Help me find answers to this scenario

[DZ]

Scenario: You’ve discovered a new and very effective method of taking large striped bass which requires you to add foreign/toxic substances into the natural bait you are using. Without adding them your secret bait will not work. Only problem is that these added substances can be very harmful, if not fatal, to bass, other fish, and wildlife that happen to eat your secret bait should it come off your hook or you happen to drop the bait overboard. Undersize bass or legal bass that you plan on releasing will also suffer or potentially perish if they've already ingested the bait. You’re now caught in a dilemma: do you continue to use this method to catch more bass than you ever have knowing that you might be causing collateral damage or by-kill to other wildlife, or do you give it up and go back to other less effective methods you’ve used in the past that produce less by-kill. What would you do?

[Hardcore]

I wouldn't used. no doubt in my mind.
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[PRBuzz]

Send the concept to VA/NC won't make a difference in by-kill!


No seriously, you said foreign/toxic substances therefore the EPA is sure to have restrictions on this chemical's use and if highly restrictive you could be liable(if caught) for some serious environmental damage?

[N.ShoreFisher]

The amount of times you said "toxic" makes me think you already know you probably shouldn't be using it. Also, you state that it has an extremely high kill rate in not only fish but other wildlife, so aren't you afraid of accidentally getting this stuff on you or in you? Would you eat a fish you killed with this method? I'm gonna say you SHOULD DEFINATELY STOP using this stuff. Dynamite is pretty effective at getting lots of fish, but that doesn't mean you should use that either, just saying. Just remember that you enjoy this fishery because others before you chose to do the right thing and stop using toxins and other harmful catching practices, leave something for your grandkids!

[tysdad115]

Is this strictly hypothetical? I would stop using it, but is there more to your question? Is there something you found that is commonly used which has these effects?
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[striperman36]

yo-yo

[afterhours]

I don't fish bait, but since we're talking hypotheticals- no way....

[Clammer]

Dz I,ll take a 5th on that ><>><

[MAKAI]

Seems like a no brainer to me.
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[Saltheart]

Loaded question....

[thefishingfreak]

I would find a way to rig my secret bait so when I hook a fish the secret juice is still attached to the line.
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[chefchris401]

Originally Posted by striperman36

yo-yo

Good answer! Was thinking the same.
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[Night Shift]

I catch my bait in the Merrimack. So yes, I do target big fish with toxic bait. I just never knew there was a connection.

[Night Shift]

But I would never Yo-yo

[tattoobob]

go back to other less effective methods you’ve used in the past

Or try to recreate a less toxic way of doing the same thing

[Redsoxticket]

Nauset beach
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[onecastmike2003]

3 way set up
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[Jackbass]

Definitely the YO YO and I don't fish from a boat so I have never used it
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[tlapinski]

I can't work in hypothecials and must know your secret bass-catching addative.

[DZ]

You guys are good. Yes I am referencing the YoYo technique. I just wanted to keep the description generic so as to just describe/show the potential harm/effect without naming the method. I could not come up with an analogy to some other fishing method that potentially could have the same effects.

The reason I posed this question was because the RI Striped Bass Advisory Panel (of which I’m a member) reviewed a request from RISAA’s Legislative Committee on Tuesday to enact a regulation that would alter how yoyo rigs can be constructed – basically stating that all foreign materials added to the bait (menhaden in this case) had to be attached to the anglers running line so that if the bait was lost, the foreign materials would be recovered. Massachusetts enacted a similar regulation last season.

Well, to make a long story shorter the Advisory Panel decided that there was not enough “scientific evidence” or “studies” to indicate that bass (and other fish, birds, mammals) were/could be harmed by having lead weights or sections of coat hanger in their digestive tracts. I tried to convince other members of the panel that even without scientific evidence; the yoyo method was essentially a wasteful/unethical method because of its potential by-kill effect. I anticipated that the R&R pinhook lobby would fight this regulation but I never anticipated that other recreational panel members and recreational fishermen that were present would have a problem with the proposed new yoyo regulation. By a vote of 8-1 (me being the 1) the proposed new regulation was sent back to the RI Dept of Marine Fisheries asking for more scientific evidence that ingested lead weights can contaminate bass and sections of coat hanger in the stomach can cause harm to fish/marine birds, etc. To say the least I was a little bit shocked but again this is Rhode Island and I’ve been in this game a long time so I’ve seen this before.

