New Striper hook rules in Maine

[stripermaineiac]

Hi all,It will be illegal in Maine to use treble hooks when using live or dead bait when striper fishing in Maine.
It will be mandatory in Maine when fishing for Stripers that you use circle hooks when using live or dead bait.However this will not go into affect till Jan 1-2013 due to the fact that tackle shops have already invested in and inventory of J -hooks.
It will be prohibited to use more than 2 sets of treble hooks-barbless or barbed-on an artificial lure when fishing for stripers.
Maine is again taking the lead for less destructive measure for fishing for striped bass to help reduce the number needless dead released fish. Ron

[Rob Rockcrawler]

I can only think of one lure that actually benefits from having 3 sets of trebles so it seems like a good proposal.

[Nebe]

Kudos to Maine! They got it right.

[piemma]

Hell, 20 years ago most of us took the rear treble off all our lures and replaced it with a single Siwash.

Thanks god there are still sensible people in this world. As Nebe said "Kudos to Maine"

[numbskull]

I suspect it will be two hooks/plug rather than two hooks and a siwash.

Lots of classic plugs balance better with 3 hooks, but certainly there are ways around it and well worth the benefits if coupled with a ban on more deadly hooks used in bait.

I'm curious what the eel guys think, however. Is an octopus a true circle hook? Might they be banned as well?

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by numbskull

I suspect it will be two hooks/plug rather than two hooks and a siwash.

Lots of classic plugs balance better with 3 hooks, but certainly there are ways around it and well worth the benefits if coupled with a ban on more deadly hooks used in bait.

I'm curious what the eel guys think, however. Is an octopus a true circle hook? Might they be banned as well?

I used Circles with eels 8-9 years ago and didn't like the results so I switched back but saw I was gut hooking a lot of fish again. 3-4 years ago switched back to Circles and I'm satisfied with results.

Very, very satisifed with the very high amount of fish hooked in the corner of the lip, quick releases, significantly few gut hooked (can't think of any at the moment).

[The Dad Fisherman]

Just to be devils advocate....but is too many treble hooks really what's leading to the issues with the Striper Stocks.

This to me just seems to be them "Throwing a Frikkin Bone" to people. There are much bigger issues that need to be addressed way before me choosing a 2 hook darter vs a 3 hook darter.

[Peter D]

"This to me just seems to be them "Throwing a Frikkin Bone" to people. There are much bigger issues that need to be addressed way before me choosing a 2 hook darter vs a 3 hook darter."

It's merely a feel good effort - with little significance or impact. When an issue is difficult to address, throw out some of those "Frikkin Bones" - makes it appear that the problem is being addressed.

[big jay]

Kudos to Maine.

I know the Cape Cod Charter Boat Association has petitioned Ma DEM to make circle hooks mandatory for live bait as well.

[DZ]

I can understand the bait fishing requirement (except for eel fishing) but I guess you can always alter a circle hook. They should have left the plug hook requirements alone IMO. Too many variables with plugs.

DZ

[JohnnyD]

This is like putting a Band-Aid on a broken arm or a dam that is forming leaks and about to break.

A bunch of ineffective patchwork that just adds more red tape while never really fixing the larger issue. Mortality is a bigger problem, in need of a broader "solution" than hook choice and number of hooks.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

This is like putting a Band-Aid on a broken arm or a dam that is forming leaks and about to break.

A bunch of ineffective patchwork that just adds more red tape while never really fixing the larger issue. Mortality is a bigger problem, in need of a broader "solution" than hook choice and number of hooks.

Let's see. They have a slot limit and now this.. I'd say they are doing a he'll of a lot more in Maine than anywhere else.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[RIROCKHOUND]

And,

In a state w/ a slot limit, a move to reduce release mortality is a good step in the right direction.

I think the idea has been put before the RIMFC at least as a proposal before....

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Let's see. They have a slot limit and now this.. I'd say they are doing a he'll of a lot more in Maine than anywhere else.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

If I pick up boxes on one side of the room and move them to the other side, I'm doing a whole lot more than someone that is sitting in the corner. Doesn't mean I actually accomplished anything.

Regulating minute details of how we fish isn't going to fix the broader problem of high mortality.

[Sea Flat]

Apparently you have to be a northern state to institute sensible and easy fishing regulations. Alaska has been well documented as one of the leaders in our country and now Maine is doing something to in order to kill less fish needlessly.

