Ukraine

[JohnR]

Russia is probably coming this time. Each time RUS flocks to the border they bring more stuff and leave some behind before coming back. Does it happen now (possible) or in late Feb after the Beijing Olympics and Xi goes after Taiwan? Neither are outside the realm of possibility.

I am so glad that the adults are back in charge in the US because they told me this would not happen.

Interesting read; https://nationalinterest.org/feature...ne-time-198365

[Jim in CT]

will be very interesting.
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[nightfighter]

It will be just like watching January 6... We ALL knew it was coming and who was behind it all...

[wdmso]

Putin smells weakness in Washington, Europe, and Ukraine. There’s never been a better time to reclaim his “historic lands.” Will we let him?

Read The Whole article and saw nothing on their suggestion on how we won’t let Him. Except For the mention of moving Troops into Poland?

Putin knows NATO won’t respond with military force or we already would have moved Troops and equipment already

so what the answer to stop him if he wants. Force ? I know many conservatives think so , it’s that masculinity thing , but the Article levels out the previous administration. Putin didn’t start and plan this build up since January

I honestly think Putin was going to invade even if Trump won the election. due to Trump losing the election and with that lost went his free pass . He never Feared Trumps reaction. But now a NATO under a unified front he had to change gears . Being out of Afghanistan has only improved the US and NATO position to re deploy Troops and equipment…. And we have not treaty obligations with Ukraine

And yet Republicans and right media are beating the war drums and calling the new administration weak? But they praised Trump at ever turn for him not starting a new war! Trump was the first president since Ronald Reagan to not wage a new war. Kiss ass Pence made some very powerful claims. "I’m proud to report with just a few days left in our Administration, our Administration is the first in decades that did not get America into a new war. That’s Peace through Strength,"
Guess war against American voter don’t count

Here is a different opinion piece

We don’t need any conspiratorial analysis of Trump’s links with Russia to make this case. We just need look at the facts. Trump has been sympathetic to Putin in public statements for nearly a decade. As for Ukraine, Trump was so heedless of its security that he conditioned U.S. military aid on political favors in the famous 2019 phone call that resulted in his first impeachment.


The record of Trump’s fawning comments is embarrassingly long. In March 2014, he tweeted: “I believe Putin will continue to re-build the Russian Empire.” In August 2015, he told Fox News: “Frankly, I’d get along great with him.” In April 2016, he enthused: “We’re going to have a great relationship with Putin and Russia.” Most egregiously, Trump encouraged Russia’s meddling in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. (“Russia, if you’re listening …”) Even after the U.S. intelligence community presented him with hard intelligence about Russia’s sabotage in January 2017, Trump publicly minimized it.
At the Helsinki summit in 2018, Trump actually took Putin’s side on the election-meddling issue — over that of his intelligence advisers. (“I have President Putin; he just said it’s not Russia. I will say this: I don’t see any reason why it would be.”) Daniel Coats, then director of national intelligence, rebuffed Trump.



Trump supporters blame Biden for making Putin think America is in retreat. There’s no question that the world is worried about U.S. resolve after the chaotic Afghanistan withdrawal, but in the Ukraine crisis Biden has behaved with the right mix of firmness and diplomacy.
Putin and Trump share the same playbook. Defy and disrupt; plead innocence when confronted; negotiate through intimidation. They act like pro wrestlers with fake theatrical bluster, but the danger is all too real. The rule of law is a noble concept, but it needs to be enforced.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Trump’s links
Trump has
Trump was
Trump’s fawning
Trump encouraged
Trump publicly
Trump actually
Trump.
Trump supporters
Trump share

obviously trump's fault

[scottw]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

It will be just like watching January 6... We ALL knew it was coming and who was behind it all...

yes...the Illuminati

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by scottw

yes...the Illuminati

Your New World Order is going to come with a cost.... I will be on the side of America, first and always. Not sure where some here stand.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Your New World Order is going to come with a cost.... I will be on the side of America, first and always. Not sure where some here stand.

you heard there are two america's...right?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by scottw

you heard there are two america's...right?

When you have Tucker Carlson broadcasting Russian propaganda and all the Trumplicans listening, what would you expect.
The head of one party has spent the past five years pushing Putin’s agenda and his followers blindly obey.
Oh, it’s a hoax, we’ll soon see the results of TFG’s gaslighting and he’ll get another loan
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

It will be just like watching January 6... We ALL knew it was coming and who was behind it all...

