MEETING NOTICE GROUNDFISH RECREATIONAL ADVISORY PANEL MEETING JAN 22

[MakoMike]

Agenda:
 Receive an overview of the Council’s Groundfish Priorities for 2015;
 Receive a presentation summarizing the recreational management measures in Draft Groundfish Framework Adjustment 53;
 Receive presentations on proactive AMs for FY 2015 for Gulf of Maine (GOM) haddock and GOM cod, including potential mechanisms to further reduce actual discard mortality of GOM cod (e.g., adoption of circle hooks);
 Discuss and recommend GOM haddock and GOM cod proactive AMs for FY 2015 to the Groundfish Committee;
 Discuss and recommend other related issues to the Groundfish Committee, as appropriate;
 Initiate discussion of recreational management measure process improvement – 2015 Council Priority;
 Hold elections for Chair and Vice Chair of the Recreational Advisory Panel; and
 Discuss other business, as necessary.

[MakoMike]

If anyone has any comments or suggestions I'd love to hear them. I'm sure that Pat would be interested as well.

[thefishingfreak]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

If anyone has any comments or suggestions I'd love to hear them. I'm sure that Pat would be interested as well.

Different regs for charter boats?

What is the circle hook adoption proposal?
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[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

What is the circle hook adoption proposal?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

At the last meeting it was suggested that only inline circle hooks be allowed to recreational fishermen to reduce released cod mortality.

[Rob Rockcrawler]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

At the last meeting it was suggested that only inline circle hooks be allowed to recreational fishermen to reduce released cod mortality.

If it helps its not a bad idea. When i do go cod fishing which isn't very often i use circle hooks. Maybe because i am too cheap to buy hooks when my eel hooks work fine.

[thefishingfreak]

If it is going to be a "bait" only reg? IE:"circle hooks must be used when using bait" like clams or squid, then It's kind of pointless and hard to enforce.
I don't think gut hooking cod while bait fishing is the main cause of release mortality. It's jig treble hooks in the side. I don't see how they could, or would ever implement a total ban on treble hooks or jigs.

What would make more sense *to lower release mortality* is lowering the size limit to something like what was done with commercial haddock, to reduce release mortality, to 16 inches.
lower minimum size= more fish go in the box= less dead discards trying to catch a keeper.
It's not uncommon for the catch to be 10:1 shorts to keepers.
If the size limit was lowered it would reduce throwback of shorts.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

If it is going to be a "bait" only reg? IE:"circle hooks must be used when using bait" like clams or squid, then It's kind of pointless and hard to enforce.
I don't think gut hooking cod while bait fishing is the main cause of release mortality. It's jig treble hooks in the side. I don't see how they could, or would ever implement a total ban on treble hooks or jigs.

What would make more sense *to lower release mortality* is lowering the size limit to something like what was done with commercial haddock, to reduce release mortality, to 16 inches.
lower minimum size= more fish go in the box= less dead discards trying to catch a keeper.
It's not uncommon for the catch to be 10:1 shorts to keepers.
If the size limit was lowered it would reduce throwback of shorts.

I wouldn't dismiss a ban on treble hooks so cavalierly. The goal is to prevent all recreational mortality on cod. There will be a ban on possession of cod by recreational anglers. The issue is how to reduce or eliminate release mortality on cod while recreationally fishing for haddock.

[Piscator]

There was a presentation given to the SBCBA by Marine Biologist studying catch and release post mortality of Cod....according to the scientists it's the treble hooks that have a huge impact on release mortality...that's according to science.
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[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by Piscator

There was a presentation given to the SBCBA by Marine Biologist studying catch and release post mortality of Cod....according to the scientists it's the treble hooks that have a huge impact on release mortality...that's according to science.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Got a cite to a paper that shows that? Good info but it might be more useful if I could provide a cite to the council in support.

[thefishingfreak]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

The issue is how to reduce or eliminate release mortality on cod while recreationally fishing for haddock.

Ahhh, I get ya.
Well yeah then the treble hook issue would be the way to go.
mandatory single hooks on jigs and circle hooks on bait.
you catch more haddock with circles anyways

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Got a cite to a paper that shows that? Good info but it might be more useful if I could provide a cite to the council in support.

