November Bass run is a myth nowadays

[Mr. Sandman]

Well I know a lot of you think the fishing is good now and will last thru November. IMO, That *was* true in the 80's but (again IMO) these "new" fish (post crisis) don't seem to like it much here in Nov. I think it is pretty much over...for bass anyway. Time to break out that Tog'in gear! Sure you have a few more weeks to hook up with a big fish, I do not argue with that but having fished for them each season until (and in many year well past) Thanksgiving I see fewer and fewer fish hanging out that late anymore.

I recall fishing BI in sub arctic conditions and still catching bass and even blues into december.

What has changed? Is it the lack of bait? What is your take why the past fall runs have been so weak and why do they spit so soon? With rumors of big fish to the north of us will this year be different?

[JohnR]

Maybe most of them run well outside... We'll see...

[Thumb-Burner]

..... as a matter of fact, I'm a rookie all the way around...

But, could this be related at all to the fact that the fish are showing up now again (only in about the last 4 or 5 years) in big numbers in DEC and January on the beaches of the outerbanks of NC?

Sounds goofy, and again i'm pretty much clueless, but is it possible that they have "learned" to go south again...

it would be interesting to see if the time they started "leaving earlier there" coincides when they started showing up at all again here...


???

[Hooper]

Originally posted by JohnR
Maybe most of them run well outside... We'll see...

Good thought John.... Here's some credence to that...

A good friend of mine is a commercial tuna fisherman, and he was taking 40lb bass east of the BB Bouy in recent years by fishing fresh herring on the bottom in 300' of water.

At that time (certainly not now!) there were tons of ocean herring to be found on the bottom, so naturally the bass went where the bait could be found easily. Apparently, these stripers have never been told that 300' is "too deep" for stripers or that 35 miles east of Nantucket is really an"offshore" fishery, not inshore!

So these big bass were taking tuna baits on the fall tuna grounds before the bluefins could get them. Think about that, 35 miles offshore in 300' of water, 40 lb bass..... The ocean can be an amazing place sometimes.

Funny, today there isn't a decent pod of ocean herring to be found anywhere offshore.... and not surprisingly, there are few tunafish to be found as well.

-Hooper

[Mr. Sandman]

Hooper
wow...that is amazing. Maybe these fish are smarter then we thought? 300' man!...thats a lot of wire line!

[Joe]

I think you’re right on about your assessment of recent November fishing. The odds for a keeper are better than during April and there are fewer fishermen, but I can’t remember the last good November we had for big fish. The good Novemebers of years past were characterized by favorable conditions coupled with the presence of large sand eels or mature menhaden. (Remember we had a streak of mild autumns and winters during the 1980’s – I’ve found that fall fishing without favorable conditions is terrible.)

What's weird is that on one hand we have people claiming that the bass are in trouble, while we simultaneously have winter fisheries for striped bass increasing, along with a very healthy fishery in the Gulf of Maine. At the same time, New Jersey has had some big fish spring runs the last three years.

Local fishermen may be complaining, but biologists will tell you that a species expanding its range and the time it spends throughout its range it is a good thing – a sign that they are competing against their own numbers.

I lean towards the assessment that the fish are out there, just not here. My own hypothesis is that for us to expect big fish in the fall we need, like before, some kind of big forage coupled with favorable weather - and we have not had either of those conditions met in a long time.

[Flaptail]

Last year was a turning point for me. I have for the last twenty years enjoyed November fishing on the Cape and Islands ( Elizabeths). Last fall was a decided drop from the previous ones. Why? I have my theories but since I am not a scientist, fisheries biologist, Icthyologist I will keep most of them to my self. I am very, very concerned about the future of Striped Bass though. My concern is the lack of bait both large ( pogies) and small ( grass shrimp etc,) and anywhere in between. I have been raving for years about seals and thier un-controlled population growth. Yesterday morning as I was walking off of a Truro beach I met a nice guy named Dave Landry. Pleasentries aside he mentioned how he had only one fish on in the morning and that fish was grabbed and taken by a seal as he was fighting it. An hour before that My bud LaPorte had a seal eat his needlefish. On the outer beach the fishing, except for relatively few instances, has been about as bad as it got in the early eighties.

