plug tuning question - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

steelhead · 10-25-2004, 10:25 AM

I have made a 5 1/4" swimmer that right now will only swim When I reel VERY SLOWLY on the surface of the water. It doesn't seem to want to dig and swim. Rather will roll over on its back and spin as it comes thru the water. The plug is 5 1/4" long and is 1 1/8" wide at the widest point. It's shape is like a Blue Streak but smaller. I have a # 2 NJT lip on it right noe that is set on the daimeter of the front of the plug wuth the screw eye in the lower hole. It weighs 2 oz.

Do I need to put some weight under the chin? and possibly further back?

steelhead · 10-25-2004, 10:26 AM

The lip is a NJT #2 Danny lip...

MAC · 10-25-2004, 11:16 AM

Hard to tell without seeing a picture of the plug.

spence · 10-25-2004, 11:22 AM

Does it have any belly weight at all?

-spence

Jigman · 10-25-2004, 12:10 PM

You might try a shot of lead in the chin, OR a shot in the belly. Really depends on the action you are after. A pikie lip will create more wobble/roll than a danny style lip. Add lead in the chin with a pikie lip and it will cause the nose to drop down and the plug to dig some. Also will give it more roll. Danny lip and weight dead center of the plug will help to give the plug more of a snake like wiggle. Thats some of the basics. Post a photo or two of the plug and may be one of us can come up with some specifics for your plug.

Jigman

steelhead · 10-25-2004, 02:32 PM

Here's a picture of the plug I was trying out this AM. Was also wondering about the agle of the eye and how that affects the action of a plug. On this one I have it in the lower slot of the lp and it is angled down.

Slipknot · 10-25-2004, 02:45 PM

with the eye down, the plug wants to stay up waggling on top. A weight in the belly may help with roll, or a heavier hook but that hook looks ok. Maybe trim the lip some.

John E · 10-25-2004, 02:52 PM

I agree with Slip, try some weight in the belly first. I would suggest right behind the hook. The weight gives the plug a point to pivot around when swimming.

steelhead · 10-25-2004, 03:13 PM

Thanks Guys! Found the balance point of the plug. It's right behind the belly hook. I'm going to move the belly hook forward a tad, rebalance it and put the weight right on the balance point. See what happens...

MAC · 10-25-2004, 04:27 PM

Might want to try moving the screw eye up to the top slot too

steelhead · 10-25-2004, 09:34 PM

First added the bely weight and tried swimming the plug. Better, but still sensitive and still rolled over. moved the screw to the upper slot and most of the problems went away. Still will roll over when I sweep the rod hard or reel hard. Either add one more small weight under the nose or try a small lip.

I'm finding myself challenged by that lower slot. It's there for a reason and I have to figure it out. I went back and looked at those old classics like the Blue Streak and Atom, etc. They all use that equivalent of the lower slot.... There's still a balance issue I'm missing when trying to use the lower slot.

MAC · 10-26-2004, 12:15 AM

See where the bend on the lip is before it goes at 45 degrees. That should be even with the botttom edge of the plug. Right now it is hanging lower and will cause problems. Moving the lip up a strong 1/8" should help too. This is the dun part of plug building. Making a plug work the way ya want. Once there taake notes so it can be done with less effort.

capesams · 10-26-2004, 05:49 AM

one thing to note on the older plugs...they all had very large hooks on them which also helped in the swiming action...most were 4/0-5/0 some even 6/0.......acting as rudders an adding the need weight so they wouldn't roll...

NIB · 10-26-2004, 07:07 AM

5 .25 x 1 1/8 2oz heavy what kinda wood is it made of.Any more wieght an it may sink.looks like the plug should swim.bigger front hook an perhaps moved forward some.try that size outa red cedar.should swim pissa wicked.

steelhead · 10-26-2004, 07:40 AM

Got a 1 1/8" dowl from Home Depot. Supposed to be maple. Grain says oak... it's fairly bouyant. Moving hook, larger hooks, lip placement, etc. are things that will happen over the next day or so to see and learn about their affect on the plug.

Great fun!!! Drives the wife nuts to see me head out the ddoor at 10:30 at night to go test a plug :-)

You guys are great in the help department! And I feel like I'm actuallly off the bottom of the learning curve as I'm beginning to think of some of the things you're suggesting! Just enough to be dangerous now....

Red cedar. Hmmmm....

