[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

It would have been exciting, and the "news" loves excitement.

I'd say the audience loves excitement, the news is just a business after all.

I agree with those who think the Muslim response, if as threatened or predicted, would have been more idiotic, lawless, and to be pleaded against than the tiny group of book burners. And the Muslim response should not have been merely predicted by Muslim leaders, but they should have been the ones to demand that such responses not occur.

It looks like the Muslim response to the issue was comparable to the actual Muslims responding. Western Muslims were quite rational on the issue, while poor, uneducated Muslims in war torn areas were more likely to react with violence. I think 10 have died in Afghanistan today just trying to hold an election.

Islamic violence is regularly condemned by Muslim leadership around the world, although I'm not sure many are listening. With the current climate of Islamophobia, speaking out can get you whacked from either side.

If perhaps the most noteworthy Imam in the US and trusted adviser to our Presidents can't get a fair shake, why would they?

No, it implies that the Islamic position re America is not necessarily unified, but more unified than our opinions of who we are. That's, admittedly, just a guess based on the bulk of the "reports" that we get, and the supposition that Islamic societies are not as diverse as ours is. I should have excluded American Muslims from my statement since I view them as part of the disunified perceptions we have of ourselves--which is the real point of my response to your saying "it's about staying true to who we are."--and which you didn't answer.

This is a good question, but not one that I think can be easily answered in a few paragraphs.

I would say that in the US there is a common bond (The American Dream) which isn't exclusive to any one group. Are there Muslims in the US who would take the Koran over the Constitution? Sure, but I'll bet I can find a lot more who would do the same with the Bible.

As for unification of Islamic positions, you'd have to break this out into issues to perhaps understand it. Palestine is certainly an issue with general Islamic consensus, but you'll also get a similar level of support from many Western nations and even liberals in the US.

Perhaps the biggest issue in Islam today is the role of the woman. I'm not sure even this is very unified throughout Islam, and is very heavily influenced by local conditions, especially in the Third World.

My real implication is we are divided in this country, maybe more so than ever, and staying true to who we say we are will result in a different true for a different we--even to the point of being diametrically opposed. Vive la diversity.

I'd agree the level of division is quite alarming. A very real threat to the American Dream is when people question if it really applies to everyone.

And the we that oppose the GZ Mosque or wish to burn Korans may disagree fundamentally with the we who oppose them. But they don't disagree on a constitutional basis.

Sure...

There might be some political game from American Muslims, various immigrants, and those who think it's mean spirited and un-American to oppose the mosque. And there is, as you say, the big possibility of backlash pain. But there would be more political gain to oppose the Koran burners as typical right wing nuts.

I didn't see many looking to gain from support of the Mosque issue, and considering the public sentiment it would be hard to see the benefits. I did see many on the Right quick to pretend there was parity between the two events though, sort of a "well if one's wrong the others wrong" logic that doesn't make a lot of sense, at least to me. It did seem to make some feel better about opposing the Mosque though.

I don't think the book burners were thinking of the poor Afghan kid who wouldn't participate in a protest, but they might have been thinking about the thousands, maybe tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of whackos who would protest.

Give the kid a few more years.

I don't think it's been all that clear. What you may consider politicization may be an honest opinion of a different minded we.

To some degree this is certainly true, although with the Mosque issue it seems to be a situation of political exploitation.

This project was announced last December, reported in the NYTimes and didn't cause a ruckus. The Laura Ingraham interview with the Imam's wife (in the John Stewart video) wasn't so noteworthy because it was an attack on Fox News as you seemed to suggest, it was that in December even a bomb throwing pundit remarked that "I can't find many people who really have a problem with it" and "I like what you're trying to do."

When the project was approved what followed was an all out onslaught of anti-Islam propaganda characterizing the center as a temple to the 9/11 hijackers. Then the story rapidly became a big national issue.

What changed? Well, the facts around the purpose of the planned center didn't seem to change. It was the controversy being pushed from the fringe that was different, and this was the first glimpse of the issue that most Americans got. Hence my remarks that this story isn't really about the Mosque, but rather the controversy surrounding it.

I wouldn't call this a simple difference of opinion when the opinion seems to have been manufactured. That's political...

What laws have been broken? Which lives have been taken?

For our critics it's as simple as those outside the US believing we don't follow the same rules we expect of others over the years. Be it protecting Israel at the UN for decades, claiming we respect life but killing tens and tens of thousands of civilians when it's in our interest, ignoring human rights when countries have things we need, saying we don't torture and treat prisoners with respect...then abu Graib, renditions etc...

That these things may be technically legal or suit our interests at the time isn't really the point. What should be considered is the impact they may have whether we like it or not...instead we get "you're perfect, just keep shopping".

So WE have different perspectives on Dem stones. Over the past several years, it has appeared to this we that the Dems have exercised more balls, in every way, than the Republicans, who have so often acted like eunuchs. I think the latter's fear of "main stream" press has contributed to their castration.

I don't think Republicans fear the press as much as they do their own party. As they say...Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line

-spence