Huh? Jan 6 was stupid but it was not the greatest threat to American Democracy since the Civil War. No matter what Rachel Maddow says.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Huh? Jan 6 was stupid but it was not the greatest threat to American Democracy since the Civil War. No matter what Rachel Maddow says.

^^^^THIS^^^^^

First time a coup/insurrection ended with a subway ride home for most involved.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Huh? Jan 6 was stupid but it was not the greatest threat to American Democracy since the Civil War. No matter what Rachel Maddow says.

Why is Rachel Maddow always the conservatives example ?

Funny most of people professing Jan. 6th wasn’t a threat to democracy and claiming the rest of America is over reacting. Are mostly conservatives funny how that works ..


I find it amazing at the lengths some go to rationalize to themselves and others , the events during the election after the election and the clear coordination by Republicans leaders to overturn the election are some how separate and apart to those who attacked the capital And just not an area of concern

[Pete F.]

Just stupid?

On Jan. 6, 2021, hundreds of supporters of former President Donald Trump broke through police lines and stormed the U.S. Capitol, forcing a panicked evacuation of top political leaders and threatening the country's peaceful transfer of power. The violent attack was an act of domestic terrorism, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Approximately 140 members of law enforcement suffered injuries in the attack, many at the hands of rioters wielding pepper spray, metal pipes and American flags fashioned into clubs. Those injuries included brain damage and crushed spinal discs. Five people ultimately died during or soon after the riot, though not all their deaths have been directly attributed to the events that day. One woman, Ashli Babbitt, was shot and killed by Capitol police. More than 1 million dollars of damage was done to the Capitol building.

In response to the attack, the Department of Justice launched what has become the largest criminal investigation in American history, involving scores of federal investigators and prosecutors across the country.
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[wdmso]

Election denier who circulated Jan. 6 PowerPoint says he met with Meadows at White House

I guess nothing to see
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Just stupid?

On Jan. 6, 2021, hundreds of supporters of former President Donald Trump broke through police lines and stormed the U.S. Capitol, forcing a panicked evacuation of top political leaders and threatening the country's peaceful transfer of power. The violent attack was an act of domestic terrorism, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Approximately 140 members of law enforcement suffered injuries in the attack, many at the hands of rioters wielding pepper spray, metal pipes and American flags fashioned into clubs. Those injuries included brain damage and crushed spinal discs. Five people ultimately died during or soon after the riot, though not all their deaths have been directly attributed to the events that day. One woman, Ashli Babbitt, was shot and killed by Capitol police. More than 1 million dollars of damage was done to the Capitol building.

In response to the attack, the Department of Justice launched what has become the largest criminal investigation in American history, involving scores of federal investigators and prosecutors across the country.
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Up to your usual tricks--John didn't say JUST stupid. And, yeah, he is right. It was stupid. And he is right about it being "not the greatest threat to American Democracy since the Civil War. No matter what Rachel Maddow says."

But it sure looks like the Dems are trying to make it look it was.

And nice slide out of the thread subject into your favorite stuff.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Up to your usual tricks--John didn't say JUST stupid. And, yeah, he is right. It was stupid. And he is right about it being "not the greatest threat to American Democracy since the Civil War. No matter what Rachel Maddow says."

But it sure looks like the Dems are trying to make it look it was.

And nice slide out of the thread subject into your favorite stuff.

It’s important stuff and what happened will come out.


