extremists and supporters of Muqtada Sadr built their strength and rose up against American forces. Then Major General Dempsey and his command assumed responsibility for the Area of Operations in Baghdad as the insurgency incubated, grew, and exploded. General Dempsey has been described by Thomas Ricks in his book "Fiasco": "In the capital itself, the 1st Armored Division, after Sanchez assumed control of V Corps, was led by Gen. Martin Dempsey, was generally seen as handling a difficult (and inherited) job well, under the global spotlight of Baghdad."
On March 27, 2007, Dempsey was promoted from commander of Multi-National Security Transition Command-Iraq, to be reappointed as a lieutenant general and assigned as deputy commander of U.S. Central Command, MacDill Air Force Base, Florida.
On February 5, 2008, Dempsey was nominated to head the Seventh United States Army/U.S. Army, Europe, and was nominated for promotion to four-star general upon Senate approval.
On March 11, 2008, Dempsey's commander, Admiral William J. Fallon, retired from active service. U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates accepted this as effective on March 31. Dempsey took over command as acting commander CENTCOM.
On March 13, 2008, Dempsey was confirmed by the United States Senate as Commander, Seventh United States Army/U.S. Army, Europe.[7]
On December 8, 2008, Dempsey took command of United States Army Training and Doctrine Command.[8]
On January 6, 2011, Defense Secretary Robert Gates announced that he would nominate General Dempsey to succeed General George Casey as the Army Chief of Staff.[9]
On February 8, 2011, Gates announced that President Barack Obama nominated Dempsey to be the 37th Chief of Staff of the United States Army.[10]
On March 3, 2011, Dempsey testified before the United States Senate Committee on Armed Services for reappointment to the grade of general and to be the 37th Chief of Staff of the United States Army.[11]
On March 15, 2011, the U.S. Senate Committee on Armed Services affirmatively reported Dempsey's nomination to serve as the 37th Chief of Staff of the United States Army to the floor of the Senate.[12] On March 16, 2011, the Senate confirmed Dempsey's nomination by unanimous consent.[13]
On April 11, 2011, Dempsey was officially sworn in as 37th Chief of Staff of the United States Army at a ceremony at Fort Myer.
With Admiral Mike Mullen set to retire as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in September 2011, President Obama needed to select his replacement. The Vice-Chairman, Marine General James Cartwright, who was initially believed to be the front runner for the job, had fallen out of favor among senior officials in the Defense Department. Obama administration officials revealed on May 26, 2011, that the President would nominate Dempsey to the post of Chairman.[14] In August 2011 General Dempsey was confirmed by unanimous consent to succeed Admiral Mike Mullen as the next Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
He was officially sworn in as 18th Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on October 1, 2011, succeeding Admiral Michael Mullen.

