Smoke this!

[numbskull]

From the CCT article today about the demise of the bass bill.....

"...According to the National Marine Fisheries Service, the recreational catch, for instance, has dropped off dramatically over the past four years. In 2006, recreational fishermen caught (he means kept) nearly 9 million fish. Last year, they caught (again kept) less than 2.6 million. Along the Atlantic coast, fishermen caught 28.6 million fish in 2006 but only 6.9 million last year.

But scientists at the state Division of Marine Fisheries and at the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission, which has authority over fish whose territories span two or more states' coastal waters, believe the striped bass population remains extremely healthy and does not require any drastic measures at this time. They point out that, despite a recent downturn, the spawning stock remains at a level nearly double what is required to maintain the population at healthy levels.

DMF Director Paul Diodati blamed poor environmental conditions in southern spawning areas for the decline. "


So, the recreational fishing success has dropped 300% in 4 years but everything is great and we should continue fishing at current levels because there are fish somewhere and we can't do anything about the spawning areas so the decline is not our fault.


WTF ARE THESE MORONS THINKING and is there anybody out there on this board who actually is sure this BULLSHIIT about "everything is fine the bass have just moved offshore along the WHOLE EFFING EXTENT OF THEIR RANGE so there is no problem" is correct? Sure enough to threaten the ruin of recreational fishing for striped bass along the whole coast? Even if there are decent numbers of breeders left, how does that rationalize killing them when they're struggling to reproduce and numbers are dropping this fast?

[eastendlu]

Bureaucrats are idiots!!!!!

[Back Beach]

Not sure I buy into the numbers as the data collection methods are flawed, IMO.

Anectdotally speaking there seems to be fewer fish being caught each year since the late 90's, but back then you could walk on their backs at certain times, which isn't necessarily good for the stocks, either. Most of the fish were real slim back then and I remember catching lots of fish off Truro around the 50" mark that barely weighed 40#...most weighed in the mid 30# class.

Fish seem to be bigger now with regard to length/weight as compared to back then, and perhaps this idicates we're closer to a predator/prey balance than we were back then.

Whatever the case may be, I'm doing my part for marine conservation by killing more trees than eels this year. Hopefully I'll be allocated a place in heaven replete with sandy beaches, gentle surf, and comfortable neoprene.

[Clammer]

I went to a RI .DEM meeting last week & heard the exact same B/A

they showed a graph & A YOY index . that was issued by one of the national divisions .
OK . everything is cool // don,t f $%^&* with it .. everythings the same for 2010 .. no changes ;
NEXT

[Crafty Angler]

Originally Posted by numbskull

From the CCT article today about the demise of the bass bill.....

"...According to the National Marine Fisheries Service, the recreational catch, for instance, has dropped off dramatically over the past four years. In 2006, recreational fishermen caught (he means kept) nearly 9 million fish. Last year, they caught (again kept) less than 2.6 million. Along the Atlantic coast, fishermen caught 28.6 million fish in 2006 but only 6.9 million last year.

But scientists at the state Division of Marine Fisheries and at the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission, which has authority over fish whose territories span two or more states' coastal waters, believe the striped bass population remains extremely healthy and does not require any drastic measures at this time. They point out that, despite a recent downturn, the spawning stock remains at a level nearly double what is required to maintain the population at healthy levels.

DMF Director Paul Diodati blamed poor environmental conditions in southern spawning areas for the decline. "


So, the recreational fishing success has dropped 300% in 4 years but everything is great and we should continue fishing at current levels because there are fish somewhere and we can't do anything about the spawning areas so the decline is not our fault.

WTF ARE THESE MORONS THINKING and is there anybody out there on this board who actually is sure this BULLSHIIT about "everything is fine the bass have just moved offshore along the WHOLE EFFING EXTENT OF THEIR RANGE so there is no problem" is correct? Sure enough to threaten the ruin of recreational fishing for striped bass along the whole coast? Even if there are decent numbers of breeders left, how does that rationalize killing them when they're struggling to reproduce and numbers are dropping this fast?

