bailed Van Staal - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

Pete_G · 11-14-2005, 10:45 PM

This is a test reel but it's real close to final production now. I'm a big fan of the new handle and the manual bail is VERY solid. New line roller too, it should last longer then the old titanium one. The drag has a slightly different tone to it. Other then that it feels like a Van Staal. The anti-reverse has been relocated so the reel has a much more solid engagement then the bailess reel. The bailed reels drivetrain flexes a bit when the anti-reverse engages.

We haven't had it long so it has been submerged or dragged across the rocks too brutally yet, but there's still time...

Pete_G · 11-14-2005, 10:46 PM

one more pic

libassboy · 11-15-2005, 12:24 AM

Pete, they look sweet!

Are the internal parts the same? Any idea on a release date?

Joe · 11-15-2005, 01:17 AM

I'm getting one...

Peter Lajoie · 11-15-2005, 01:48 AM

I fooled around with one this past september out on Long Island, I liked the feel of them right of the bat, just wish I could of abused it a little more, to see what it is really like.....

MAC · 11-15-2005, 05:34 AM

Nice looking reel. Any idea if they are going to make anything bigger than the 100 and 150? Square handle knob is nice too.

lurch · 11-15-2005, 05:48 AM

why add a bail?

shadow · 11-15-2005, 06:02 AM

i'am with lurch dont like the bail.

maddog2020 · 11-15-2005, 07:01 AM

How much more is that going to add to the cost?

Does the bail go over automatic as you turn the handle or do you have to manually snap it over on your own?

afterhours · 11-15-2005, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurch

why add a bail?

yeah - ?

lurch · 11-15-2005, 07:28 AM

To me the bail is another point of failure.

I guess they are making a new toy for the fisherman.

dickmont · 11-15-2005, 07:37 AM

i saw it at the shop on sunday. very very nice!!! i think i'll be finding a rod to put one on over the winter. stay tuned pete.

spence · 11-15-2005, 07:39 AM

Think about it this way, if your bail actually worked everytime without closing on the cast would you still want to go without?

Wouldn't you rather have a skirted spool so your freaking braided line doesn't get caught under when you're on a high perch in the dark?

Wouldn't you want a longer cast spool that doesn't have to be at least 90% full and fully extended to cast at it's best?

Don't you have even more excess money stuffed under your matress just waiting for a new toy you don't really need

At least I'm sure that's what VS is thinking...Be interested to see how much a larger reel would weigh.

-spence

afterhours · 11-15-2005, 07:44 AM

yes, no probs, like a full spool, and no.

JoeP · 11-15-2005, 08:16 AM

Just get a Saltiga

John E · 11-15-2005, 08:33 AM

Will that handle, or just the knob, fit the bailless reels?

NIB · 11-15-2005, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe

I'm getting one...

Hey Joe,where ya goin wit that reel in ur hand??
hey Joe, why don't u have ss darters??

Pete_G · 11-15-2005, 08:45 AM

I'll try and answer all the questions in one post:

Internal parts are very similar. The one way roller bearing has been moved to a different spot to make the reel stronger. Ya know how the bailess reel's rotor has some "give" to it when you twist it backwards? That's your drivetrain flexing. This reel doesn't do that.

Bigger reels are on the horizon, no dates though. Just the 100 and 150 for now.

Why add a bail? I kind of had the same reaction, but it's more of a "different strokes for different folks sort of thing." Some people have refused to buy a VS over the years due to the lack of a bail. Same thing with the skirted spool. Anyone can work a bailed reel, but you just can't hand someone a bailess reel and expect them to be good with it. Ever fish for tuna bailess? You gotta be fast, you instantly have to get that lure moving and hopefully they won't grab it while the line is still on your finger. I know someone who got a good look at the bone in his finger this year fishing for tuna with a VS.

I wouldn't worry about the bail, it's all titanium and extremely rugged. Could it fail? Time will tell, but they didn't take making a bailed reel lightly. When you feel the bail flip over in your hands you'll understand just how heavily it's built. It's a manual bail like the Saltiga, it doesn't flip when you turn the handle. The rotor is all machined, there is no cast metal. I don't see it popping over accidently for any reason; it opens very positively yet closes easily. It feels exactly like you'd want it to.

I'm not sure about prices, but I think they are coming in around the Saltiga, $650 or so.

The handle won't be available right away for the bailess reel, but they do retro-fit and they intend to release them for that reason.

The bailed reel is close, there are a few tweaks to be made but they are aiming to have them out before X-mas. Basically it's in final testing now.

It looks like it's going to be warm and windy tomorrow, the reel better be ready to get REAL wet. I'm going swimming...

Joe · 11-15-2005, 08:59 AM

I don't have SS darters because I don't have a line of credit. I'll add them as soon as I can afford to - certainly within two months.
I's likes the look of that VS......I've been wanting to go VS for a while now....I just hope Pete does not raise the price when he see's me come in.

