Thread: crickets...
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Old 11-07-2017, 01:37 AM   #64
detbuch
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Stripers View Post
To Detbuch,

I'd never suggest we don't learn from the past.

What have you learned from the past?

I'd also say evolution always wins it's undeniable, to live in the past without change in order to evolve is just ignorant.

Evolution doesn't require change. It is change. Changes and their direction depend on the mix. Mass shootings are evolutionary results. Dictatorships are evolutionary results. Revolutions are evolutionary actions. These are all the results of conflicts and positive or negative interactions. For evolution to occur, there must be those conflicts, interactions, wars, among the mix of things. And the things must be of some fundamental nature. For there to be change, there has to be a foundation from which change occurs. When there is a change in the foundation, new species "evolve." So far, humans, as we know them, are fundamentally the same as in the Founders time; are the same as in the annals of recorded history. We have not evolved into something else yet. The notion that we can regulate out of existence conflict, war, or interactions we disapprove of, is what's ignorant. If we could, that would be the end of evolution. It is in our fundamental nature to resist regulation that stifles our individual portion of that spectrum of human possibility.

That's why the Constitution is such an evolutionary friendly foundation of government. It allows the greatest scope of freedom to evolve in various directions with the least friction and destruction among individual differences. Of course, it is evidently a portion of our nature to protect ourselves from intrusion into the freedoms it provides. Yet there are those who impose that portion of their human nature which seeks personal satisfaction on others against their will. Some, even to the point of ruling nations. Some, just warring on neighbors. Government restriction against people's ability to protect themselves against either type of war, stifles the freedom of the many to evolve in their preferred and individual way in order to stifle the license of a few. It is anti-evolutionary. The greater the restrictions are in scope and power, the less "peaceful" can there be evolution.

Changing the foundation of the Constitution by interpreting it to mean other than what it does, and to mean that freedom (not license) is limited, restricts peaceful evolution, and evolves into adversary conflict, which can evolve into more authoritarian, less evolutionary government.


I only suggest that current events might suggest arms of mass destruction might be better off left in the hands of the military. You suggest I'm fearful, yet you want your AR's to be ready to militia up if the government goes dictator on you; I don't fear that at all you own that fear.

I see. You don't fear anything. You just make suggestions. Me too. I suggest that current events indeed suggest that the world, as always, is a dangerous place. And I suggest that politicians like Schumer, Hillary, Sanders, Warren (who aren't going to turn limit themselves), haven't made it less dangerous, nor can they. You can suggest yourself into whatever suggestions will save a few lives. Although, I haven't heard any suggestions from you how to do that, it sounds pitiful enough to be worthy of great suggestion.


Modern day militia really; that's the argument you own and as usual it's the final 2nd amendment argument; heard it and read it on every thread that's similar. It's the same old argument, 2nd amendment, we have the right, I get it; but is it reasonable today?

Yes. It is reasonable, and more so, rational. And the militia meant (still does in spite of authoritarians attempt to make it a formal government unit) is the people. And the same old argument is the entire Constitution and freedom vs despotism be it soft or dictatorial.

And the argument you own is some general notion that today is different than yesterday because of evolution. No reason or rationale other than some undefined evolution into some undefined difference.


It made 110% sense then and there, I'd be standing and giving the founding fathers a standing ovation for those 27 words, but times change and only idiots don't accept that fact.

In what fundamental way has human nature changed? "Times" constantly change. So fast now that government, law, that has to suit constant change would not be possible. Laws and systems of government which are fundamentally based on "times" is for "idiots."

Please don't insult me by giving me that BS argument that the only reasonable change is to ban all guns, what a crock of crap that statement is. I have no issue with guns, or the right to bear them, but if the nut job didn't have access to the AR type rifle, how many lives would have been lost or saved.

Don't insult me by misquoting me. I said "The only gun law, sensible or not, that would save THOUSANDS of lives a year would be to outlaw, worldwide, the production of guns. So far, the THOUSANDS of gun deaths in this country aren't caused by using AR types. Most "nut jobs" use hand guns. Or maybe you don't consider criminal killers to be "nut jobs." You only have an issue with nut jobs and AR's. The thousands of more lives taken by hand guns or non AR's are just not as much of a problem as the AR types for you. We shouldn't, therefor, ban hand guns. Just ban AR types.

That sounds like a "crock of crap" as you so nicely put it.


If you think you and a hand full of your friends armed with AR assault rifles in your town and the next one over are going to make a bit of difference, then I want some of what you are smoking. The fact that you actually think that will come to be necessary makes you the guy with the fear factor and frankly i choose to have a much more optimistic view on where we as a society can go.

OK. So you don't fear AR's. You just worry about them. As in when you said "I'd be worried about someone just like anyone on this board with access to these types of weapons, with a life changing experience putting them in a very dark place with a need to vent that anger."

Of course, there is no need to worry enough about someone with life changing experiences in a dark place having an illegal handgun, at least not to the point of banning handguns.

And what makes you special because you have an "optimistic view on where we as a society can go." What makes you think that I don't have an optimistic view of where it CAN go. Sure, I have an optimistic view of where it can go. I'm optimistic about some of the ways it is now going. You said "Do I like our government today, not in the least," There's a lot about it that I don't like. But I still like its foundation more than any other.



Don't mix my opinion of Trump with this argument, do I agree with the way Trump is governing, absolutely not; but that has nothing to do with this thread.

You said I was afraid of big government. Trump is the President of big government. How is your concern, or worry, (since you say you don't fear) about the damage to the country that he will supposedly do, how is that concern not akin to what you accuse me of in this thread?

Don't mix my believe in on environmental changes being a larger threat then many believe; again it has nothing to do with this thread.

Where do you get off telling me what I can mix? That was a sarcastic fictitious (on my part) take on the "numbers" killed issue that you guys keep bringing up about AR's. Don't particularly care if you didn't like it. And I made it something to do with this thread. For fun.

You fear the government and more regulations, then go do something about it, that's the wonderful thing about being an AMERICAN, we can all believe in different things and do our best to make changes by the way we vote and treat our fellow man.

You keep, ad nauseam, referring to my "fear" of something. And that you don't have fears, just suggestions, or worries, or a half full glass. I don't recall saying I feared government or regulations. That's your characterization of me. I try to have rational discussions regarding our system of government. I try to be very reasonable. I don't impose emotional arguments. I back up what I say with historical facts. With what Progressives have actually said and admitted re our constitutional system.

OK. So none of what I have presented makes sense to you. OK. You just believe things could not go in a direction of all powerful government, even though if you read the actual documents of what the founders of Progressivism in this country proposed for governance, which I presented in a factually cited manner, you will see that in effect, and words, that is exactly what they said. That government should not be constrained by the Constitution, but have the unhampered power to do whatever it thinks is right and good. OK. You don't notice how much power the federal government has given itself through the use of unconstitutional regulatory agencies and Court decisions which they admitted were tortuous twisting of the Constitutional original meanings in order to do as they wish. OK. Fine. I accept that--with sorrow, not fear. But I try, as you tell me, to do something about it by having discussions, not just on this forum. Some people understand. Some don't. There seems to be some recognition by more people now of what is happening.

But, as you say. Evolution always wins. I wouldn't put it that way, but I know what you mean. If we evolve into the State in which the authoritarian direction is taking us, then that will be the "winner." But, it can't rationally be denied that it is our evolutionary direction if a course correction is not made. Where we will go from there, only "evolution" will tell us.


My glass as always is more than half full.
Good for you.

Last edited by detbuch; 11-07-2017 at 02:20 AM..
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