[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

If, as you say, most people are spiritual to some degree (which is why I assumed that you see spirituality--as you see most everything--as existing on a spectrum--that spectrum being degrees of spirituality)then where do "God" and "individuals" exist on this spectrum? Is the spectrum larger than God? Does God know everything, or does God merely have a "perspective" that differentiates from the individual's "perspective," these both existing on a spectrum of perspectives?

I think individuals could fall on multiple spectrum. God could be considered an absolute (it either is or isn't) but there's certainly a lot of variation on what God is and how it should be interpreted. Additionally the individual determines how inward or outward facing their spirituality (or lack there of) is and how it influences others.

Just because there's variability doesn't mean that a common set of ethics aren't present that bind people together. What I find interesting is that often when people say "Judeo/Christian ethics" it's not meant in a religious context. A good question for God would be if they see this as a positive development or not.

Ah, again the "imperfect person" (which is either a redundancy--all persons being imperfect by nature--or an implication that perfect persons exist. But, then, perfection is an absolute). If spirituality is a guide for the imperfect, is it a sort of an aid to pseudo-perfection--a sort of manufactured perfection?

You could say the same for certain mood altering drugs. Perfection may be an absolute, but absolutely what? Perhaps perfection could be described as a condition of balance, but that's quite vague and could have side effects.

But if spirituality exists on a spectrum and is not absolute, how can it be a guide? Do all portions give equal or good results? Ah . . . right . . . the centrist, mainstream portion (if you can determine what that is), the clean spirits.

A compass doesn't tell me where I am but it sure indicates which direction I'm going. As to results, that's impossible to answer without first defining perfection...that could take a while

I see--she's just throwing out some spiritual sounding babble that no-one need take seriously--that she welcomes the prayers which keep the spirits clean around her and O but, not to be divisive, atheists needn't worry that religion or spirituality might creep into her husband's policies.

I think it's quite reasonable to think MO is not an atheist and believes in the Declaration of Independence. This doesn't seem like much of a radical position and it would seem as though she wasn't going much deeper.

But it's also the point of the OP. Had Sarah Palin made a like statement in a similar neutral context I don't think people would have even noticed or cared for that matter. She's building a little empire through irritation and titillation, it's just not her MO these days.

Which time tested beliefs of the somewhat conservative collective people are Obama and the Dems conserving?

The comment wasn't meant to be divisive.

The true center of our political spectrum has been the original Constitution which was created by the imperfect but wise enough founders who, no doubt, called on the clean spirits to help them write the simplest document based on human nature, which would assure optimal individual feedom within the bounds of that nature. If, as Obama has stated he wishes to do, that foundation is changed from a prohibition against what government can do to the "people" to a command of what it must do for them, human nature will follow the path of least resistance, and a country driven by the natural urge to struggle to be free and strong to survive will be replaced by the natural urge to find comfort in the easiest way of receiving it with the least effort--dependence. Of course, when Atlas shrugs, the unnatural house of cards will tumble.So far, human nature has not changed.

This would be a fair warning if Obama was a dyed in the wool socialist, but this seems more of political straw man than what we've seen from his policies. Has Obama proposed anything not seen previously, or perhaps ideas even supported by conservatives throughout history? One would think this is also part of who we are, and might include some elements also deserving of conservation.

Gotta paint.

-spence