General Ham

Ham served as an enlisted Infantryman in the 82nd Airborne Division before attending John Carroll University in Cleveland, Ohio. He was commissioned as 2nd Lieutenant through the Army Reserve Officers' Training Corps (Army ROTC) in the Infantry as a Distinguished Military Graduate in 1976. He later received his master's degree in National Security and Strategic Studies from the U.S. Naval War College in Newport, Rhode Island as well as graduating from several military schools including the Infantry Officer Basic Course, the Armor Officer Advanced Course, the College of Naval Command and Staff of the U.S. Naval War College and the U.S. Air Force Air War College. He is a member of the John Carroll University ROTC Hall of Fame. He and his wife, Christi, are both John Carroll University graduates.
Ham's early assignments included service at Fort Knox, Kentucky and tours of duty in Italy and Germany. After graduating from the Armor Officers Advanced Course, he was a Recruiting Area Commander in Lima, Ohio. In 1984, he served with a joint service unit in support of the Olympic Games in Los Angeles.
From 1984 until 1989, Ham served as Assistant Inspector General, then as Battalion S-3 and Executive Officer with the Opposing Force at the National Training Center, Fort Irwin, California. He attended the College of Naval Command and Staff, graduating with distinction in 1990, and was then assigned to the US Army Infantry School at Fort Benning, Georgia.
He served a tour as an advisor with a Saudi Arabian National Guard Brigade in Riyadh then returned to Fort Benning, where he was the executive officer for the Infantry School. Ham commanded the 1st Battalion, 6th Infantry in Vilseck, Germany including a six month tour with the United Nations Protection Forces in the Republic of Macedonia. Following battalion command, he was the Senior Observer/Controller of the Timberwolf Team at the Combat Maneuver Training Center, Hohenfels, Germany.
He graduated from the Air War College in 1997 then returned to Germany where he served as G-3, then Chief of Staff, 1st Infantry Division. From 1999 to 2001 he commanded the 29th Infantry Regiment at Fort Benning, then served as Deputy Director, J-8, United States Central Command in Tampa, Florida and Qatar. Ham was assigned as the Deputy Commanding General for Training and Readiness, I Corps at Fort Lewis, Wash. in August 2003. In January 2004, he assumed command of Multinational Brigade (Task Force Olympia) – North in Mosul, Iraq serving there until February 2005. During his time in Iraq General Ham suffered Posttraumatic stress disorder, caused from attending the aftermath of a suicide bombing. He later sought treatment for his condition and publicly encouraged other soldiers to do the same.
Returning from Iraq, General Ham served as the Deputy Director for Regional Operations, J-3, on The Joint Staff. General Ham assumed command of the 1st Infantry Division at Fort Riley, Kansas in August 2006 and served as the Commanding General until July 2007, returning to The Joint Staff as Director for Operations, J-3. On August 28, 2008, General Ham became the 34th Commander of the United States Army Europe headquartered at Campbell Barracks, Heidelberg, Germany.
The United States Senate, in November 2010, confirmed General Ham’s nomination to become the next Commander of U.S. Africa Command, headquartered at Kelley Barracks, Stuttgart, Germany.[2] He assumed the post on March 8, 2011.
General Ham is in command of US forces enforcing the Libyan no-fly zone, along with Admiral Samuel J. Locklear.[citation needed] Described as "in charge of the coalition effort", General Ham on March 21, 2011 "said there would be coalition airstrikes on Colonel Qaddafi’s mobile air defenses and that some 80 sorties – only half of them by the United States – had been flown on Monday."[3] Admiral Locklear, aboard the flagship Mount Whitney, has tactical command of the Operation Odyssey Dawn joint taskforce.[4] "General Ham also said he had “full authority” to attack the regime’s forces if they refused to comply with President Obama’s demands that they pull back from Ajdabiya, Misrata and Zawiya," according to one report. Earlier, he said that the United States was not working with the Libyan rebels. “Our mission is not to support any opposition forces,” Ham said by video feed to the Pentagon from his headquarters in Stuttgart.[3]
General Ham has stated (in an online Washington Post article by Greg Miller and Craig Whitlock, posted on October 1, 2012) that, as a result of Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb's overtaking and capturing more territory in Mali in Africa, and possessing arms from Libya after the Libyan civil war which overthrew Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, there is the possibility of the U.S. assisting (not leading) counterterror operations done by other countries. A more radical step would be the use of drones.[5]

Hacks right

At an absolute minimum, you at least deploy some troops in choppers, and have them hold a few miles out, while you try to figure out if you can send them in. That way, once you getthje green light, they are 2 minutes out. If the forces are an hour away, it makes zero tactical sense to leave themthat far out. They could have been hovering the ocean (Benghazi is on the coast), it's not like they'd have to wait over enemy-occupied territory.

I don't get it.

The timeline and official comments suggest they thought the attack was waning and support from Tripoli was arriving soon.

All this bluster about gunships and such is a bit much when you think about it. To deploy such force would have certainly led to significant collateral damage against a ~40 person insurgent force. You might be able to justify it with good intel but it would seem as though that wasn't the case.

Remember 30,000 Benghazi's are reported to have protested the attacks holding pictures of the dead Ambassador and then stormed the headquarters of the Islamist group!

Another under reported part of this story (I didn't even see it until today) is that after the attack the government has moved to disarm unofficial militia groups with broad public support.

Libya Disbands ?Illegitimate? Militias - By Mary Casey and Jennifer Parker | The Middle East Channel

As I've said, there's legitimate questions to be asked if we did enough to keep our people safe. Even Obama has admitted mistakes were made. This should be the focus of review and changes made to personnel or policy where appropriate, but not the petty election witch hunt you so dream of undermining the Commander and Chief.

-spence