I'll get you that info.
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[Piscator]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Got a cite to a paper that shows that? Good info but it might be more useful if I could provide a cite to the council in support.

Mike,

I received the following from one of the SBCBA Board members(paraphrased):

"On behalf of MassDMF, Steve Cadrin is in the process of preparing the paper associated with that study that will be over a year until it will be pier reviewed and published. I actually discussed the results of that study with Steve Cadrin and Doug K. yesterday. The RAP is aware of the study this was brought up the most recent RAP meeting. I plan on referring to that data (13-25% dead discards) next week at the RAP and I am sure others will do the same. My understanding is that NMFS is aware of this study but it is yet to be pier reviewed and published."

Looks like it still needs peer review and publishing but the results will be covered....

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by Piscator

Mike,

I received the following from one of the SBCBA Board members(paraphrased):

"On behalf of MassDMF, Steve Cadrin is in the process of preparing the paper associated with that study that will be over a year until it will be pier reviewed and published. I actually discussed the results of that study with Steve Cadrin and Doug K. yesterday. The RAP is aware of the study this was brought up the most recent RAP meeting. I plan on referring to that data (13-25% dead discards) next week at the RAP and I am sure others will do the same. My understanding is that NMFS is aware of this study but it is yet to be pier reviewed and published."

Looks like it still needs peer review and publishing but the results will be covered....

Thanks for that, I keep an ear out for it, when it comes up.

[BasicPatrick]

Based on some chat I had recently with science center personnel I "think" what we will hear at the RAP meeting is still no cod in 2015 BUT with a circle hook reg we may get Haddock bag limit up from 2 or three to four or five. Obviously every fish counts.

Hopefully some info will be released that we can share prior to the meeting.

I would like to hear if people think that it is worth giving up treble hooks on jigs (require single hooks) if we get another one or two haddock?

Same question as far as number of hooks...is it worth going to a one hook reg (teasers included) if we get one or two more fish?

Along with any credit for a gear regulation comes the risk that spot checks that reveal noncompliance turn into more catch and potential reductions in the next year. We had a few measured sub legal haddock cost us a sheet load of Haddock in the recent overage.

[thefishingfreak]

Question, is this for GOM only ?
What is it looking like for southern new england cod?
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[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

Question, is this for GOM only ?
What is it looking like for southern new england cod?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Right now its only for GOM cod, but that too could change.

[blue oyster]

I have not had the best luck with circle hooks on cod , they are all I use for striper fishing with live bait , but with cod I don't think they turn when they take the bait and I don't get the proper hook set in the side of mouth , but I also have not fished a great deal for cod , maybe others have had better luck .

[BasicPatrick]

Southern New England Cod fishing falls under the regulations for the Georges Bank Cod Stock and thus is not included in the current Gulf of Maine only regulation discussion.

This Summer there is a scheduled assessment of Georges Bank Cod and considering even fishermen think Georges Bank Cod are in worse shape than Gulf of Maine Cod it is likely we will see lots of action next year regarding that cod stock.

It would be nice if some science in the assessment indicated the southern New England fish are the once thought to be lost southern New England Cod Stock but that is probably me just dreaming. The Southern New England Fishery will likely be a hot topic a year from now.

[MikeToole]

I have caught a ton of cod over the last 50 years and I don't ever remember deep hooking a fish. So I don't think circle hooks will help much for recreational fishing to prevent unnecessary kills. But I would have no problem if circle hooks were required.

On the other hand going with single hooks on jigs would make a big difference in protecting fish in my opinion. Especially on small fish but really on all sizes treble hooks snag a lot of fish. If your fishing for haddock a single tube usually works better anyway.

[MakoMike]

Pat,
Congrats (or condolences ) on bring elected deputy chairman.

[thefishingfreak]

What's the news, other than the 4 haddock and zero cod recommendation.
How about circle hooks and season length?

[MakoMike]

Unofficial, as of the moment, but IMHO its good to go. Remember that this is the recommendation to the council and until they decide (most likely next Tuesday) nothing is "official."