John E · 10-26-2004, 07:44 AM

FYI,

At least here on LI, the Homies hardwood dowels are not maple or oak once they go over 1". They use some other type of wood (can't think of it now, sorry). But, it has very little grain, very light in weight and color. Used it when I was starting out since it was cheap and available. You've got to seal it well otherwise it will soak up alot of water.

Jigman · 10-26-2004, 08:15 AM

Lip placement and size look fine to me. I gotta agree with NIB, try a lighter wood. Those hardwood dowels are fine for needles and may be poppers. Not the best choice for swimmers. You want a lighter wood for a swimmer. If you want to stick with dowels, look for poplar ones. Lighter than the hardwood ones, but not as light as cedar. Wouldn't be me first choice for a swimmer, but better than hardwood.

Jigman

Charleston · 10-26-2004, 09:00 AM

This is a great thread. It's an illustration of the actual intent of the forum!! Keep up the good work!

steelhead · 10-26-2004, 09:32 AM

What would be your first choice for wood for a swimmer? Cedar?
I talked with an old timer one time who told me to use cyprus.
I priced it and it's pretty expensive....

Another question. I'm using an old jewelers lathe that a friend gave to me and it isn't set up to take square stock, only dowels. Centering is another story... Any suggstions for dowl sources, up to 2" in diameter?

John E · 10-26-2004, 09:39 AM

SH,

Take the square stock and knock the corners off on a table saw. Why can't the lathe you're using take sqaure stock???

bassmaster · 10-26-2004, 10:27 AM

steel, check Your email

Jigman · 10-26-2004, 11:34 AM

I've been using AYC (Alaskan Yellow Cedar) for swimmers/pikies. Others like Red Cedar.

Don't know of any place off hand that has 2 inch dowels. Try a web search. I seem to remember coming across a few places that have them when I was searching on various woods.

Jigman

steelhead · 10-26-2004, 05:58 PM

Added another hook and went up a size to 3/0 VMC from 2/0 Eagle Claw. Swam really well, tugging back against me as I reeled in. I'm beginning to get the sense that there is a certain "sense of life" at the other end of the line that occurs when a plug is swimming well. Wouldn't roll over when I swept or jerked the rod tip. May still play with the lip size a bit more (try a smaller one) or put on a small pikie lip to see what the difference is.

This has been a huge help. Parallel to this I've been doing a series of other bodies (dannies and other swimmers) and going thru the same thing. What I've learened on this one, I've been able to apply to the others. COOL!!!

bassmaster · 10-26-2004, 06:00 PM

punch that lip in flat to that plug
thank You.........................

steelhead · 10-26-2004, 06:16 PM

I'll give it a whack or two...

Then I'll paint it. Some classic scheme I think. Great stuff!!!

Jigman · 10-26-2004, 06:20 PM

You've definitely got the right idea. Experiment with different lips, weighing, hooks, etc to get where you want with the plug. Plenty of what you learn doing this can be applied to other swimmer type plugs you make. Keep it up and you'll soon nail the pattern you are after

Those striped ones are good teachers too

Jigman

bassmaster · 10-26-2004, 06:36 PM

nice to see some one learning the hard way....
paint that plug in a basic color, maybe solid white or yellow
paint it some thing You know will catch fish for You

steelhead · 10-26-2004, 06:53 PM

Bone white has worked well for me as has yellow. The other one that worked all summer for me at Cranes Beach where I put in my time this summer was yellow over silver (even at night....).

Putting in your time seems the only way you can learn this art. It's clear that there are no simple recipies or formulas out there. And there are very subtle differences between something working and not working. The fish will tell me for sure. They always have with the flies that I tie. It's also fun to torment an occasionaladult herring or black backed gull.... Great to see them stop dead in flight, wheel about and swing down to investigate the "fish" swimming below them :-)

bassmaster · 10-27-2004, 06:40 PM

steel I use to fly fish at night and my fav fly was an eel punt
i ran outa fly rods snapped them all

I had a T&T hs909s was a nice rod.
I use to love fishing for bones and albies from my boat with the fly..

steelhead · 10-27-2004, 07:45 PM

Mmmmm... Eel Punt... My biggest bass on a fly rod was taken on an all black 12" eel punt. Castleneck River, 10:30 at night. Barely felt the take.... :-)

I have a fly rod you should try sometime... 10'-6" 8 weight. Throws an 10/11 weight floating line all day. Flexes/feels like the old fiberglass rods. About as heavy as well...