Agreeing (and ordering subordinates) to plan and participate in an effort to obstruct the vote certification
Encouraging the Proud Boys to believe they are his army
Personally sowing the Big Lie about voter fraud to lead supporters to believe Trump has been robbed of his rightful election win
Asking subordinates and Republican politicians to lie about the vote to encourage supporters to feel they were robbed
Encouraging surrogates and campaign staffers to fund buses to make travel to DC easier
Using the January 6 rally to encourage as many people as possible to come to DC
Applauding violence in advance of January 6 and tacitly encouraging it on the day
Recruiting members of Congress to raise challenges to the vote count
Asking members of Congress to delay evacuation even as the rioters entered the building, heightening the chance of direct physical threat (and likely contributing to Ashli Babbitt’s death)
Asking Mike Pence to do something unconstitutional, then targeting him after he refused, virtually ensuring he would be personally threatened
Possibly muddling the line of command on which civilian agency would coordinate response, ensuring there would be none
Possibly taking steps to delay any Guard response at the Capitol
Possibly ignoring immediate requests from help from leaders of Congress
DOJ knows exactly what happened with Trump’s requests that DOJ serve as the civilian agency to lead response on Janaury 6, and some of the witnesses have given transcribed interviews to Congress and probably DOJ IG. Some details about which there remain questions — who delayed the National Guard — would be available to subpoena. The big question, and it’s a big one, is what kind of communications Trump had with members of Congress to ensure there was maximal conflict and physical risk on that day.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Just stupid?


American flags fashioned into clubs.


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[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Huh? Jan 6 was stupid but it was not the greatest threat to American Democracy since the Civil War. No matter what Rachel Maddow says.

John, I am surprised at your assessment of my post. It did not mention any media member by name, nor did it give such a magnanimous label to the event... The point was that you and I knew there was a confrontation of sorts coming on January 6. We also knew what type of group was coming and who was encouraging them to travel there. And if I knew, why wasn't there a beefed up presence of "security" to support the Capitol Police, who in the end, were the ones who took the hit.

In the Ukraine, the world watched as Putin directed his troops to the border in numbers that would easily support a successful invasion of the country. While I am reading reports of their pullback by the thousands this morning, it does not change the fact that we know who is in charge of those troops and what their intent was meant to be.

Technology has allowed us to see these events in real time. Both appear to be over, but we watched history from our homes as it happened, and were powerless to change or stop it. Yet we could all see the build up in the days and weeks ahead of their happening. Which is the bigger threat? More to the point, which can we have the greater effect on to change the course of history going forward?

Lastly, stupid is too timid, weak, and unassertive a word to describe what we bore witness to on January 6. It certainly doesn't cover the actions I saw by zealots trying to stop the Congress from doing their work in ratifying the Electoral College process. The division in our country is real. But this was a very wrong way to effect change or even gain clear thinking supporters. If anything, it deepened the divide and pushed away many lifelong republican supporting voters.

[wdmso]

I’ve done a search with Rachel maddow January 6th the greatest threat to American Democracy since the Civil War

All I found was

Right-wing erupts after Biden declares Jan. 6 “worst attack on democracy since Civil War"
One right-wing website angrily "fact-checked" the claim as "false"


Biden ripped for calling Capitol riots ‘worst attack on our democracy since the Civil War

https://nypost.com/2021/04/29/biden-...the-civil-war/

And as if on cue the right can’t accept the truth and this is how they respond.. with their hero Glenn Greenwald .. he is a local favorite of some here

January 6 was worse than 9/11? Or Pearl Harbor?” prominent journalist Glenn Greenwald asked of the president’s claim to Congress Wednesday night used as apparent proof that he was leading the US out of crisis.

“Or the Oklahoma City bombing? Or the dismantling of civil liberties in the name of the Cold War and War on Terror?

“Or the mass surveillance program secretly and illegally implemented by NSA aimed at US citizens?” continued Greenwald, referring to the Edward Snowden expose of government documents he first reported.

“How about the War on Drugs, mass incarceration and Jim Crow? Were those worse ‘attacks on democracy’ than the 3-hour Capitol riot on Jan. 6?

Seems mr Greenwald missed the point! of all that he mentioned the civil war was started by other Americans against the United States of American , and what happened on Jan 6th was an attack by Americans against the United States of American ! In an attempt change an election with the express support and coordination and cooperation of the former POTUS some in his administration and sitting members of Congress ..

All whom refuse to testify or have filed lawsuits against the Jan 6th commission…. To obstruct their findings …. America 1st my arse

Even President Donald Trump said: "If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?".

[detbuch]

John, apparenly, your thread title should have been "Ukraine--or Jan. 6 if You'ld Rather."

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Seems mr Greenwald missed the point! of all that he mentioned the civil war was started by other Americans against the United States of American , and what happened on Jan 6th was an attack by Americans against the United States of American ! In an attempt change an election with the express support and coordination and cooperation of the former POTUS some in his administration and sitting members of Congress ..