NIB · 11-15-2005, 09:10 AM

wELL IT'S CLEAR TO ME UR SPENDIN ALL UR MONEY ON REELS.
OOPS.cAPS LOCK
No smiley faces so i do this, ;-)

Krispy · 11-15-2005, 09:11 AM

Unless they changed the spool design, it sounds like a $200 ripoff for the Orvis crowd to coo over.
Instead of pointless exercises in adding doo-dads to the line up, they should have the engineering crew working on fixing the few design flaws of the original.

Pete_G · 11-15-2005, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe

I don't have SS darters because I don't have a line of credit. I'll add them as soon as I can afford to - certainly within two months.
I's likes the look of that VS......I've been wanting to go VS for a while now....I just hope Pete does not raise the price when he see's me come in.

Right now I'm just hoping I ordered enough.... I may have under-estimated demand.

The reel, if it costs $650, costs the same as a VS250 or approx. $50 more then a 150. Not too bad for all that additional titatnium.

Water Treater · 11-15-2005, 10:01 AM

I could never go back to using a spinning reel with an automatic bail. Years ago I converted all my Penn reels to manual bail but then realized these reels (Penn 6500 and 7500) were too heavy for the graphite rods I was using. Switched to Van Staal and never looked back. Also, I needed a reel that will recover when allowed to fall over in the sand. I tag and release what I catch and sometimes to do that I need three hands. My Van Staal reels (certainly not perfect) instantly recover by simply dunking them in the surf.

I took my wife surf fishing for the first time about 6 years ago. Handed her a Van Staal 100VS reel and a 7 foot graphite rod and told her how to manually set the bail after each cast. She had no problem, probably because she had never used a reel with an automatic bail.

I'm all for progress and I'd like to invest in a better made, stronger, and more durabe reel but please, no automatic bails or even manual bail wires. Keep it simple. It works.

SeaWolf · 11-15-2005, 10:41 AM

why bailed? - i have to agree w/ pete that some people have asked for a bailed reel and vs listened. kudos to vs. also, to stay in competion w/ the diawa's and shimano's, they really needed to make this. i personally have no use for a bailed reel, but that's my choice. people asked and vs listened.

judging by a couple of the changes/upgrades made to this model, it sounds like vs is also listening to their service dept and customers complaints and/or suggestions on issues w/ the current models. hopefully these improvements will be available to current models in the future. so far, i like what i'm seeing.

JFigliuolo · 11-15-2005, 10:59 AM

ok... How do you free spool with your VS? How do you put the line back on the roller once the fish takes your eel? I always come VERY close to mangling my finger.

BernOC · 11-15-2005, 11:18 AM

Having no need for a bail myself, others do. They should still lower the profile of the drag nob though for possible line wraps.

Joe · 11-15-2005, 11:34 AM

Yeah - Guess I'm part of the Orvis crowd - hey, at least their teeth are white.
I've used a 706 off and on over the years - but I've never really had any bail problems with my 704 - even though a lot people complain that they close on the cast....
I just find having the bail makes life easier - I don't like to look down, I don't want to think about the line. I throw a lot of Super Strike stuff that sinks like a rock.

Pete_G · 11-15-2005, 11:35 AM

Personally I think it would be foolish for them to NOT offer a bailed reel. If you think about it, they are targeting a SMALL market with a bailess reel. So basically you just excluded a bunch of potential customers in a very small market. Not smart. This is a very logical option to offer, if you ask me. Joe is a perfect example, he just doesn't like bailess.

JoeP · 11-15-2005, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete_G

Personally I think it would be foolish for them to NOT offer a bailed reel. If you think about it, they are targeting a SMALL market with a bailess reel. So basically you just excluded a bunch of potential customers in a very small market. Not smart. This is a very logical option to offer, if you ask me. Joe is a perfect example, he just doesn't like bailess.

I think Pete is right. One of the main reasons I sold my VS's and switched to Saltigas was the bail-less design. Like Joe said above, too much looking down & effort into the casting/starting to reel motion with bail-less.

If the new manual bail on the VS is like the Saltiga's bail it is a big plus IMO.

SeaWolf · 11-15-2005, 12:20 PM

honestly, the only time i ever look down at my vs (or when i used a 706) was when ever once in a great while i'd catch the line twice w/ the roller. it becomes second nature putting the line on the roller after doing it so many times.

my reasons for liking a manual bail, it's one less piece to worry about or fail. of course, you cannot compare a 704 bail system to new ones found on stellas or saltigas. if i'm eeling, i drop the rod and take the line off the roller, just the same as someone opening a bail. it becomes second nature.

as pete said, there are times when you need to put line on the roller quick, like w/ tuna. my experience is usually when i'm fishing in a gale and the longer i take catching the line after the lure hits the water, the bigger the bow in my line and possibly missed strikes. you learn to feel the lure hit the water, start reeling right away and maybe "feather" the line as it comes off to control distance.

now, when ohh when will that sealed drag and gearcase, non levelwind vs casting reel ever come out! that's what i want to see!