Thanks, George, for posting this - I was getting tired of feeling old, cynical and almost alone in my opinion (except for the other guys of my vintage) and I haven't yet been swayed by protests to the contrary

While I can't do much about the first two since it comes with the territory, I haven't bought the 'everything is just hunky-friggin'-dorey' argument for quite a while...

As with virtually everything else, money is at the root of all evil - and the supposed viability of the striped bass fishery is just a ruse that's part of a much larger economic engine that goes well beyond just tackle shops and charter boats and related industries - starting with Omega Protein, agricultural methods in the coastal watersheds, etc ,etc - the list of contributing factors is long and the money and political will to do anything about it isn't really there

More importantly, how do you go about forcing a paradigm shift on issues of those proportions that will affect the coastwide community from Maine to the Carolinas?

You know, we all noted with sadness the passing of Bob Pond not very long ago - I suppose the question now is who among us will be the next Bob Pond with that level of determination and courage to actually do something about it

[Mr. Sandman]

George,

Thanks for this post. I have been critical of the DFM and their ability to manage any fish and in particular using rear-view mirror and selective data approaches to justify legislation to appease their commercial interests.

This is EXACTLY what I mean...yeah no one is catching much of anything, the fish are sick, predation (from other species like seals) are up, forage fish populations are in the crapper, actual catch numbers and mean sizes are down (from a number of sources) and despite what he said YOY index is NOT strong it is pretty weak, don't forget they changed the way YOY index is computed SO if they used the older method (which was used for many years prior ) we would be well under the threshold, it is only with this new model that things appear healthy.

All this is being ignored.

THIS is why the gamefish bill is important, it takes DMF OUT OF THE LOOP. These guys are a bunch of fools who have not helped out fishery but help destroy it.

The main reason they are saying this is to protect their OWN interest...their job.

Bottom line: IF YOU WAIT UNTIL YOU SEE DISASTER CATCH RESULTS IT WILL BE TOO LATE TO DO ANYTHING! It would be better to trim the take BEFOR we get into a bad situation.

WTF??? How stupid are these people?

[numbskull]

While we are at it, SOMEBODY PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO US GUYS WHO ARE TOO STUPID TO FIGURE IT OUT ON OUR OWN

The recreational catch/release and catch/keep has decreased 3 fold since 2006, yet the commercial take is steady (only because an increase was turned down by 1 effing vote). Yet I keep seeing the same pie chart over and over showing that recreational fisherman kill 4x what commercial fisherman kill. HOW CAN THAT BE if the recreational catch is 1/3 of what it was and the commercial catch has not changed? For that ratio to stay the same the commercial catch needs to be REDUCED by 2/3. SO WHY ISN'T IT ?

[Sashamy]

I bet over the past three years most peoples income has dropped 300% as well.....so put that in your pipe and smoke it! What are you going to spend money on in a recession? Gas for your boat? nope..gas for your car...you gonna go on vacation? nope you are going to pay your mortgage...didn't you call the kettle black by calling the beauracracy flawed, yet you want to believe a NMFS study? Isn't NMFS the one that has f'd up all the fisheries? Yeah exactly...you guys just go fishing...and you know what if you want to save a few fish than don't go...but I will still have fun catching, killing in some cases, and releasing bass as I have since the mid nineties with ease...

[Sashamy]

Massachusetts alone catches 4 million fishg a year..so tell how those numbers are factual..they are not...there have been so many cuts in the survey areas that half the people are surveying anyway...c'mon guys stop reaching let it die...its over you lost...the power grab is done..status quo is and will be the rule.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Sashamy

..didn't you call the kettle black by calling the beauracracy flawed, yet you want to believe a NMFS study? Isn't NMFS the one that has f'd up all the fisheries? Yeah exactly...you guys just go fishing...and you know what if you want to save a few fish than don't go...but I will still have fun catching, killing in some cases, and releasing bass as I have since the mid nineties with ease...

You're a classy guy.......but I think you are a bit confused. The NMFS IS THE SCIENCE, they don't set policy or manage fisheries. They are paid by the public to work for the public. The bureaucrats are they guys in DMF and ASMFC, who are paid by the public, but also by your commercial fishermen buddies to F' Up the fishery on your behalf. They do this easily by picking what science they want to believe and ignoring any science that does not fit their agenda. It works quite well as I'm sure you are aware.