For instance, the year before along the Elizabeths we did not see seals in Lackeys until mid-November. And on the Sunday after Thanksgiving with the air temprerature at 26 degrees and spitting snow we took numbers of bass along Naushon, Pasque and Nashawena. Bassmaster was with us on this trip. This year with 67 degree water we had fifteen in Lackeys on September 17th. Every fall I fish Fisher's Island , New York in November up to the week after Thanksgiving and always catch fish. Last year they were gone for the most part by Columbus day. They say that there are loads off bass just offshore along the outer Cape and boatmen have benn doing well with them all season. I know this to be fact having experienced it myself. There are miles of sandeels and herds of bass out there moving south along the coast. But they are not and will not come into the shore for fear of the seals. This years beach fishing reminds me of the canal in 1982. I fished several nights a week there for May, June and September and October and caught two bass all season in the ditch. That's right just two, inumerable Bluefish but two bass.

Then it was reproduction hazards in Chesapeake now it's predation and competition for forage species by the fish themselves, marine mammals (seals), commercial pogie fishing and thus the lack of sustainable numbers of those forage species to sustain the bass.

Something has to be done. The chain reaction to all this will come about as the Sporstman's dollars spent in travelling here will dwindle, an important factor in the outer capes economy at the seasons end. No house rentals, no motel rentals, no visits to gas stations, restaurants and tackle shops, convience stores etc,.

I feel no remorse when I see a dead seal or hear about one washing up on the beach dead of mysterious circumstances. The seals have killed the great inshore surf fishing at Monomoy and they are quietly and efficiently killing the rest of the surf fishery along the outer Cape. The bounty that was once held on a seal was there to protect the inshore fisheries that made up the economy of the cape in the years before the marime mammal protection act. That economy was driven by the inshore cod, flounder, mackerel, herring and Striped Bass fhisheries. Those inshore stocks, important to the commercial fishing fleets of the outer Cape is once again being menaced by a junk science protection act without regard for the shared resource and the livelihood of those involved in those resources.

Right now I say without any reprehension that a good seal is a dead seal. There are way too many for the food resources at hand and hopefully the lack of or wiping out of the forage resources will start to affect thier population by forcing them to move to better grounds to the north or causing a blight brought on by poor nutrition with the lack of forage needed to sustain a herd in the number of over 6000 individual seals.

Yeah I can hear it now that seals have a right to live here as well. That may be true but we humans, the bass, the mackerel, the flounders and sandeels and codfish have a right to the share of the resource as well and right now we are on the losing end of that deal. It's seals 80% and us and the other creatures 20%.

[tlapinski]

the more you guys say there are no fish in november, the less people i have to share them with. keep it up.

[Mr. Sandman]

Originally posted by Flaptail
Yeah I can hear it now that seals have a right to live here as well. ...

You will not hear that from me! Saw 6 yesterday as large as a volkswagon...these things eat bass like a snikers bars. Only once did I have one attack a bass while fighting it, 2 years ago, in the spring...took a big bite out of the back of the fish and ripped half of its skin off.

We either have to encourage the Great White Shark to feed along our beaches OR open the seal season again. I fee the sam way about the cormorant as well...we need to thin them down!!

Right now Nomans is covered in seals...just this week. A bass doesn't stand a chance.

Gee with all the seals inshore, and no decent food for them....maybe thats enough reason to make the run offshore now.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Amen Toby, Amen...
Dec 3rd last year
Dec 7th the year before....

[Hooper]

are the midwater trawlers which are decimating the herring and menhaden populations. Ask any commercial groundfisheman or tuna guy and they will point to that as a the primary reason why times are tough offshore.

With what these trawlers get paid for their herring, next to nothing, they need to catch a bazillion pounds to make any money off of them.

Here's an interesting link to Captain Bruce Peter's website. Bruce is a top charter skipper in Chatham, MA and I am sure at least some of you know him better than I. He knows his stuff and his website is very interesting. Here's are some of his thoughts on the trawlers and the bycatch problem:

http://www.sportfishingcapecod.com/r...m?ReportID=192

[Codfather4]

I dont know what you guys are talking about when it comes to November fishing. I fish the south shore of massachusetts, which is roughly 20 miles south of boston. So the water is usually cold up here. And last year I caught my last striper around oct.20 and this year we are still catching bluefish and its the 18th. I know that I haven't caught a november striper yet, but I do know that they are there in the cape and rhode island due to the water being a lot warmer. It is just that people want to quit to early. They get skunked a couple of times and they assume the bass are gone.