Do I think gut hooking occurs a lot, no, but there are a decent amount of sand spike using bait fisherman that are too busy drinking beer to notice that there has been a fish on the end of his line for a good 30 seconds. And, if his fish ends up not being legal to take home he is going to have to put back a dead or dying fish. Circle hooks will help in this situation. I tend to think this type of regulation would be suitable for all fishermen that like to use clams, chum and chunk bait, or use eels.

There are some reports, true or not, that Catch and Release fishing is accountable for a lot of striper mortality. I personally do not believe this statement or NOAA's crappy assertions, but perhaps this is what led Maine to do something. I applaud them for their efforts and even though I do not agree with C & R mortality figures we all know that it does happen and Maine just did something to prevent unnecessary harm to the fish that we all love to catch.

[PRBuzz]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

If I pick up boxes on one side of the room and move them to the other side, I'm doing a whole lot more than someone that is sitting in the corner. Doesn't mean I actually accomplished anything.

I wondered what you did all day!

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

This is like putting a Band-Aid on a broken arm or a dam that is forming leaks and about to break.

A bunch of ineffective patchwork that just adds more red tape while never really fixing the larger issue. Mortality is a bigger problem, in need of a broader "solution" than hook choice and number of hooks.

Geez, JD. Could you be a little more negative? Maine is at least trying to do something. If this saves a few fish, it's worth it. It's a heck of a lot more than other states are doing concerning the SB stock. If you don't feel it's enough, you should start campaigning at the state house and writing letters in every second of your spare time. Or, you could just stop fishing for stripers (although that may have less of an effect than a bandaid on a decapitation).

I see this as a step in the right direction by some folks who at least are getting something done. Who knows? It may lead to more conservation measures down the line, or other states may follow suit. I definitely don't see it as a bad thing. And the more attention that's brought to the issue, the better.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Geez, JD. Could you be a little more negative? Maine is at least trying to do something. If this saves a few fish, it's worth it. It's a heck of a lot more than other states are doing concerning the SB stock. If you don't feel it's enough, you should start campaigning at the state house and writing letters in every second of your spare time. Or, you could just stop fishing for stripers (although that may have less of an effect than a bandaid on a decapitation).

My issue is this micro-managed type of policy making. They regulate for the sake of regulating under the guise of "it should help". If they want to decrease mortality, there are far more effective ways that don't consist of an ineffective patchwork of over-regulating the average fisherman.

Fisheries managers up and down the coast seem to be penny-wise and dollar-foolish when it comes to creating policy. People keep saying "well at least they are doing something" and I think that mentality is dangerous. With this, they will have their foot in the door dictating how to fish. What's next - all treble hooks are made illegal, no more bait, restrictions on gear you can use?

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

My issue is this micro-managed type of policy making. They regulate for the sake of regulating under the guise of "it should help". If they want to decrease mortality, there are far more effective ways that don't consist of an ineffective patchwork of over-regulating the average fisherman.

Fisheries managers up and down the coast seem to be penny-wise and dollar-foolish when it comes to creating policy. People keep saying "well at least they are doing something" and I think that mentality is dangerous. With this, they will have their foot in the door dictating how to fish. What's next - all treble hooks are made illegal, no more bait, restrictions on gear you can use?

Rome wasn't built in a day.

You have lots of gripes with what they're doing or not doing, but you don't seem to be putting in any effort on your part to improve things.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Rome wasn't built in a day.

You have lots of gripes with what they're doing or not doing, but you don't seem to be putting in any effort on your part to improve things.

I'll make sure to keep you updated on the phone calls and emails I send out and which meets I've attended to voice my concerns.

[bogey]

[QUOTE=JohnnyD;848154]My issue is this micro-managed type of policy making. They regulate for the sake of regulating under the guise of "it should help". If they want to decrease mortality, there are far more effective ways that don't consist of an ineffective patchwork of over-regulating the average fisherman.

What are these "far more effective ways"?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by bogey

What are these "far more effective ways"?

1 @ 36"
5 year suspension of your comm or rec license for poaching

[RIJIMMY]

This targets the catch and release fisherman. Are they the real problem? This doesnt matter if you plan to kill the fish anyway. I dont know the Maine bag limit but if you reduced it to one fish it would have an exponentially larger impact.

[HugeDinghy]

being forced to use circle hooks for chunk bait would piss me off...no problem with the rest...

[Mr. Sandman]

Too small of a step to have any measurable effect. Although it they are pointed in the right direction.