Hope you find this helpful.

[dannyplug1]

Yes you won this round. Feel proud your special interest group won. We are closer to the destruction of the striped bass. You guys dont care you will go on to the next species and then decimate it. Watch out there are more of us recs and when the rest of us wake up you may find your self out of business. Yes you won ignorance and greed often do but not over the long haul

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Sashamy

Massachusetts alone catches 4 million fishg a year...

Link for 2009 please?

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by dannyplug1

Yes you won this round. Feel proud your special interest group won.

Stripers Forever is a special interest group, too, and a pretty stupid amateurish one at that. They haven't done anybody any favors and striped bass would be far better off if they would just go away.

Please don't turn this thread into some rehash of that joke of a bill they threw out there.

[Sashamy]

i am a recreational fisherman as much if not more than the next guy...you have some elitest belief that fish shouldn't be sold...oh well that is your perrogative...the asmfc gives ma a specific state quota..the ma dmf then delegates where the fish go...if you have a problem with that than get off your ass and go down to the asmfc and complain there...to complain at a state level where everything is in compliance is nothing more than what u r full of...hot air.

[Sashamy]

knumbskull that was directed towards danny boy not you

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by numbskull

While we are at it, SOMEBODY PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO US GUYS WHO ARE TOO STUPID TO FIGURE IT OUT ON OUR OWN

The recreational catch/release and catch/keep has decreased 3 fold since 2006, yet the commercial take is steady (only because an increase was turned down by 1 effing vote). Yet I keep seeing the same pie chart over and over showing that recreational fisherman kill 4x what commercial fisherman kill. HOW CAN THAT BE if the recreational catch is 1/3 of what it was and the commercial catch has not changed? For that ratio to stay the same the commercial catch needs to be REDUCED by 2/3. SO WHY ISN'T IT ?

I have no personal knowedge to back this up, but the reason that the catch numbers in mass commercial sector has not changed is that it is a poundage limit. What I am getting at is that I am certian that the time frame to land that allotted poundage took longer to achieve last year than it did in years past. for example 5 years ago, the season could have been open for 2 weeks to reach the limit, but last year it could have been open for a month or longer.

[Sashamy]

Originally Posted by numbskull
While we are at it, SOMEBODY PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO US GUYS WHO ARE TOO STUPID TO FIGURE IT OUT ON OUR OWN

The recreational catch/release and catch/keep has decreased 3 fold since 2006, yet the commercial take is steady (only because an increase was turned down by 1 effing vote). Yet I keep seeing the same pie chart over and over showing that recreational fisherman kill 4x what commercial fisherman kill. HOW CAN THAT BE if the recreational catch is 1/3 of what it was and the commercial catch has not changed? For that ratio to stay the same the commercial catch needs to be REDUCED by 2/3. SO WHY ISN'T IT ?


Less people fishing...is one good cause...

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by numbskull

While we are at it, SOMEBODY PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO US GUYS WHO ARE TOO STUPID TO FIGURE IT OUT ON OUR OWN

The recreational catch/release and catch/keep has decreased 3 fold since 2006, yet the commercial take is steady (only because an increase was turned down by 1 effing vote). Yet I keep seeing the same pie chart over and over showing that recreational fisherman kill 4x what commercial fisherman kill. HOW CAN THAT BE if the recreational catch is 1/3 of what it was and the commercial catch has not changed? For that ratio to stay the same the commercial catch needs to be REDUCED by 2/3. SO WHY ISN'T IT ?

I don't know what chart you are looking at, but it has to be for a specific period and a specific geography. On the entire Atlantic coast the amount of fish killed by recreational fishermen has gone from about 90% some years ago to 80% today. Also the commercial take has not been steady, the commercials didn't get a quota increase until well into the 1990s striper boom years.

[JohnnyD]

Good thing groups like the MSBA and their commercial friends support this policy-making method.

Let's ask the small CC tackle show owners how they feel about the health of Striped Bass and the inshore fishing.