[rwilhelm]

Last November was awful for me. I caught a couple of schoolies in about 6 trips. I think the key is what the water temp is, it seems that most of the bass leave when the temp is about 55.

[Mr. Sandman]

You guys have not caught squat in DEC in YEARS! except maybe some holdovers which aren't very big and shows you are more desprate then I thought. You might be fishing but you ain't catchin anything decent.

Nov fishing has been poor now for 10 years. Last year was pretty decent surf year over all, not great but not horrible.... How many large bass did you catch last season after Nov 1?

I don't think it is the fisherman that quit early it is the fish.

Please post a photo of all your November and December fish this season....when (if) you catch them!

[Krispy]

Please post a photo of all your November and December fish this season.

That'll be tough, since its only October

[RIJIMMY]

I agree with Rwilhem, it was like someone turned off a switch last year in Nov.

[tlapinski]

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
Nov fishing has been poor now for 10 years. Last year was pretty decent surf year over all, not great but not horrible.... How many large bass did you catch last season after Nov 1?

plenty. they were many 20#+ in catchable consistant #'s into november. just because YOU haven't done well does not mean everyone else has too.

my July SUCKED this year, does that mean yours did too?

[Nebe]

Originally posted by tlapinski
my July SUCKED this year, does that mean yours did too?

nope
these past few weeks though....

[Mr. Sandman]

T.lapinski,
It must be me then.


I'm looking forward to hearing about all the big ones you get this Nov and Dec.

[RIROCKHOUND]

OK... I'll admit, my Dec bass are generally small, but well into Nov last year there were decent fish around so.co., took more work than Oct, but they were around.....

[Canalman]

Redcrbbr and I caught fish up to November 20th last year and most of the fish were in the 15 to 25# range and that was here in Mass, no telling what you could do at BI. So I say dont give up. Another indication that it is by no means over is the fact that there are still abies in Canal, and bass and blues were still being caught with regularity in Maine as of last week. You can read your books or knit or whatever you do in the offseason, but I'm fishin' until the last bass passes, like I do every year. Good luck guys!

-Dave

[Fish_Eye]

Captain Gary Corsetti was fishing the Race in NY today while being filmed by Trevor Gowdy. The first fish was 58 pounds and that was followed by a fish that pegged the 60 pound scale. Last week another one of his sports took a 57. The big fish are obviously around, but in select locations.

Interestingly enough they're not only in the deep, swift water of the race. I filmed 40's, 50's and a BIG SOW at Cuttyhunk last week...in little current, in 8 feet of water. The biggest fish was in under 6 feet of water only a few yards from shore.

Now if weather will only be kind enough to let us fish, I think we'll see some big fish being taken right through November and perhaps December.

Don't get me wrong, I think there are problems in Paradise and we need to be very involved in legislation that protects menhaden, herring and other key prey items.

[Water Treater]

Where is "BI" ?

[179]

Last season I landed my last nice bass sometime in mid-Nov from shore, I also heard of others landed past Thanksgiving. During this time we had many runs of micro fish also.

[Canalman]

"BI" = Block Island

[Hooper]

Originally posted by Fish_Eye
Captain Gary Corsetti was fishing the Race in NY today while being filmed by Trevor Gowdy. The first fish was 58 pounds and that was followed by a fish that pegged the 60 pound scale. Last week another one of his sports took a 57. The big fish are obviously around, but in select locations.

Now that is something I'd like to see, that is some kind of luck. Three fish over 55 pounds?!

Don't foregt too guys that location can be huge. We have guys here from New Hampshire to New York. November can be great for some of us and rotten for others.

[Gloucester2]

I think Corsetti would say luck had very little to do with his success . . . I've never fished with him but people's who's opinion I respect (FWW) have, and they say he is one of the best.

[JohnR]

Originally posted by Water Treater
Where is "BI" ?

Barneget Inlet

[KJLane]

Wow. There were 40 and 50 pound fish off Cuttyhunk last week. Apparently those fish wanted nothing to do with my live eels!

[Krispy]

Where is "BI" ?

British Isles