Lighten up on sharing of info

[Jamie M]

Let me preface by saying that I have never discovered, truly on my own, a "honey hole" that got posted on the Internet, which resulted in the spot getting too crowded or fished-out. So maybe it's not fair for me to judge those who disdain the sharing of information. But isn't that the whole point of forums like this?

I fell in love with saltwater fishing late in life. No one in my family, and none of my friends, are into fishing. So I'm on my own. Fine. All I want is to learn enough about the popular spots so that I can fish once a week (I have to drive 2 hours each way) and be confident that I'm not wasting my time.

I have never asked anyone for the exact location of their success. But I do sometimes ask a question like "I want to go to Fresh Pond Rocks tomorrow night, but it's low tide and the wind is out of the east. Should I bother?" I don't understand responses like "F.U. buddy, do your own leg work".

Everyone claims that they've done all their own legwork. So am I to believe that all you data-hoggers have fished every inch of coast, under every possible combination of variables like time of year, wind, tide, presence of bait, etc..? Give me a break, that would take a whole lifetime of fishing 365 days a year. Most information about these spots, or at least a good chunk of it, comes from someone else showing you a spot, or telling you about it.

To anyone who honestly does their own legwork, like Iron Mike snorkeling around his spots in the daytime, I tip my hat. To those who only know a certain spot because someone else showed it to them, and they think I'm an #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& because I'm asking for a similar kind of help, I say you are a complete hyprocrite.

I'm not looking to pilfer anyone else's legitimate legwork. But I wonder how many sharpies owe at least SOME of their success to those who gave them some help along the way. Those of you who are complaining about the sharing of information, raise your hand if you HAVE NEVER, EVER gotten any help from someone who knew more than you did.

To anyone who would intentionally give FALSE information to someone like me, I ask this : how is what you're doing any better than what wealthy landowners do when they try to restrict access?

The ocean, and all of her beauty and opportunity, belong to ALL OF US. Even those of us who weren't lucky enough to live across the street from someone like Steve McKenna or Andy Lemar (just examples, not picking on anyone).

I see a lot more of this lately, and it's making me, at least, feel a LOT less comfortable asking questions, which again I thought was the point of this forum. Sounds like paranoid McCarthy-ism to me...

Just my $0.02. Not meant to offend, but looking to find out why newcomers like me are such a threat. I pick up any trash I see, release what I catch, and will always ask the guy fishing next to me if he'd like a cold beer.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Jamie; I've seen it happen, last fall there was a run of people at some spots that mentioned another web page specifically, I packed up and went to a smaller spot with noone around.... and caught

[Saltheart]

Come to the gatherings and meet people in person. Once people know you , you will be surprised how much information is shared between board members on the phone or in private emails.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Amen....

[rizzo]

I think what everyone is getting at is the more you mention a spot and what you catch there online, more people will go there. To make things worse, you get all kinds of fisherman reading the posts. The good ones can fish in a crowd and have a minimal effect. The ones with poor ethics make things bad and really trash the place. Regardless of whos in the spot, if theyre standing on a productive rock you like to fish, you wont be able to fish there.

As far as sharpies and learning info from others, everyone has learned something from another person. The thing is the way that you learn the information. Many many people are willing to share if you go about it the right way. Some will straight out tell you, others will not be as willing ot share but eventually will, once they realize youre serious about it. Part of fishing is learning that one piece of information that can sometime lead to success. I think what a lof of guys are getting mad at is the free handouts to the whole internet and the problems it can cause.

[Saltheart]

BTW , you make the statement


"All I want is to learn enough about the popular spots so that I can fish once a week (I have to drive 2 hours each way) and be confident that I'm not wasting my time."


I understand its nice to catch fish now and then . I hope for your sake though that you have fallen in love with fishing. If its catching you fell in l.ove with , you will soon tire of the sport.

[angler management]

Jamie,

I will start by saying if you are giving out a cold beer I will be right beside you.

I am new as well, and I am always willing to share information. I guess I see two sides to this.

1) yes if someone says a specific spot is very good, it can get overrun.

2) yes I bet most people found a spot by talking to someone else.

The bottom line is you have got to know and trust people before people will be willing to give up information.


But I will give you my .02

THERE ARE NO COD AT THE ISLES of SHOLES off NH.

Hell fishing is a social sport.

Have FUN! and move closer to the ocean!