All whom refuse to testify or have filed lawsuits against the Jan 6th commission…. To obstruct their findings …. America 1st my arse

Even President Donald Trump said: "If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?".

Yup
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Even President Donald Trump said: "If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?".

But Trump is a liar.

So what do you think about what's going on in Ukraine?

[scottw]

hope they got stress balls for Christmas....

[detbuch]

Is it possible, as some are saying, that Russia doesn't need to nor has the desire to invade Ukraine? That the conflict is not really between Ukraine and Russia, but between Ukraine and two of its territories, Donetsk and Luhansk. That those two have been trying to negotiate its disputes, as required per the Minsk accords, with Ukraine, but Ukraine is not relenting. And that Russia has been asking Biden to intervene and convince Ukraine to settle its internal problems, but no US intervention has occurred, so Donetsk and Luhansk are threatening to break away from the Unkrainian federation and asking Russia to accept them. And Russia is saying OK. So Russia doesn't have to invade. Just sit back and take them. It may show troops at the border to signal that it will back the breakaway regions.

Any opinions on that?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Is it possible, as some are saying, that Russia doesn't need to nor has the desire to invade Ukraine? That the conflict is not really between Ukraine and Russia, but between Ukraine and two of its territories, Donetsk and Luhansk. That those two have been trying to negotiate its disputes, as required per the Minsk accords, with Ukraine, but Ukraine is not relenting. And that Russia has been asking Biden to intervene and convince Ukraine to settle its internal problems, but no US intervention has occurred, so Donetsk and Luhansk are threatening to break away from the Unkrainian federation and asking Russia to accept them. And Russia is saying OK. So Russia doesn't have to invade. Just sit back and take them. It may show troops at the border to signal that it will back the breakaway regions.

Any opinions on that?

State Dept has issued an advisory for Americans not to travel to Ukraine due to an impending further invasion threat by Russia.
Americans should be “aware of reports that Russia is planning for significant military action against Ukraine” and that security could deteriorate
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

State Dept has issued an advisory for Americans not to travel to Ukraine due to an impending further invasion threat by Russia.
Americans should be “aware of reports that Russia is planning for significant military action against Ukraine” and that security could deteriorate
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Any opinion on the Ukraine internal conflict being peacefully resolved between Ukraine and its dissident regions, Donetsk and Luhansk, or is that baloney?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Any opinion on the Ukraine internal conflict being peacefully resolved between Ukraine and its dissident regions, Donetsk and Luhansk, or is that baloney?

Are you really a Russian troll or do you just play one on the internet?

You do know that Russia already invaded Ukraine in 2014 and still occupies Ukrainian territory?
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Are you really a Russian troll or do you just play one on the internet?

You do know that Russia already invaded Ukraine in 2014 and still occupies Ukrainian territory?
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What's to stop Russia from occupying more?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

But Trump is a liar.

So what do you think about what's going on in Ukraine?

I made my case on Ukraine

Trump is a liar … ps who held up the Ukraine arms . That conservatives say the so desperately need .. to get dirt on Biden. Trump the liar

Putin saw his free Ukraine free pass disappear when Biden took office and the US mended or started to mend NATO after 4 years of Trump

Just read the headlines.

the sudden decision to remove 9,500 U.S. troops from Germany by September, a move that sent shockwaves through NATO.


Trump wanted to leave NATO

So now Putin is trying to exploit a fractured NATO before Biden can heal the wounds , But Iam sure that’s all fake news
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

I made my case on Ukraine

Trump is a liar … ps who held up the Ukraine arms . That conservatives say the so desperately need .. to get dirt on Biden. Trump the liar

Putin saw his free Ukraine free pass disappear when Biden took office and the US mended or started to mend NATO after 4 years of Trump

Just read the headlines.

the sudden decision to remove 9,500 U.S. troops from Germany by September, a move that sent shockwaves through NATO.


Trump wanted to leave NATO

So now Putin is trying to exploit a fractured NATO before Biden can heal the wounds , But Iam sure that’s all fake news
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Actually, Trump sent more arms to NATO than Obama did, and he did not pull out of NATO, and he persuaded more NATO members to pony up the money they owed and so strengthened NATO. Putin had a free pass to invade and take Crimea under Obama and a weak NATO.

So, what's to stop Putin from invading Ukraine now.