At this point I think it is too late to save the bass. The death spiral has begun and there is nothing that can be done, short of a complete shutdown that can get you out of it. They simply should have outlawed all hooks of any kind.

[FishermanTim]

I haven't used a "J" style hook for baitfishing for close to 10 years.
I don't know what the problem is regarding the use of circle hooks.
They are easy to use and catch just as many RELEASABLE fish as "J" hooks.
However the reverse cannot be said, that "J" hooks are gut-hooked as much as circle hooks.
When I used "J" hooks, being able to release a fish unharmed was uncertain because you never knew where the hook would end up in the fish. Circle hooks are almost ALWAYS found in the corners of the mouth when used properly.

Any steps we take, even "baby steps", to help reduce fish mortality and increase the fish numbers will be a good thing.

[spinncognito]

I don't know. I do not do as much chunking as I used to but to me, a big part of bait fishing is the act of setting the hook. With circle hooks you lose that important aspect of fishing. I can agree with circle hooks for those who sand-spike or dead-stick as this leaves too much time for a fish to inhale and swallow a bait. But for me, the real thrill is "feeling" that pick-up and waiting a few seconds before setting the hook. That involves skill and technique, circle hooks reduces it to "reel in and land" which takes the fun out of it- at least for me.

[DZ]

Originally Posted by spinncognito

I don't know. I do not do as much chunking as I used to but to me, a big part of bait fishing is the act of setting the hook. With circle hooks you lose that important aspect of fishing. I can agree with circle hooks for those who sand-spike or dead-stick as this leaves too much time for a fish to inhale and swallow a bait. But for me, the real thrill is "feeling" that pick-up and waiting a few seconds before setting the hook. That involves skill and technique, circle hooks reduces it to "reel in and land" which takes the fun out of it- at least for me.

You got it Spin - it will be interesting fishing a "riggie" equipped with circles. I envision lots of "swing and miss" sets.

Thing that scares me most is the precedent this might set. By 2015 you might only be able to fly fish in Maine with a barbless hook no larger than size 2. Too much goverment for me.

PETA will be all over this and push for more.

DZ

[Rockfish9]

Maine is just the first state... other states have been talking about circle hooks for years.. it's coming.. and I'm fine with that.... .... I only use J hooks for eel fishing... circles just dont cut it... at season end, you will have hooked far more eels than you do bass.. about 2:1... I've tried them several times over a period of years , and use them for everything else EXCEPT eels...and I gut hook very few bass, most are hooked in the roof or side of the mouth... I havent used a treble in a Mackerel for years, I came up with a sliding hook rig that I use with a pair of 8/0 circles that works awesome... I dont fish cut bait, so that is not an issue... as much as i like the keel effect of two belly hooks on my plugs, being a plug maker, I can adapt...whatever it takes for the health of the fishery is fine by me... now if we can only stop the waste that goes on on the wintering and spawning grounds.. we'd be onto something...

[moogie]

Is the new law in Maine a step in the right direction?
Sure, why not?

However, it's just a scratch on the surface. In order for a law like that to be effective, all of the "Striped Bass" states would have to adopt it.
Every state should have the same Striper regulations. . . .commercial and recreational.
Every state should have the same regulations regarding baitfish as well.

They both go together. You can't do one without the other.
Let's just say that we had a hypothetical situation, where all of the Striper states had a recreational limit of 1 fish per day, and slot limits, and the commercial limits were equally regulated.

So, in theory, we should have an explosion in the Striper population, but what are they going to be feeding on? What's going to sustain them if there's no bait.
The bait is being wiped out from every direction. . . .

It all has to go hand in hand.
Regulations are necessary, but in order for them to have an impact, everyone has to play by the same rules.

This can be done with Stripers since it's an American fish, not an International one. The Stripers live here, not anywhere else which means that we can control the fishery.

Maybe I have a strange outlook on things, or maybe I'm shell shocked beyond repair, but my opinion is this. . . .
The fisheries Internationally are in serious trouble, and nothing of any substance will be done about it until all of the countries in the world stop killing whales.

I'm not one of those "Save The Whales" guys. I'm just trying to make a point.
It's all about the mind set of conservation. When the whaling countries say to hell with culture and a thousand years of tradition, and stop killing the whales for "food", then and only then will I be able to feel confident about a true fisheries management.

As of now, there is no conservation to speak of. It's just a lot of words.
The game plan for the day is to rape the sea for every fish available.
Worry about it later. . . . .
Moog