[blackeye]

let me pose a scenario to you.
you are fishing a certain spot of shoreline by yourself, and catch a 40# fish, the next nite you are there with with a friend you catch another 40# fish there. the next nite you go there and there are 8 guys fishing there, plus some chunkers with a couple of rods in spikes (not that there's anything wrong with that), the beach is trashed up, and parking is limited. all because your friend opened his mouth at the tackle shop where he weighed his 40#er in.
next week you go back to your spot and find families camping out, the parking area full, even more trash, and the locals giving you dirty looks because you are just another fisherman.

now multiply this by tenfold because the instant any piece of information is posted, there are 150 guys or more seeing it.


when this happens to you, you will have the same feelings as the rest of us, and will be jumping on people for burning spots.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Thats why I am very selective on who I tell what; case in point, last year I had a great run of fish for a few weeks, in my 13' whaler, all after dark, and mostly by myself, if people ask I was in the Bay, thats it, this was an easily accesable spot and a few boats f's up the works... and for the most part I was alone, so life was good.... had I told one wrong person... the fleet would have shown up...
If you want to learn spots buy some of Frank D's books or some of the others that tell spots, take a sunny day off and scout, thats how I learned spots, drive around, look, make notes etc...
Buy em from Joe while your at it....

[Crafty Angler]

Hmmmm...boy, did I get trolled up on this one.

"But I do sometimes ask a question like "I want to go to Fresh Pond Rocks tomorrow night, but it's low tide and the wind is out of the east. Should I bother?"

It's okay to ask, but if a guy who looks like he might know recommends that you become more familiar with yourself, consider yourself lucky. At least he spoke to ya.

As a newbie, regardless of when you started, you gotta pay your dues. That means finding out for yourself by going to see if your timing is right or not, and trying to figure out what went right or wrong depending. THAT is a large part of the game - self-reliance. It's okay to ask - better to tell someone you've done it 10 times in a row with no luck. They may take pity on ya then if they knew you at least tried on your own.

There's a work ethic in shore fishing that's sorta blue-collar in a way - and guys will respect those who work for what they know regardless of how much or how little it is. At least ya tried.

I RE-started surf-fishing later in life - lots later than you I'll bet - and worked pretty hard at it with little success for a long time - so I just kept at it, read a lot, went to seminars talked to guys I knew AFTER I tried everything else and was aware that any little tidbit was worth more than money - it represented hours out of a man's life spent in the quest for knowledge. And after a while a coupla guys took pity on me beating my brains out with a few pointers here and there. Can't tell ya how much that meant to me. And not just in terms of fish-catching.

Saltheart hit it dead on the nuts. If it's ONLY about catching for you, you're not gonna like it. It ain't just about fish for many. It's just that they occasionally get pinned to the end of your line through acquired skills or dumb-ass luck and it's pretty goddammed excitin'. It's the frosting on the cake.

Here endeth the sermon for today.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Saltheart and Old Uncle Crafty are right... go read Joe's comments in the snacks thread, there are many things outside catching that make this a great sport; even simple things like drinking coffee on the ride down to your spot.. an d re: paying dues, my first three years fishing So.Co. after living in middletown/newport area were slow and unproductive and I'm still learning but alot of dues have been paid and I'm a better fisherman, here and elsewhere because of it...

[chris L]

I learn peoples vehicles and follow them to their spots . like at a bait store I hang out and wait for the guy that has a clue then I follow him to where he fishes . I have a list of vehicles of people from this and 3 other sites in Ct Ri and mass . I even have a few vermonters that I follow for trout . See I do my own leg work . finding and following takes a lot of skill and deceptiveness . good thing Uncle Sam was my instructor !

[RIROCKHOUND]

Chris; just dont mistake one of us for 'charlie'

Flashback

[RIJIMMY]

Let me play devil's advocate....

I have never ever met a fisherman like my father. He was an ex-marine and in fantastic physical condition. He walked miles and miles to fish spots. He caught more bass that anytone i've met. He has 4 50+ fish, all from the surf. He fished 6 days a week. 2 days before work in Stratford Ct. 4 days in So. County Rhode Island, May thru December for years and years. He read every book, owned every lure, researched every spot. He always fished alone, sometimes with me. ALways at night. He retired to Florida in 1994.

I returned to the east coast in 2000 and begain fishing his old haunts. I knew of a spot I wanted to try so I asked my Dad for some advice. He said he tried everything for 10 years to get to this spot but never found a way to get access.

I did a search on the web, stumbled on a few sights. Came to this site and found out how to access the spot, in less than 5 minutes. I also had people give me advice on how to fish the spot. All becasue I asked the question. Without the sharing of knowledge, I would never have found this spot, I caught a lot of fish there this year. Homework and hardwork is not always the answer.
I'm not really sure what my point is

[Fish On]

No cod at the Isles of Shoals? Well if you mean fishing from shore then I'd agree but if you are drawing a 5 mile radius around the island then I have to disagree. Sorry, they are there. You just have to find them. The information you need is on most charts.

[chris L]

can I have your car make , model and color Please ? no plate # needed .

[Crafty Angler]

Daaammmmnnn.....I'll swear I had some guy wearin' a black wig following me last year....then he vanished.....

[chris L]

its no wig ! lets see wasnt that the ummm . No I wont let out the vehicle Ive spent to many hours to just give up my info !

[RIROCKHOUND]

Chris I gots no problem given ya that info, ya still gotta find me...

