Originally Posted by wdmso
you dont want them anywhere near your healthcare until you 65 or cant afford it then you'll want them.. like those who hate the government until a tornado or hurricane wipes them out and all you hear is where is the government
Health CARE was available to everyone (even non citizens and illegals) before Obamacare. It was far more inconvenient for those without insurance because they had to get it through the emergency room. Supposedly, the rest of us, the insured, had to pay for the uninsured visitors to emergency. So, Obamacare was supposed to relieve the rest of us of that cost which would help to lower premiums. Obamacare did just the opposite. It raised the cost to the rest of us, raising our premiums in order to pay for the previously uninsured who now were insured at our cost by subsidies instead of covering only their emergency visits. Government, as usual, raised the cost of health care by creating a larger source of payment as well as forcing insurance companies to cover far more than they had for everyone, even far more than was necessary.
People survived being "wiped out" by tornados and hurricanes before government stepped in to save them. Communities were more tightly nit and helped each other out. And it was cheaper because big government money was not available to tap into. Government "help," of course, is more expensive. It has, and is more than willing to spend, more money. So prices go up.
The more government "helps," the more not only is the help more expensive, people depend less on one another and communities become fragmented. Folks need and depend on each other less. The government is there to "help" them. Most Americans don't really know or associate with others a few houses, or a street or two, away. We have our own individual bubbles. The causes for that are various, but government "help" and regulations and policies and mandates has its fingers in that pie chart of reasons.
And the notion that there are those who "hate the government" is a red herring. There are very few who totally hate the government. Most of us like it when it does a good job of doing what it's supposed to do. But when it takes on the responsibility of doing more than it should, and places the burden of paying for that on productive taxpayers, that golden goose will lay some verbal turds at the doorstep of Big G.
every one should get the same heath care its not a product its not a car so if you can afford a Ferrari and I can afford and used Yugo then try to make the argument well there both cars ....
Why should everyone get the same health care? How is that even possible? Some doctors are better than others. Even in single government payer systems there is discrimination and rationing and choices of who gets care instead of others. And some get it sooner than others. And some die waiting.
And why does a thing not being a product mean that everyone should "get" exactly that thing without variation. There are many different services (rather than products) which are sold in different quantities and qualities depending on how much one is willing or able to pay for them. And, anyway, how is health care not a product? Is it not a product of individual and team efforts. Isn't its quality dependent on the ability and attention and the tools that those individuals and teams have and use? Doesn't good health care produce a healed, cured, healthy person in the place of a sick or disabled one, being the product of those individual and team efforts?
And why should someone who has the money to pay for the best health care right away rather than waiting for others who don't have enough money to pay someone who is willing to provide that care NOW for those who can afford it rather than waiting in line for those who can't afford it, or be denied altogether because the health service thinks the costs are too exorbitant to provide for everyone? Aren't some such exceptions already allowed in some single payer systems?
And if the government can mandate that everyone must have the same health care, why can't it mandate that everyone must buy the same car? And why can't the government be the single payer for all those same cars?
U.S. Health-Care System Ranks as One of the Least-Efficient
It is much easier to be "efficient" if all services and costs are the same for everyone and all payments are made by the same payer. That sort of uniform efficiency produces a more uniform quality (not completely since different doctors, hospitals, are better than others, etc.). So there is no important variation from best to worst as there is in a market based individual payer system with discernable variations in quality, and so forth.
The more efficient uniform system is better for many and worse for many. But there is no inherent "fairness" in it. There is no "everyone pulling their weight" in it. Some pull the weight for others. And it discourages the striving for excellence that getting something better as a reward for harder and better effort encourages.
America is number 50 out of 55 countries that were assessed.
It
The U.S. rated especially poor in equality of coverage. The report found that 44 percent of low-income Americans have trouble gaining access to coverage compared with 26 percent of high-income Americans. The numbers for the U.K. are 7 percent and 4 percent, respectively. Not unrelated, the U.K.’s National Health Service was deemed the best health care system, just as it was in 2014. “In contrast to the U.S., over the last decade the U.K. saw a larger decline in mortality amenable to health care than the other countries studied,” the report reads.
As in "efficiency," "equality" is not a mark of being better for all. It is better for many than it could be and worse for many than it could be. Generally speaking, "equality" spreads mediocrity.
I'm guessing that the decline in mortality due to better health care is promoted at the poor end. Probably the wealthier and middle portions are not expanding life span because of "equality" in health care (they most likely would have had the "equal" care or better in a variable market system). As well, in general, life spans have expanded in more advanced countries over time due to improvements in food distribution and production as well as more and more medicines for various ailments. And most of that has been due to capitalistic market forces. "Spreading the wealth" (and the health care) requires the wealth and care to be "produced" in the first place. And the most "efficient" and productive way has been done by market capitalism.
but again facts matter to some and to other not so much ... how can Single-payer be worse
Why do Americans love Medicare but hate the idea of a single-payer healthcare system? It doesn't make sense.
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