[Sashamy]

again...not to sound redundant but it is all income related... lets ask Mr Obama what he is going to do about the economy....

[jmac]

I am usually on the water from 80-100 days; There is no where near the amount of boats on the water the last 3 years (economy, outrageous fuel, etc). Marina's, boat dealers, boat manufacturers, are all going under. I can sometimes cruise mid Narragansett Bay and not see another boat (a few sailboats, yes)..same with Watch Hill area. I don't think as many guys are fishing because of the above factors. Also, a lot of recreational catch is made up of charter boat landings...just take a look at Galilee docks in the summer ...a lot of boats tied up; and thats happenning up and down the Northeast Coast..
Also, MA commercial landing period last year (2009), lasted about 5 weeks (about normal), 2008 lasted into mid-September (much longer than usual).
As far as YOY, 2008 was low, 2009 came up a little (saw the chart)....but that always tracks up and down over the period that its been kept (I think it started in 1955)....it will probaly start heading up, if it trends as it has, over the last 50 or so years....

[trapperpierre]

..with less recreational/charter fishing..of course....the recreational catch would go down....less participation in this pie(rec)...yea..gonna get less fish

[numbskull]

Ahhhhhhh.........I see, recreational fishing pressure has dropped to 1/3 what it used to be (probably because NIB switched to golf), but we still kill 80% of the fish? The guys who are left are obviously getting much better (or using eels exclusively) and eating much more. They better be careful about Mercury poisoning. Probably why such huge tracts of the fishes historic range is empty of bass (except for a brief surge in the spring).

Silly me . I assumed recreational catch numbers, which reflect the average success of hundreds of thousands of average fishermen fishing everywhere along the fishes entire habitat using all sorts of techniques was a better indicator of species abundance, than the catch numbers of a few thousand guys targeting specific populations of fish in specific locations that they will travel to get at and drop dead pogies on top of because of the potential for profit.
My bad.

[Sashamy]

No but a lot of guys switched to small bft instead of bass...I have been on the race on saturday in july and been the only boat yet there are 200 guys tuna fishing...numbskull honestly let it die you are wrong..socio economics play a huge part in the number of people fishing, vacationing ect..not to mention when they do go they are targeting small bft more so than ur beloved bass, most people are honestly bored by them...they are not as enamored with the pajamas fish as you are...I can rebut you guys all day with out getting nasty you haven't made one comment that has not blamed the commercial...what you should be seeing is that the commercial fishery has held constant...economics plays a role there too you know! Doug

[MikeToole]

Per ASMFC the striper catch by Recreational fisherman showed a steady increase up until 2006 where there was a sudden drop off for 2007 and 2008. In 2006 recs caught and kept 2.75 million fish and caught and released 25.9 million fish. In 2007 the numbers were 2.3 million / 16.9 million. In 2008 the numbers were 2.2 million / 11.9 million.

You can see this data on the ASMFC web page under the 2009 report for stripers. They refer to this as a slight decrease.

[Nebe]

If there are far less recs out fishing, then the ones who are out should be a lit more to catch
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[MikeToole]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Link for 2009 please?

Linking to a specific page is difficult on the ASMFC site but this is where it's at.

Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission

Once you get to their home page click "managed spicies" on the right.

Then "stripe bass"

About half way down this page under reports is the 2009 report. Page 15 gives you the numbers

[Sashamy]

right it gives you the numbers alright...make sure you read all the numbers...not just the ones you want too...you will that there really has not been that much of drop in recreational take over the past 5 years....

[Nebe]

This discussion is the reason why a saltwater registry is needed. There is not a firm understanding of recreational catches from year to year. Sure some are polled, but not everyone
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sea Dangles]

I love when George starts this stuff. We should all share his infectious passion for the species. The biggest problem I have with it is that I can never understand what he is trying to accomplish. More regs,gamefish status,slot limit?You can't hang your hat on certain science and disregard other science with good conscience.If I could choose one person to spearhead an effort to create the changes the bass need to remain a viable species, it would be Numby.We all know internet discussions are just that and accomplish squat.One issue doesn't need data to back up though,the bass are in trouble.