[Maloney]

Posting specific spots or beaches is BAD policy. Writing about ie.Flaptail's GENERAL info articles in OTW that he WROTE YEARS AGO or BM's GENERAL info respones on GENERALLY what geographical locations to fish at a given stage of the season, are OK. Heck, what do people want? If you live near the water somewhere on the Striper Coast, you're gonna have more oppurtunities to get out, even for an hour or so. The rest of us have to make the drive and LEARN BY OURSELVES. That is the only FUN way. Cripes, I have made the long drive only to find mung, or lousey conditions. What do I do? Cry? No, it is an oppurtunity to find some other place to fish. Or fish at the area, but around the conditions.
The best I can do is try to have time off that coincides with the tide stages of an area I want to fish. And even that homework goes all wrong sometimes.

Like other guys said, be a gentleman/woman on the beach/ditch. Be polite and respectful of others, over time earn their trust, and help will be given.

[spence]

Being a transplant from the midwest I started from scratch when I began surfcasting seriously last spring. I learned a ton from the boards, but I learned a lot more by meeting people and fishing with them.

-spence

[Jamie M]

You guys are making very valid points.

Especially you Saltheart, who probably spoke for everyone when you said that if I was able to get me butt to one of the get-togethers, I'd feel more comfortable asking for and getting pointers.

Also, I never said I was looking for super-secret, super-productive spots. I just want to avoid a situation where I'm completely wasting my time by fishingat a spot under the absolute worst conditions. Believe me, it's not the catching for me, it's about being on the water and smelling the salt air. If you knew how few fish I catch off the beach each saeson, you'd know for SURE that I'm not in this for the meat...

For example, there is a very popular spot near where I grew up called the "West Haven Sand Bar". Lately, it has gotten incredibly popular in the spring as a spot where the shore angler can terget, and at times expect many hook-ups with, weakfish. Having grown up there, I know that fishing that spot below mid-tide is an absolute waste of time.

With that in mind, when people ask me about the West Haven Sand Bar, I always, always, always tell them not to waste their time by going at low tide. General tips like that are all most serious wanna-be's like me are looking for. And I don't feel like I'm jeopardizing that spot by giving someone who might spend all day driving to get there, a pointer like that.

[chris L]

I fish there too when I cant get farther away from home . been fishing that place for many many years . 2 hours either side of high and thats it and to me thats part of the problem with that spot . everyone that knows how shallow it is decends on it around high tide and it gets crowded , just like when the weaks move in in May people come out of the wood work . But it does produce . My daughters call it the garbage beach its gotten so bad out there .

[redlite]

I have wondered many of these same things as I continue to learn about how to and what it takes to catch fish. I used to love fishing, but I am not going to lie. I hate fishing. I only like catching. I got the big fish bug pretty bad years ago and no matter how I try to change, I can't escape it. I talk to EVERYONE on the beaches that I pass, even those that just want to be left alone. I learned more just from talking to people than could ever be found in books. They probably at the time felt I was intruding on them as a new comer just as I feel the same about the guy that comes driving down the beach with their high beams on and shines them onto the water.
I have learned how "blowing spots" can change how you act toward other fishermen. Years ago fishing a creek with my dad that he has fished his whole life, this old timer kept telling me about how himand his buddies were at this way down cape beach and night after night catching multiple 30=# fish when we were "content" with 10 to 15# fish. well, I went and bought a map and found that place. Originally when I started fishing hard there 10 years ago, there were only a few of us that fished there and we always caught. The old timers took me under their wings and have showed me a lot, but not everything. Now when you go that beach, there are often so many cars in the lot that you can't even park there. I fish there a lot less and it seems there are a lot less fish caught there.
Even up until this past season I was all about bringing in the trophy to hang on the scale to see the envy of the guys at the tackle shop that had nothing to show. It was about "pride". Then last year I started to notice people following my truck around, so I would leave it at one beach and hitch a ride. Why would I act like this? Because many times I walk miles and miles in a night fishing every hole. Then bonanza. Many times the area the fish are piled up in is so small that more than 4 people fishing and lines are crossed up and then it becomes more of a hassle.
I don't know, but I just know that I have seen myself change a lot, and a lot of it is for the same bad thing that I used to criticize the old timers for myself.

[JohnR]

Only had the chance to skim thru the thread but I say it all the time (and I might be right on this one), it's all about striking the right balance. Some knowledge was given to me in confidence and I won't reveal online what that was. A select few will get nibbles and I'll get much the same in return. Some knowldege was hard won by applying it in the suds. Some knowledge was from these boards and some was plain dumb luck. But with fishing you do get out what you put in. If you canvass a few boards and fly hell bent to a spot you won't be as successful TO YOURSELF as spending time and time doing it....

spoke for everyone when you said that if I was able to get me butt to one of the get-togethers, I'd feel more comfortable asking for and getting pointers.

.... and people might be more willing to share in return AFTER they've met you and got to know you a little