Recreational Advisory Panel (RAP) Meeting
Danvers, MA
January 22, 2015

DRAFT MOTIONS AND CONSENSUS STATEMENTS

Motion 1: Bellavance/Tower
The RAP recommends that the outreach component to recreational anglers regarding changes to the Gulf of Maine (GOM) cod and haddock management measures, currently underway by the Greater Atlantic Regional Fisheries Office, continue and its impact on reducing non-compliance be considered when predicting recreational catches for FY 2015.
The motion passed by consensus without objection.

Motion 2: Paquette/Plaia
For the purposes of reducing discard mortality on GOM cod and haddock, the RAP recommends prohibiting the use of more than two hooks per line while fishing for groundfish in the GOM. Only inline circle hooks may be baited. When using a jig or artificial lure, only single point j-hooks may be used (e.g., no treble hooks). Teasers, feathers, flies etc. may be used but count toward the use of no more than two hooks per line.
The motion passed by a show of hands (12/0/0).

RAP Consensus Statements:
1) The RAP feels that directed GOM angler trips will decline substantially in FY 2015 under no possession for GOM cod and the anticipated low bag limit for GOM haddock for the recreational fishery. The RAP feels that the change in effort between FY 2014 and FY 2015 would be at least a 50% decline. Data provided in Table 12 (Document # 4b, NEFSC/SSB, Recreational Catch and Effort Tables, dated January 14, 2015) supports this concern as declines in effort between FY 2013 to FY 2014 from the GOM cod and GOM haddock wave 5 (September 1 to October 31) closure were estimated to be a 85% decline overall.

2) The RAP feels that under no possession of GOM cod that party, charter, and private vessels will be much less likely to fish in areas known to have aggregations of cod and less likely to use equipment to target cod. The ability of anglers to avoid cod is not taken into account in FY 2015 recreational catch projections. Therefore, the RAP feels that cod bycatch would be greatly reduced from what is projected for FY 2015.

3) Recreational discards were not considered in the allocation of GOM cod and haddock. Discard mortality estimates are being used in recreational catch projections to determine potential accountability measures (AMs). The RAP recommends that this concern be considered when implementing AMs.

Motion 3: Sterritt/DePersia
In light of no possession on cod and expected declines in effort (including consideration of Motions 1 and 2 and the above consensus statements), the RAP recommends that proactive AMs for GOM haddock in FY 2015 be a bag limit of at least 4 fish, a 17 inch minimum fish size, and closed seasons during wave 2 (March 1 to April 30) and wave 5 (September 1 to October 31).
The motion passed by a show of hands (11/1/0).

Motion 4: DePersia/Colby
The RAP recommends exploration of conservation equivalent proactive AMs to separate party/charter from the private modes in FY 2015 (e.g., Letter of Authorization (LOA) for charter boats to have a reduced season in exchange for an increased bag limit).
The motion passed by a show of hands (6/5/1).

Motion 5: DePersia\Twombly
The RAP requests that limited access in the party/charter fleet be addressed in the next available Groundfish action.
The motion passed by a show of hands (9/3/0).

[thefishingfreak]

How will this affect, if at all, the state regs?
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[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

How will this affect, if at all, the state regs?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Sorry Mike, I don't have a clue. Maybe Pat has some idea for MA.

[BasicPatrick]

The following opinions are for Gulf of Maine only.

As is with no simultaneous actions to improve discard mortality AND non-compliance, we would get zero cod and either zero or one haddock for 2015...or some crazy short season with a tiny haddock bag limit.

If, and only if the set of motions/statements Mike listed gets through the NEFMC this week, it "appears" that we will end up with zero cod, definitely 3 and likely 4 haddock with a season opening May 1 and closing last day of August. Sept & Oct will be closed.

I still have some confusion/questions on Nov-Dec (likely closed) but with assessments being done this summer, this fall will likely have management actions responsive to those assessments so for now I would assume all harvest of cod & haddock closed Nov-Dec.

As far as state waters, the only way the recommendations Mike listed can happen is if state waters match or are more conservative. If any state sticks with say 1 cod we have major issues and I could not even guess how that plays out.

[thefishingfreak]

Thanks for the hard work and the updates.
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