What I gathered at the meeting was that use of the yoyo method is apparently rampant in RI waters by both commercial rod and reel AND recreational fishermen – so much so that both groups argued that their catches would be severely affected by the proposed change. Sounds like many of these fishermen (both Comm and Rec) are very dependent on this method for their success rates.

BTW, looks as if the recreational and commercial striped bass regulations in RI will stay essentially the same. Only a slight change in commercial R&R seasonal start dates.

Thanks for all your responses.
DZ

[Sea Flat]

Like someone else said, I would try to experiment and find a way of fishing similar, but less toxic.

Everyone (including myself) is thinking that you are talking about yo-yoing and if you are there are already many other proven methods that will accomplish the same thing and you are able to do it less toxic.

If you are not talking about yo-yoing than the "toxin" you keep referring to, if it would be harmful to you if you ate the fish you catch with it I would absolutely stop fishing with it. My thought being that even if you were irresponsible, fished with this toxic method and threw the fish back, there is nothing to say that someone else, in a matter of minutes or hours, couldn't come by and catch that fish, keep it, and then ingest this toxin as well.

Lastly, isn't the fun of fishing the challenge? I can tell by your language that you know/think this is wrong. It really isn't a catch at all costs type of thing with you is it? A few less fish, but caught in a more challenging and safe way sounds a lot more rewarding to me.

Great question!!

[tlapinski]

Is there scientific data available which shows how long lead must be inside the stomach of a fish, bird or human before enough lead is absorbed into the bloodstream to become lethal?

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by DZ

Well, to make a long story shorter the Advisory Panel decided that there was not enough “scientific evidence” or “studies” to indicate that bass (and other fish, birds, mammals) were/could be harmed by having lead weights or sections of coat hanger in their digestive tracts. DZ

[Clammer]

JL
I was also @ the meeting & a commercial R/R ask the person from the DEm if the they or the state or anyone /anywhere has evidence to back this up .
She said of all the studies & testing that has been done .............. the only harmful chemical that is coming up in fish is mercury ..........zero on lead, iron, etc ?????????????

[JohnnySaxatilis]

Seriously?... Why don't you have those board members eat some coat hangers, spark plugs, or lead weights and see how they feel LOL

I think its safe to say it doesnt take a scientist to realize these foreign objects arent good for wildlife to eat

Not to mention the complications that will arise when people go to weigh in their 50+ pounder fish in a tournament, and 12oz of led comes rolling out of its belly! Happened in the MV derby a few years ago to Lev Woldyka I believe

[JohnR]

Interesting question -

IMO:
To the Hypothetical, no you shouldn't

To the YoYo, no you shouldn't unless you come up with a variation that does what the reg states - stay attached to line.

Dennis - If I was on the panel with you it would have been 7-2

[PaulS]

6 - 3

[RIJIMMY]

news flash! Jamming hooks into a fish's mouth, throat or gullet and then reeling it in by that attached body part can be potentially fatal to that fish!

Seriously though, by no means an expert but 6 yrs fishing regularly in a boat in Narr Bay I have seen only 2 boats yo-yo-ing, so not sure if its "rampant"

So all the hooks from lost eels, lost plugs, etc are not harmful to fish? Wont a fish swallow every lost eel with hooks on it, that cant be good for a fish?

[piemma]

There is yo-yoing happening in Narr Bay. Mostly on Brenton Reef during the Summer. I have only seen it twice in the upper Bay and both of the guys doing are comm.

Have I done it? Yup. Am I good at it? Only so-so. I would rather live-line than Yo-Yo not because of the ecological concerns but because I'd rather see a fish chase the bait around.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

news flash! Jamming hooks into a fish's mouth, throat or gullet and then reeling it in by that attached body part can be potentially fatal to that fish!

Seriously though, by no means an expert but 6 yrs fishing regularly in a boat in Narr Bay I have seen only 2 boats yo-yo-ing, so not sure if its "rampant"

So all the hooks from lost eels, lost plugs, etc are not harmful to fish? Wont a fish swallow every lost eel with hooks on it, that cant be good for a fish?

Yo-yo-ing isn't as much a problem inside the bay, but outside of it in the deeper water. Lots of it going on out there.

I think the concern is more that window sash weights and spark plugs aren't going to rust out in the salt water nearly as fast as hooks. Hooks rust out pretty fast, and as far as I know are much less dangerous than the materials being used to yo-yo.